The Patrick Mahomes Super Bowl Debate

[NewEra]

His OL sucked.  The Tampa pass rush was as fierce as I’ve seen in any game all season.  In years maybe.  Mahomes, didn’t take what was given and tried to do too much.  
 

If the refs called the game like they did vs us, those penalties in the 2nd quarter wouldn’t have existed and the bucs would’ve had would’ve had 7-10 points instead of 21 at the half.  Hill and Williams taking the ball off their face masks didn’t help.  Kelce with 3 drops.  
 

There were many mistakes and elements of poor play that made it a blowout.  I think people are pointing that out.  The loss wasn’t on Mahomes imo.  Regardless of how well he did or didn’t play, his teammates and coaches (and refs) were even worse. 

More Mahomes threads please!!

Edited February 12, 2021 by NewEra

[TBBills]

This game was so last week... Right now everyone is 0-0 and Free Agency gonna start.

[Iiiiiiiiive Got a Feeeelin]

Pundits will defend him because like it or not he is (part of) the future of the nfl and its obvious he's the new golden boy.  And it took me until the Bills got good and the heads actually started talking about us that i realized they are mostly garbage just trying to maintain popular talking points or just say off the wall things to get reactions (ie: Nick Wright).  That being said, no i dont think he lost them that game but yeah he was definitely a factor.  last point: the turf toe thing reminded me of the Bills/Chiefs reg season game when Josh had a rocky start Troy was all over how terrible his accuracy is no mention of the wind and rain, as soon as Mahomes fires one incomplete, its the weather.  This is just the future we are in store for and we may all learn to really dislike the Chiefs very soon, for those who dont already that is.

Edited February 12, 2021 by Iiiiiiiiive Got a Feeeelin
forgot a couple crucial words

[Like A Mofo]

Bottom Line: If Josh Allen played in the SB and had the same OL out, very few of these talking heads would say 'go get your eyes checked' if you think Allen was one of the Top 10 reasons that Buffalo lost the SB.

 

Lots of not all would point to Allen and his inaccuracy talk pre draft and how 'they knew deep down' that is what he would be.

 

Most know exactly why this is happening.

 

[Michael1962]

I find  Mina Kime's voice really annoying.  Kind of like someone strangling a cat.

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Iiiiiiiiive Got a Feeeelin said:

Pundits will defend him because like it or not he is (part of) the future of the nfl and its obvious he's the new golden boy.  And it took me until the Bills got good and the heads actually started talking about us that i realized they are mostly garbage just trying to maintain popular talking points or just say off the wall things to get reactions (ie: Nick Wright).  That being said, no i dont think he lost them that game but yeah he was definitely a factor.  last point: the turf toe thing reminded me of the Bills/Chiefs reg season game when Josh had a rocky start Troy was all over how terrible his accuracy is no mention of the wind and rain, as soon as Mahomes fires one incomplete, its the weather.  This is just the future we are in store for and we may all learn to really dislike the Chiefs very soon, for those who dont already that is.

 

And of course Aikman seemed oblivious to the fact that Allen was wearing a special harness that game because of the shoulder injury he suffered two weeks earlier.

 

 

 

 

[BruceVilanch]

[Southern Bills Fan]

While QB is the most important position in sports, you win as a team and you lose as a team. If your OLine plays poorly you’re not going anywhere no matter how good your QB is. 

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, Southern Bills Fan said:

While QB is the most important position in sports, you win as a team and you lose as a team. If your OLine plays poorly you’re not going anywhere no matter how good your QB is. 

 

Agree with that. I have said it constantly over the years..... there are not many plays in any offensive playbook that you can run successfully when your oline can't execute. 

 

The book on beating Kansas City is out. Both Las Vegas and Tampa pressured Mahomes on over 50% of his dropbacks - and did it while barely blitzing. That is the magic number. You have to be able to pressure them half the time that Mahomes drops back to pass. If you do that he starts going for the kill shot too often when he is kept clean and you can get them off the field. That is, of course, easier said than done!

