Watson vs Allen.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

You listed stats showing that Watson was pushing the ball down the field not that prevent defenses don't enable QB's to do that.  The prevent is designed to stop the big over the top plays but often leaves the 10 - 20 yard stuff open.  Completing 6 of 7 passes for 75 yards on your way to a late TD will give you a pretty decent yards per attempt. 

 

And how is saying Watson is a top 10 QB not being objective?  It's not like I'm saying he sucks.  I just happen to think that right now Allen is top 5 and Watson is top 10.

 

IMO my top 5 would be: Rogers, Mahomes, Allen, Brady and Wilson.  My next 7 would be:  Jackson, Watson, Prescott, Herbert, Burrough, Stafford & Mayfield

 

 

But having that stat line on a late TD drive isn't going to push up the average of a whole game so markedly. And it isn't like the Texans were being blown out and playing from 21 points behind. They lost 8 games by one score. If you think Watson is 6th... I can just about live with that. I think he is better at this point than Brady and he definitely outplayed Russ in 2020, but I understand giving Russ the benefit of the doubt for longevity. But he is in that group not the group you have him in. 

 

Mahomes, Rodgers, Allen - tier 1

Watson, Wilson, Brady - tier 2

Everyone else - clearly a tier below.  

[NewEra]

31 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Josh can give the Rams D another whooping in 4 years time. They might already have changed their minds by then

 

Because Watson is better than a top 10 QB. And now you are saying "well ignore the stats I am going to tell you that my pre-conceived idea is the right one". 

 

I wouldn't trade Allen for Watson either. I can just be objective about both.

Or maybe this year in the super bowl!

[dave mcbride]

37 minutes ago, MJS said:

Wasn't the 2nd Jets game inclement weather too? I seem to remember a couple of the regular season games being bad weather.

52 degrees and an 8 mph wind in that game.

[MJS]

16 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

52 degrees and an 8 mph wind in that game.

And rain? Or did the Pats game have rain? I remember two rain games.

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, Rico said:

I would move him ahead of Lamar. He can be top 6.

Tannehill is somewhere up there too. And the gap between Tannehill and Watson < the gap between Watson and Allen.

[C.Biscuit97]

37 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Tannehill is somewhere up there too. And the gap between Tannehill and Watson < the gap between Watson and Allen.

What??? Henry makes Tannehill. Any time Henry gets taken away, Tannehill sucks. Watson has played with dog crap at RB, gets his best receiver traded away (AJ Brown is a monster) and has his best year. 
 

If you are honestly thinking Watson and Tannehill are close, you know nothing about football. 

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But having that stat line on a late TD drive isn't going to push up the average of a whole game so markedly. And it isn't like the Texans were being blown out and playing from 21 points behind. They lost 8 games by one score. If you think Watson is 6th... I can just about live with that. I think he is better at this point than Brady and he definitely outplayed Russ in 2020, but I understand giving Russ the benefit of the doubt for longevity. But he is in that group not the group you have him in. 

 

Mahomes, Rodgers, Allen - tier 1

Watson, Wilson, Brady - tier 2

Everyone else - clearly a tier below.  

Little earlier for Allen on tier 1. It should be reserved for guys who have done it year after year. Another year like this, and I’d put him there. 
 

And I still think Wilson is borderline tier 1. He is Seattle’s offense. 

[Rico]

Of course, if you are looking at QBs to lead you to a win in 1 game (like say, the SB), there is only one player in Tier 1, and that is still Tom Brady.

Edited February 19, 2021 by Rico

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But having that stat line on a late TD drive isn't going to push up the average of a whole game so markedly. And it isn't like the Texans were being blown out and playing from 21 points behind. They lost 8 games by one score. If you think Watson is 6th... I can just about live with that. I think he is better at this point than Brady and he definitely outplayed Russ in 2020, but I understand giving Russ the benefit of the doubt for longevity. But he is in that group not the group you have him in. 

 

Mahomes, Rodgers, Allen - tier 1

Watson, Wilson, Brady - tier 2

Everyone else - clearly a tier below.  

