Cuomo aide admits they hid nursing home data so feds wouldn’t find out

[Buffarukus]

40 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The triumph of Politics and Ego over Conscience

 

1) NYS got dealt a tough hand

2) Cuomo made some tough decisions, I'll give him that, although too late

3) Some of his decisions were understandable in the context of the early pandemic, but incorrect from a public-health standpoint

4) Unclear how many deaths in nursing homes resulted from this policy, with widespread community infection and poor infection control policies/lack of PPE meaning many aides caring for the elderly unwittingly spread infection.  Lord knows there are enough nursing home deaths in states that did NOT have this policy

5) Be that as it may, the honorable course of action after the fact, is transparency.  Put the data out there, support investigation, let the chips fall

6) If the aides and subordinates do not follow that course of action, the buck falls on the desk of the man in charge.

 

All that said actions can be despicable and immoral and not illegal.  Hopefully with the "prison on the table" comment at this point, you aren't one of those who respond in other cases calling for investigation prior to "rush to judgement"

 

 

 

i understand what your saying and get tough decisions have to be made but from the very beginning objective number 1 above all else should have been

 

protect the vulnerable.

 

even a common flu could be deadly to elderly so no new or extra info was needed to understand that introducing this to the elderly let alone FORCING by mandate was a not questionable mistake. it was a demented enforcement. not only that, they incentivized it by offering nursing homes $5000 dollars per person so young people were pushed in as well. id love to understand what lunatic science backed this decision. 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Buffarukus

[Hapless Bills Fan]

21 minutes ago, Buffarukus said:

i understand what your saying and get tough decisions have to be made but from the very beginning objective number 1 above all else should have been

protect the vulnerable.

 

I agree and understand, but no Western nation worked on an effective public health strategy for that.

 

For example, people who became ill but were not sick enough to require hospital admission were regularly sent home - with no regard for their living situation.  In Italy and in Spain and yes, in NYC and Boston many of these people lived in multigenerational households with Grandparents or elder Aunts, often with 1 bathroom and minimal ability to isolate.  And those people became ill in turn, and many died.  

 

Obviously the best strategy from a public health viewpoint would have been to adopt a quarantine where infected younger people were sent to quarantine facilities where they were supported with food, fever medications, and if needed IV and oxygen until they were no longer infectious, and likewise - where infected residents of congregate living were sent to specialized nursing homes or temporary hospitals where they could recover.

 

Can you imagine the outcry that would have occurred if our government tried to mandate this?  BUT MAH FREEDOMS!!!!!!!

 

The other part of course is immediately focusing testing on residents in such facilities and their caregivers, using proven strategies such as pooled testing to extend testing capacity, and ensuring adequate PPE supplies and infection control training.  A lot could have been done, but wasn't.

 

Many are suggesting that the Central Park hospital or the ship Comfort could have been turned to this purpose, and that's true - but recall that initially, these facilities weren't even accepting Covid patients at all!

 

Quote

even a common flu could be deadly to elderly so no new or extra info was needed to understand that introducing this to the elderly let alone FORCING by mandate was a not questionable mistake. it was a demented enforcement. not only that, they incentivized it by offering people $5000 dollars per person so young people were pushed in as well. id love to understand what lunatic science backed this decision.

 

I think it's a mistake to look at things outside the context that was present at the time the mandate was issued, with hospitals overflowing with critically ill patients and more coming in by the minute.  Was it a bad decision, Yes!  Was it made in the context of desperate times and harsh measures, Also Yes.

 

It's pretty clear from states which did NOT have this mandate that covid-19 eventually entered most nursing homes (either through staff, or through a patient sent back from hospitalization for another cause) and took a horrible toll, so it will seldom be a clear cut thing.  Missouri, for example, never had such a mandate and yet to my personal knowledge a care home in St Louis where a friend's father resided had 60 of 90 residents fall ill with Covid in late April-May.  29 of those 60 died. 

 

At one point over the summer, every single one of the 6 nursing homes in the rural MO county where my spouse grew up had Covid infections, and many died.  Over the summer.

 

Things are seldom as clear cut as people like to paint them to be.  And that's all I'll say.

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

22 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I agree and understand, but no Western nation worked on an effective public health strategy for that.

 

For example, people who became ill but were not sick enough to require hospital admission were regularly sent home - with no regard for their living situation.  In Italy and in Spain and yes, in NYC and Boston many of these people lived in multigenerational households with Grandparents or elder Aunts, often with 1 bathroom and minimal ability to isolate.  And those people became ill in turn, and many died.  

