Re-sign or “Wave Good-bye” series: Player 5 - Jon Feliciano

[colin]

im torn on him, i still think we can ditch morse and go w mongo at c, which is a better value.  if an upgrade is out there, then i'm for that too.

 

we need to get better in the interior OL, i think are tackles are solid.  i think the biggest impact is drafting one or two guys, at least one of them in the first two rounds, who is talented, athletic, and nasty.  i think one savage can make the whole line better, and ford is at the least a body and they drafted him high so he may have potential yet.

 

with josh and at least one better RB on the team (don't really care where he comes from ) i think we can go from just useless in the run game to making D's pay dearly for keying in on the pass, if our overall line play improves.  

[billsfan89]

Give him a similar or even slightly higher offer than Spain. Got to try and keep D.Williams and Mongo on the line. Can't overpay due to a cap crunch but you have to make a good fair offer.

[f0neguy]

Folks are commenting on how Jones (KC) destroyed him a couple of weeks ago.   How many guards this year handled Jones one-on one?   Just asking.....

[TPS]

5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I thought it looked high too. I was thinking more like 5-6 mill range

Given his versatility and process mentality, I expect him back and could see him getting $6 mil/yr.  Starting C or G is the question...

[YoloinOhio]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Two points:

1) I'm not sure what "has never been a consistent starter" means in the context of Jon starting 17 of 17 games in 2019 and every game since he was activated off IR in 2020 (12 of 12 since activation) NOTE: including playoffs.  When a guy has started every game he's not on IR for 2 seasons, I'd call him a "consistent starter"

2) People discussing Jon's run blocking should have a look at Cover1's video "glaring issues in the run game" then go back and look at some film for themselves.  He may be a better run blocker than a pass blocker but he was def. part of the problem with the run game at times this season. 

3) I think he had a bad game against Kansas City

That said, I think it's hard to know how much his injury and the fall-out from it was impacting him after he came back (no reps, limited strength training, probably some limits on other forms of conditioning, possibly needing pain meds to get through the game) so there is a case to be made for reserving judgement.  Jon himself said in an interview "I haven't blocked well this season" or words to that effect.

4) I'm not sure the run blocking style that best suits him is the run style Daboll actually aspires to - so there's that question

 

I believe the Spotrac market value is based upon perception of Jon as an OL starter

 

My $0.02:

-I like Mongo a lot.  I think he's a great guy with a great story of overcoming adversity.

-I think the Bills need an upgrade on the interior line, and you can't upgrade while keeping things the same

-If Mongo is the answer at center, which many seem to believe, I want to know what is the question? since pass blocking and consistent snaps should still be a priority and I think Morse > Mongo at both of those

What I meant by that is he’s the type of player who typically needs to come in and compete for a starting spot every year. He’s not automatically handed a starting guy job like Dawkins or Morse. Jmo 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Three pages in and i Am the first to post this meme— you guys are slipping! 
 

[Nuncha]

Would love to see him stay...high value player because he can fill in at center and the offense doesn't miss a beat.

[jwhit34]

This probably will not be a very popular opinion...

 

I see a lot of similarities in fans' feelings about Feliciano and Jordan Phillips. There are many that overvalue both of them because they are very demonstrative on the field, have a fiery attitude. I think that blinds some when it comes to evaluating their performance. 

 

Excluding 2019, Phillips has had a journeyman's career: 5 years, 69 games, 7.5 sacks, 15 TFL, 2 FFs. 

 

Feliciano was a backup for the 4 years he was with the Raiders, never taking more than 22% of the snaps in a season. Like Phillips, he had a career season in '19 and also like Phillips, he was hampered by injury in '20 and only played in 9 regular season games (ironically same # as Phillips). 

 

Phillips got rewarded for his one good season with a 3 year, $30 million contract. Beane was wise to let him walk. 

 

Feliciano? He is a nice player, but has limitations. As several people posted, maybe his biggest attribute is his versatility. In a normal year, someone would overpay him in free agency like the Cardinals did for Phillips. The Bills may luck out between teams being cap challenged and Feliciano possibly taking a hometown discount. But Beane will not and will be smart not to overpay. 

 

Is Feliciano 20%, 40% better than Cody Ford? Let's say he's 30% better, Ford has a cap # of about $2 million. That makes Feliciano worth about $2.6 million comparatively if he starts over Ford (I know Ford seems slotted at LG but...). If Feliciano is going to get at least $6 million, he's not 3x better I know that's cold, but that's the business. 

 

[FireChans]

11 minutes ago, jwhit34 said:

This probably will not be a very popular opinion...

 

I see a lot of similarities in fans' feelings about Feliciano and Jordan Phillips. There are many that overvalue both of them because they are very demonstrative on the field, have a fiery attitude. I think that blinds some when it comes to evaluating their performance. 

 

Excluding 2019, Phillips has had a journeyman's career: 5 years, 69 games, 7.5 sacks, 15 TFL, 2 FFs. 