To be an that tier Allen needs more than 1 elite season. He's on his way but not there yet. 

[GoBills808]

57 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

What??? Henry makes Tannehill. Any time Henry gets taken away, Tannehill sucks. Watson has played with dog crap at RB, gets his best receiver traded away (AJ Brown is a monster) and has his best year. 
 

If you are honestly thinking Watson and Tannehill are close, you know nothing about football. 

Little earlier for Allen on tier 1. It should be reserved for guys who have done it year after year. Another year like this, and I’d put him there. 
 

And I still think Wilson is borderline tier 1. He is Seattle’s offense. 

let me tell you i am absolutely devastated that the guy who called Allen a bust nonstop for the past two years thinks I know nothing about football

[Behindenemylines]

Allen is better in every way and is a leader which is most needed in today’s nfl 

 

Watson is a really good player but his attitude appears to me, and his recent antics show he’s a locker room killer and “me first” guy.  That’s not a leader. That won’t get you a ring for sure 
 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

50 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

let me tell you i am absolutely devastated that the guy who called Allen a bust nonstop for the past two years thinks I know nothing about football

You’re not smart. I said Allen wasn’t a very good passer his first 2 years and he wasn’t. I know you’re a soccer mom and a sensitive cupcake but I’m glad Allen isn’t. Because rather than be like GoBills said I was awesome my first 2 years, he kept improving and had an amazing season. 
 

But despite you side tracking the point, you’re a stupid football fan of you think Tannehill is comparable to Watson. Like really dumb. If the Titans had Watson, they are instant SB contenders.  Every time the count on Tannehill when Henry isn’t going beast mode, he sucks. He is s product of their system. Watson is the system. 

46 minutes ago, Behindenemylines said:

Allen is better in every way and is a leader which is most needed in today’s nfl 

 

Watson is a really good player but his attitude appears to me, and his recent antics show he’s a locker room killer and “me first” guy.  That’s not a leader. That won’t get you a ring for sure 
 

 

What is this? So if traded Diggs for levon bell before the season and then said Allen could be part of the process of hiring the coach and GM but then didn’t contact him, you don’t think he would be mad? Luckily, we don’t have to worry about that because we have a stable organization. The Texans are a joke run by a religious guy who has never run a front office 

 

not one single teammate has ever said anything about positive things about Watson. Andre Johnson, the Texans best receiver who never talks, ripped the team.  How anyone could side with the Texans is beyond me. They had a SB contender with a top 5 qb and let Bill O’Brien destroy it. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

The Texans are a joke run by a religious guy who has never run a front office 

 

Something about Houston.... it was after his meltdown there that Nate Peterman told the assembled media they were not allowed to judge him because they are not God.

[dave mcbride]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But having that stat line on a late TD drive isn't going to push up the average of a whole game so markedly. And it isn't like the Texans were being blown out and playing from 21 points behind. They lost 8 games by one score. If you think Watson is 6th... I can just about live with that. I think he is better at this point than Brady and he definitely outplayed Russ in 2020, but I understand giving Russ the benefit of the doubt for longevity. But he is in that group not the group you have him in. 

 

Mahomes, Rodgers, Allen - tier 1

Watson, Wilson, Brady - tier 2

Everyone else - clearly a tier below.  

I really don't get not putting Brady in the top 5. Let me ask you this: who do you want starting as your QB in a playoff game? Brady or Rodgers? Brady or Wilson? Brady or Watson? I know who I'm picking in every instance, and it's not even close. Brady raises the game of everyone else around him in a way that's unique in NFL history.

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You’re not smart. I said Allen wasn’t a very good passer his first 2 years and he wasn’t. I know you’re a soccer mom and a sensitive cupcake but I’m glad Allen isn’t. Because rather than be like GoBills said I was awesome my first 2 years, he kept improving and had an amazing season. 
 