 

Obviously the best strategy from a public health viewpoint would have been to adopt a quarantine where infected younger people were sent to quarantine facilities where they were supported with food, fever medications, and if needed IV and oxygen until they were no longer infectious, and likewise - where infected residents of congregate living were sent to specialized nursing homes or temporary hospitals where they could recover.

 

Can you imagine the outcry that would have occurred if our government tried to mandate this?  BUT MAH FREEDOMS!!!!!!!

 

The other part of course is immediately focusing testing on residents in such facilities and their caregivers, using proven strategies such as pooled testing to extend testing capacity, and ensuring adequate PPE supplies and infection control training.  A lot could have been done, but wasn't.

 

Many are suggesting that the Central Park hospital or the ship Comfort could have been turned to this purpose, and that's true - but recall that initially, these facilities weren't even accepting Covid patients at all!

 

 

I think it's a mistake to look at things outside the context that was present at the time the mandate was issued, with hospitals overflowing with critically ill patients and more coming in by the minute.  Was it a bad decision, Yes!  Was it made in the context of desperate times and harsh measures, Also Yes.

 

It's pretty clear from states which did NOT have this mandate that covid-19 eventually entered most nursing homes (either through staff, or through a patient sent back from hospitalization for another cause) and took a horrible toll, so it will seldom be a clear cut thing.  Missouri, for example, never had such a mandate and yet to my personal knowledge a care home in St Louis where a friend's father resided had 60 of 90 residents fall ill with Covid in late April-May.  29 of those 60 died. 

 

At one point over the summer, every single one of the 6 nursing homes in the rural MO county where my spouse grew up had Covid infections, and many died.  Over the summer.

 

Things are seldom as clear cut as people like to paint them to be.  And that's all I'll say.

 

Lots of point agree Hapless. Gotta always protect the older people the most from this virus.  For me do that number 1 goal to protect those out. Fell so badly those passed away rip thoughts and prayers to everyone.   

[dpberr]

I don't know what NY has in regards to recall or "impeachment" of governors, but I'd offer what Cuomo did is a really good reason to do it.  That's a serious dereliction of duty to your citizens IMO.  I understand that any public servant that finds time to write a book during a crisis is no great public servant to begin with.  

 

I doubt he's the only one that did it.  In PA, the governor did the same thing by pushing COVID+ patients into nursing homes and PA's coronavirus data is a complete disaster and the state fights tooth and nail on FOIA requests.  The state's former health secretary, the one the media can't heap enough praise upon, pulled her own mother out of a nursing home before that policy she recommended, was enacted. 

 

The problem in PA is that she's now working in the Biden administration and the term-limited governor is serving out the last two years of his term.  

 

I think when the dust settles, that decision to send those COVID+ patients into nursing homes is going to be considered one of the worst, or perhaps the worst, action the government took in response to the pandemic, even more egregious than the arbitrary use of lockdowns and business restrictions.  

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by dpberr

[Buffarukus]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I agree and understand, but no Western nation worked on an effective public health strategy for that.

 

For example, people who became ill but were not sick enough to require hospital admission were regularly sent home - with no regard for their living situation.  In Italy and in Spain and yes, in NYC and Boston many of these people lived in multigenerational households with Grandparents or elder Aunts, often with 1 bathroom and minimal ability to isolate.  And those people became ill in turn, and many died.  

 

Obviously the best strategy from a public health viewpoint would have been to adopt a quarantine where infected younger people were sent to quarantine facilities where they were supported with food, fever medications, and if needed IV and oxygen until they were no longer infectious, and likewise - where infected residents of congregate living were sent to specialized nursing homes or temporary hospitals where they could recover.

 

Can you imagine the outcry that would have occurred if our government tried to mandate this?  BUT MAH FREEDOMS!!!!!!!

 

The other part of course is immediately focusing testing on residents in such facilities and their caregivers, using proven strategies such as pooled testing to extend testing capacity, and ensuring adequate PPE supplies and infection control training.  A lot could have been done, but wasn't.

 

Many are suggesting that the Central Park hospital or the ship Comfort could have been turned to this purpose, and that's true - but recall that initially, these facilities weren't even accepting Covid patients at all!

 

 

I think it's a mistake to look at things outside the context that was present at the time the mandate was issued, with hospitals overflowing with critically ill patients and more coming in by the minute.  Was it a bad decision, Yes!  Was it made in the context of desperate times and harsh measures, Also Yes.

 

It's pretty clear from states which did NOT have this mandate that covid-19 eventually entered most nursing homes (either through staff, or through a patient sent back from hospitalization for another cause) and took a horrible toll, so it will seldom be a clear cut thing.  Missouri, for example, never had such a mandate and yet to my personal knowledge a care home in St Louis where a friend's father resided had 60 of 90 residents fall ill with Covid in late April-May.  29 of those 60 died. 