Edited February 12, 2021 by GunnerBill

[JMF2006]

If you think this is bad it would have been nauseating if he had won  

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

The biggest take-away is that the Chiefs are not this infallible team most of us thought they were. And if we consider the big picture, they will likely only be more fallible in the coming years. The Chiefs team of the last three years will very likely go down as one of the more talented teams Mahomes will ever have played with for his career. And that's on both sides of the ball. It is hard to envision the talent around Mahomes getting better than what he has had around him thus far. Even matching the talent level will be an uphill task for the GM. 

 

Mahomes will be fine in the long run. But I would expect him to have to really work for it more often in the common years like we saw in this past Super Bowl.

[No_Matter_What]

18 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

The biggest take-away is that the Chiefs are not this infallible team most of us thought they were. And if we consider the big picture, they will likely only be more fallible in the coming years. The Chiefs team of the last three years will very likely go down as one of the more talented teams Mahomes will ever have played with for his career. And that's on both sides of the ball. It is hard to envision the talent around Mahomes getting better than what he has had around him thus far. Even matching the talent level will be an uphill task for the GM. 

 

Mahomes will be fine in the long run. But I would expect him to have to really work for it more often in the common years like we saw in this past Super Bowl.

 

I fully agree with this. The Chiefs are still great, but the difference between them and Bills (or anybody else, for that matter), is not as big as it seemed from AFCCG. We were good matchup for them and we had bad gameplan. It is not like that they were playing close games during season since they were bored, and suddenly turned on playoff mode vs us. We just were not ready.

 

There are still many people I know talking about how good Mahomes is and how he can win 5 rings or more (I already have a bet about this lol). I don't see it. I think they don't win next year and then suddenly people will need to realize that after 5 years in the league he has exactly one ring, no matter how good he is.

 

Oh and I rewatched SB. Yes Oline sucked, but Mahomes didn't play well too. He had worst pocket movement I've ever seen from him. He stepped into pressure couple of times, he failed to take checkdowns when they were clearly best options (or took them late), he turned into wrong direction against pressure couple of times (2-3 times he just turned directly into the rusher). He had also couple of overthrows and got finally caught with his INT-worthy throws. He was incredible sometimes, and still very good overall, but definitely not great. I am pretty sure that his injury is partly to blame though.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

 

I fully agree with this. The Chiefs are still great, but the difference between them and Bills (or anybody else, for that matter), is not as big as it seemed from AFCCG. We were good matchup for them and we had bad gameplan. It is not like that they were playing close games during season since they were bored, and suddenly turned on playoff mode vs us. We just were not ready.

 

I actually think they were a bit bored in the final weeks of the season. They just played a bit half assed. They were brilliant against Cleveland until Mahomes went out and then brilliant against the Bills too before sucking in the Superbowl. And I think us against them is much more matchup than our gameplan. The teams who beat KC are good at things the Bills are not great at - edge pressure and running the ball. You can't suddenly transform yourself from the team you have been all year just for 1 gameplan to play Kansas City. That is why it is a tricky conundrum for the Bills. I think they will continue to be a tough matchup for us. We need to try and get better in the areas where we know they have a weakness but equally we can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. We are 25-11 over the past two seasons. Would be crazy to rip up the whole script. That said if someone else wants to knock KC out of the playoffs for us next season so that we are playing anyone else in the AFCCG then you won't find me complaining  

[TheFunPolice]

As bad as the game and score ended up being, it should have been 10-6 at halftime, not 21-6, if not for things that were almost 100% in KC's control. 

 

If KC lines up onside for the FG that Tampa made to go up 10-6 (sound familiar?) it never gets to 14-6. 

 

If Reid doesn't burn time outs to encourage Brady to just chuck it deep and get bailed out by PI flags for a free TD right before half, it stays 10-6. Without KC taking those time outs, Tampa probably runs out the clock, hoping not to give it back to Mahomes with timeouts before the half. 

 

Maybe if it's just 10-6, where TB has thrown the kitchen sink at you but you're still one Tyreek Hill spring from taking the lead.

 

Either way, as much as Tampa physically dominated the game, it really SHOULD have been 10-6 Tampa at the half with KC coming out to start the 3rd with the ball and a chance to take the lead. Totally different ballgame maybe. 