But despite you side tracking the point, you’re a stupid football fan of you think Tannehill is comparable to Watson. Like really dumb. If the Titans had Watson, they are instant SB contenders.  Every time the count on Tannehill when Henry isn’t going beast mode, he sucks. He is s product of their system. Watson is the system. 

What is this? So if traded Diggs for levon bell before the season and then said Allen could be part of the process of hiring the coach and GM but then didn’t contact him, you don’t think he would be mad? Luckily, we don’t have to worry about that because we have a stable organization. The Texans are a joke run by a religious guy who has never run a front office 

 

not one single teammate has ever said anything about positive things about Watson. Andre Johnson, the Texans best receiver who never talks, ripped the team.  How anyone could side with the Texans is beyond me. They had a SB contender with a top 5 qb and let Bill O’Brien destroy it. 

I prefer Watson to Tannehill, but the latter decidedly does not suck. He is a good QB. 

[Rico]

3 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

I really don't get not putting Brady in the top 5. Let me ask you this: who do you want starting as your QB in a playoff game? Brady or Rodgers? Brady or Wilson? Brady or Watson? I know who I'm picking in every instance, and it's not even close. Brady raises the game of everyone else around him in a way that's unique in NFL history.

Exactly.... and if I can’t have Brady but I can have my choice of any other QB, Watson would not be under consideration.

Edited February 20, 2021 by Rico

[GoBills808]

4 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You’re not smart.

 

I know you’re a soccer mom and a sensitive cupcake

 

you’re a stupid football fan

 

Like really dumb

I'm ok. Somehow I manage to navigate the mean streets of Two Bills Drive without calling anonymous posters names.

 

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

I really don't get not putting Brady in the top 5. Let me ask you this: who do you want starting as your QB in a playoff game? Brady or Rodgers? Brady or Wilson? Brady or Watson? I know who I'm picking in every instance, and it's not even close. Brady raises the game of everyone else around him in a way that's unique in NFL history.

 

Yea I get that. At times the last two years though he has just played some flat out bad football that is kind of hard to unsee. Even against Green Bay in the playoffs the second half he was bad. He is a winner. The greatest QB of all time and a flat out winner. I just think the play is a lot more uneven than it used to be, regardless of how well he played in the Superbowl. 

[Nelius]

Nobody's actually "exploring" this. Real top 5 looking forward are Mahomes, Rodgers, Allen, Murray, Wilson/Watson, with significant emphasis on ranking Allen above Watson. Justin Herbert lurking in honorable mention. Brady's an enigma, I'm not including him in these things. He could throw ducks for 2,000 yards next year and still win a Super Bowl apparently, I don't know how you rank that.

[Warcodered]

 

[CincyBillsFan]

7 hours ago, Nelius said:

Nobody's actually "exploring" this. Real top 5 looking forward are Mahomes, Rodgers, Allen, Murray, Wilson/Watson, with significant emphasis on ranking Allen above Watson. Justin Herbert lurking in honorable mention. Brady's an enigma, I'm not including him in these things. He could throw ducks for 2,000 yards next year and still win a Super Bowl apparently, I don't know how you rank that.

 

Don't sleep on Joe Burrow.  In fact given how cheap they are for the next two to three years I would likely take Herbert or Burrow before I would take Watson.

 

That got me thinking what I would do if I owned a franchise and could pick my QB.

 

First tier = Mahomes or Allen

 

If I couldn't have one of those two:

 

Second Tier = Burrow or Herbert.

 

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

Don't sleep on Joe Burrow.  In fact given how cheap they are for the next two to three years I would likely take Herbert or Burrow before I would take Watson.

 

That got me thinking what I would do if I owned a franchise and could pick my QB.

 

First tier = Mahomes or Allen

 

If I couldn't have one of those two:

 

Second Tier = Burrow or Herbert.

 

 

So I think Watson is better than Burrow and Herbert at this stage by still some distance. But I have said there are only 7 teams who shouldn't at least be calling about Deshaun Watson and two of those are Cincy and the Chargers because they have 4 more years of cost control (3 of stringent cost control) with guys who looked good to very good as rookies.