 

At one point over the summer, every single one of the 6 nursing homes in the rural MO county where my spouse grew up had Covid infections, and many died.  Over the summer.

 

Things are seldom as clear cut as people like to paint them to be.  And that's all I'll say.

 

in that regard i understand more clearly what your saying.

 

 in my opinion a policy to force the sick into those facilities made no sense then, and none now which is why certain people were declaring they wanted investigations early last year and were ignored by those in the media, until now. there is a picture of a sheet on a overpass "cuomo killed my mother" as early as may. again this was incentivised! the nursing homes were used as quarantine facilities you speak of, which is the worst possible selection that anyone at any time regardless of situation could choose. if there was some proof that there was no other facility that would not accept 5000 dollars to house these people together then i guess he had no other choice, but i don't think that is true and his coverup may mean we may never know. to chalk this up to desperate times desperate measures or ignorance is a mistake. i have no professional understanding of viruses and without hindsight i could say that i questioned that decision, as did many others. i can't prove it but there is a basic level of understanding that was as dangerous as it gets when dealing with a pandemic that was obviously killing the elderly at high rates.

 

when it comes to asymptomatic people allowed to go home this is different from the topic of forcing them into nursing homes. this is still the practice of today so advising them to stay away from vulnerable or offering a alternative, like the ship or center as temporary quarantine places for people with "one bathroom" ect ect SHOULD be the practice, regarless if they knew if it spreads. 5000 dollars pays for alot of options other then nursing homes regardless. you choose to expose a vulnerable family member thats on your conscience. no forcing, no "mah freedoms" and no hindsight required to keep people from spreading. but they FORCED people from OUTSIDE nursing homes to go there as well and the homes were happy to take the money sentancing those people to death. 

 

if you feel the decision was just another blunder in the large assortment during this pandemic your well articulated and we simply disagree. if you include his coverup in this argument, the media ignoring and the blocking of investigations then that's where we severely disagree. 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Buffarukus

[Unforgiven]

4 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

 ??  Read your own words 

 

 

also 

 

It’s funny watch people waking up to the fact that the pandemic was blatantly  exploited and politicized by all the politicians 

They will fall back asleep soon of boredom, waiting on the morons to distribute alms to the poor.

[Beast]

3 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I'm not familiar with everyone's stance here but typically pro Trump people go after Cuomo. Pro Cuomo people go after Trump. I'm guessing you're a pro Trump guy. 

 

There's always an agenda, so the topics always go together. 

 

 

 

Actually, I'm a "pro don't break the law" guy.

[WideNine]

5 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

You admit that she has " borderline psychotic revenge history" but believe everything she says? Psychotic people believe what they want without needing a good reason to destroy a career. I will tell you that no one has backed her up publicly, which to me is a huge red flag. As for the scientist part I should have clarified better but she has never worked on any data in regards to viruses and the media made her expert for no reason. 

 

I see nothing incompatible with saying she has a revenge history AND saying she had no reason to lie about her superiors at the state telling her to manipulate the data.

 

When the proof that her superiors did direct her to do just that eventually comes out in the wash,  I will be not be surprised in the least.

 

In fact, her not doing what they were demanding and being stubborn about getting her correct data public, fits her obsessive compulsive get-back-at-them profile.

 

So it takes an expert to know you have 4000 reported deaths and those in charge are telling you to report a few hundred?

 

Sheesh....maybe it does for some folks.

 

Occasionally I do run across a conservative who is not a Trump cult, QAnon factless rabbit hole ideologue who can debate a topic well.

 

There are too few.

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by WideNine

[Buffalo_Stampede]

33 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

Actually, I'm a "pro don't break the law" guy.

I'm sure. 

[WideNine]

7 hours ago, Tenhigh said:

God, the bolded part is mother#×<#ing refreshing to read.  Our country would be so much better of if all political discussions by regular folks were kicked of by acknowledging that politicians are pretty much all scum bags, working in their own best interest. After we agree start there, we can just talk about what is best for the country without the dehumanizing insults. 

 

Sadly, this is likely true for most of our elected officials.

 

Regardless of party affiliation, Americans need to do a better job assessing candidate character beyond the inflammatory rhetoric and partisan talking points.

 

Who would have thought that stuffing government vacancies with Ivy league lawyers and Harvard Business School grads would create a vacuum of morality and character 🤔 

 

Then in typical fashion we have the backlash pendulum swing of voting in tinfoil hat-wearing der-t-ders.