 

In past years, these "what ifs" would grate on me, because I would want someone else other than Brady to be stacking up accolades, especially since it didn't matter to the Bills (I'm talking about the 20 years of nothing that were our existence). 

 

Now it doesn't matter. NE didn't win, and the Chiefs are in the way of our team! 

 

Also, I've said it before but it bears repeating here: plenty of other "Jordans" never got back to the big game after early success. Just ask Rodgers or Wilson about that. 

 

 

 

 

[Brennan Huff]

This shouldn’t even be a debate. Even as he was being chased all over the field, Mahomes was throwing freaking lasers. The combination of a depleted offensive line and a great Tampa pass rush was the difference of the game. I’m putting zero blame on Mahomes 

[No_Matter_What]

11 minutes ago, Brennan Huff said:

This shouldn’t even be a debate. Even as he was being chased all over the field, Mahomes was throwing freaking lasers. The combination of a depleted offensive line and a great Tampa pass rush was the difference of the game. I’m putting zero blame on Mahomes 

Well then go and watch again. He was throwing some freaking lasers and then he was also throwing some innacurate balls. He also had pretty bad pocket movement quite often. I blame this mostly on his injury, but still. And he while he was chased at times, it wasn't purely on OLine and it wasn't that bad. There were some busted screen plays for example.

[Brennan Huff]

17 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

Well then go and watch again. He was throwing some freaking lasers and then he was also throwing some innacurate balls. He also had pretty bad pocket movement quite often. I blame this mostly on his injury, but still. And he while he was chased at times, it wasn't purely on OLine and it wasn't that bad. There were some busted screen plays for example.

“Chased at times”. Lol

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chiefswire.usatoday.com/2021/02/07/kansas-city-chiefs-patrick-mahomes-super-bowl-lv-pressures-most-in-nfl-history/amp/

 

Yeah there were some busted plays. A couple. That fact is he was pressured more than any other QB in the history of the Super Bowl

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

17 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Michael Jordan didn't even make it to the NBA finals until his 7th year...........he had more than a few fails in the lead up........and never won a championship when he didn't have the healthier and more talented team.

 

That's not to detract from Jordan but the notion that he was infallible is far from correct.    2 SB appearances and 3 title games in 3 years as a starting QB in the NFL is pretty amazing.

I dont mean to take away from mahomes but its pretty rare a first or second year qb gets dropped into a lineup who's already in their super bowl window...im not sure he deserves all the credit for their super bowl appearances 

6 minutes ago, Brennan Huff said:

“Chased at times”. Lol

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chiefswire.usatoday.com/2021/02/07/kansas-city-chiefs-patrick-mahomes-super-bowl-lv-pressures-most-in-nfl-history/amp/

 

Yeah there were some busted plays. A couple. That fact is he was pressured more than any other QB in the history of the Super Bowl

 

 

That is a fact for sure but its tough to tell how much of that pressure was avoidable by looking to shorter routes/check downs.  Yea his offensive line played bad but if you keep taking 30 step drops and getting sacked trying to throw bombs all over the field thats definitely on you too lol

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

51 minutes ago, Brennan Huff said:

This shouldn’t even be a debate. Even as he was being chased all over the field, Mahomes was throwing freaking lasers. The combination of a depleted offensive line and a great Tampa pass rush was the difference of the game. I’m putting zero blame on Mahomes 

When did we start giving qbs credit for incomplete passes lol I have honestly never seen anything like this...yea he lobbed up some on target-ish passes that were frequently tipped by bucs defenders or his receivers took shots or gave up on the play because they didn't think they were getting the ball.  When the game mattered every completed pass I can remember was to a comically wide open travis kelce...mahomes did what we all accuse josh allen of and he did it the entire game start to finish...likely because he's never been in that situation before 

Edited February 12, 2021 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Trekking]

He was scrambling all game and receivers dropping hero passes that each would’ve transformed the game throughout.  He’s good no doubt. Rest of team are dirty and they got what they deserved. Buccs defense is a menace. The real sad story is Brady stealing the shine from a defense that could’ve taken half the QBs in the league to the title.