 

There has got to be a responsible middle-ground.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by WideNine

[Orlando Buffalo]

9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The triumph of Politics and Ego over Conscience

 

1) NYS got dealt a tough hand

2) Cuomo made some tough decisions, I'll give him that, although too late

3) Some of his decisions were understandable in the context of the early pandemic, but incorrect from a public-health standpoint

4) Unclear how many deaths in nursing homes resulted from this policy, with widespread community infection and poor infection control policies/lack of PPE meaning many aides caring for the elderly unwittingly spread infection.  Lord knows there are enough nursing home deaths in states that did NOT have this policy

5) Be that as it may, the honorable course of action after the fact, is transparency.  Put the data out there, support investigation, let the chips fall

6) If the aides and subordinates do not follow that course of action, the buck falls on the desk of the man in charge.

 

All that said actions can be despicable and immoral and not illegal.  Hopefully with the "prison on the table" comment at this point, you aren't one of those who respond in other cases calling for investigation prior to "rush to judgement"

 

 

There is one comment you make that is scary for an intelligent person to make- and I believe you are intelligent. "Some of his decisions were understandable in the context of the early pandemic, but incorrect from a public-health standpoint" 

His decision to put the sick back with the elderly was implemented in March of last year when by March 12th we knew that the elderly were much more susceptible to COVID. Putting the sick with the elderly is not understandable if you ask any epidemiologist or anyone who has ever worked in healthcare. That decision is responsible for thousands of deaths and was made without a shred of intelligence or advice from a competent person. I am certain of date because it was first day spring break and I did not see my parents for months after. 

[Orlando Buffalo]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/cuomos-covid-hero-myth-house-165006269.html

 

This is the definition of the failure of our media. If you did not want to destroy him as I have for every awful decision that is one thing but they literally made him the hero. His numbers are literally the worst in the developed world, he is the baseball coach who is 40-120 and the media argued he was best. If you live in New York and at any point thought Cuomo was impressive during this please use this to recognize how bad he has been and how much the media covers for him.

[ALF]

Cuomo's explanation was that the federal gov allowed more then 2M Europeans to fly into NY airports bringing covid with them before a ban.

 

The CDC did not demand Congress fund to restock PPE supplies

 

The CDC did not have safe rules for nursing homes concerning covid at the start.

 

Cuomo is not a health expert , the health experts have to raise hell with him when he is wrong.

Edited February 14, 2021 by ALF

[Big Gun]

Cuomo is going to prison.

[daz28]

Which is not like the others: It's just the flu, masks don't work, 99.99% survival rate, what happened to the flu, car accidents died of covid?, Cuomo killed all those people

 

 

This article is about them not disclosing the numbers.  It is NOT about how the nursing home situation was handled.  Cuomo said if they couldn't isolate them in the nursing home to take them to the hospital, and obviously ANYTIME someone in a nursing home becomes very sick, they should be transported to a hospital.

[soflabillsfan1]

I got laughed at back in August when I said FL was doing a better job at managing the virus than NY.  NY got initially dealt bad hand with NYC, but Cuomo did not do a good job.  The media was fawning all over him and throwing Desantis under the bus at the same time but the numbers are the numbers.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 2/13/2021 at 10:03 AM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Cuomo has held office too long. Simple as that. If people want to fix politics, begin with term limits for every level of politics. So I do talk to people who despise both. I'm pretty sure 100% of Trump supporters despise Cuomo. 

term limits and some sort of neutral campaign fund aggregator, where the money is consolidated and redistributed neutrally and clean, even use tax dollars if need be , would go a lot way toward killing the current corrupt political elitists two party atrocity. 

[Unforgiven]

On 2/14/2021 at 9:47 AM, Big Gun said:

Cuomo is going to prison.

The chance of this is prolly better than lefties quittin' trump

both are extremely unlikely

[Wacka]

Cuomo sounds like Captain Queeg.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

On 2/14/2021 at 9:31 AM, ALF said:

Cuomo's explanation was that the federal gov allowed more then 2M Europeans to fly into NY airports bringing covid with them before a ban.

 

The CDC did not demand Congress fund to restock PPE supplies

 

The CDC did not have safe rules for nursing homes concerning covid at the start.

 

Cuomo is not a health expert , the health experts have to raise hell with him when he is wrong.

When the ship sinks it looks like it’s going to be you, the two Cuomo brothers and maybe Miley Cyrus left on board. Jeesh. 
 

Update:  You, both Cuomo brothers, maybe Miley Cyrus and Daz28.  He’ll be making sure the Cuomo bros luggage gets to their respective stateroom(s). 

Edited February 16, 2021 by leh-nerd skin-erd