 

Feliciano was a backup for the 4 years he was with the Raiders, never taking more than 22% of the snaps in a season. Like Phillips, he had a career season in '19 and also like Phillips, he was hampered by injury in '20 and only played in 9 regular season games (ironically same # as Phillips). 

 

Phillips got rewarded for his one good season with a 3 year, $30 million contract. Beane was wise to let him walk. 

 

Feliciano? He is a nice player, but has limitations. As several people posted, maybe his biggest attribute is his versatility. In a normal year, someone would overpay him in free agency like the Cardinals did for Phillips. The Bills may luck out between teams being cap challenged and Feliciano possibly taking a hometown discount. But Beane will not and will be smart not to overpay. 

 

Is Feliciano 20%, 40% better than Cody Ford? Let's say he's 30% better, Ford has a cap # of about $2 million. That makes Feliciano worth about $2.6 million comparatively if he starts over Ford (I know Ford seems slotted at LG but...). If Feliciano is going to get at least $6 million, he's not 3x better I know that's cold, but that's the business. 

 

Mongo is 100% better than Ford because Ford sucks.

[delirious]

25 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Mongo is 100% better than Ford because Ford sucks.

 Seriously, what the hell has Ford done to be 30% less than Feliciano?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

What I meant by that is he’s the type of player who typically needs to come in and compete for a starting spot every year. He’s not automatically handed a starting guy job like Dawkins or Morse. Jmo 

 

OK, I understand ....but wasn't he was expected to start this coming season until he tore his pec and got surgery/went on IR?  If he was expected to compete, who was his competition?  The Bills signed Brian Winters only AFTER that happened....do you think he was intended to compete with Cody Ford or Daryl Williams?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, jwhit34 said:

This probably will not be a very popular opinion...

 

I see a lot of similarities in fans' feelings about Feliciano and Jordan Phillips. There are many that overvalue both of them because they are very demonstrative on the field, have a fiery attitude. I think that blinds some when it comes to evaluating their performance. 

 

Excluding 2019, Phillips has had a journeyman's career: 5 years, 69 games, 7.5 sacks, 15 TFL, 2 FFs. 

 

Feliciano was a backup for the 4 years he was with the Raiders, never taking more than 22% of the snaps in a season. Like Phillips, he had a career season in '19 and also like Phillips, he was hampered by injury in '20 and only played in 9 regular season games (ironically same # as Phillips). 

 

Phillips got rewarded for his one good season with a 3 year, $30 million contract. Beane was wise to let him walk. 

 

Feliciano? He is a nice player, but has limitations. As several people posted, maybe his biggest attribute is his versatility. In a normal year, someone would overpay him in free agency like the Cardinals did for Phillips. The Bills may luck out between teams being cap challenged and Feliciano possibly taking a hometown discount. But Beane will not and will be smart not to overpay. 

 

Is Feliciano 20%, 40% better than Cody Ford? Let's say he's 30% better, Ford has a cap # of about $2 million. That makes Feliciano worth about $2.6 million comparatively if he starts over Ford (I know Ford seems slotted at LG but...). If Feliciano is going to get at least $6 million, he's not 3x better I know that's cold, but that's the business.

 

I don't think it's appropriate to compare the compensation of a player on his rookie deal with a vested veteran.  If you really insist on going down that rabbit-hole to compare two players, you will quickly find yourself in Topsy-Turvy  Land.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, f0neguy said:

Folks are commenting on how Jones (KC) destroyed him a couple of weeks ago.   How many guards this year handled Jones one-on one?   Just asking.....

 

Jones was certainly fired up, but IMO you are asking the wrong question.  Sure, our OL is pretty good against most teams in the league. 

 

But now we need to work on building an OL that can hold up against the BEST teams in the league, like Jones when fired up.

[Don Otreply]

Jon is our back up center, and a reasonably good guard on either side, and he “may” end up being our starting center this upcoming season, we need to keep him. 

 

Go Bills!!!

 

 

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

54 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

OK, I understand ....but wasn't he was expected to start this coming season until he tore his pec and got surgery/went on IR?  If he was expected to compete, who was his competition?  The Bills signed Brian Winters only AFTER that happened....do you think he was intended to compete with Cody Ford or Daryl Williams?

I am pretty sure Quinton Spain was expected to start at LG, and the competition was going to be on the right side with Feliciano and Ford/DW. Beane didn’t know if DW would play RG or RT when he was signed but he said it would be one of those. 

[WideNine]

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Does anyone else think we might move on from Williams and look to the draft for an OT?  I'm not advocating, just asking.

 

Good year for o-linemen. Could see Beane nabbing 2 in this draft.

 

Also would not be surprised if he nabs a NT in the draft as they have to be thinking about life without Star and this year it was tough.

 

Star has a 7.6 million cap hit and over 11 million dead cap so they will be hoping for an in shape Star willing to play this season, but I would be grooming a cheap Star 2.0 behind him.

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Jon is our back up center, and a reasonably good guard on either side, and he “may” end up being our starting center this upcoming season, we need to keep him. 

 

Go Bills!!!

 

At what price?  $5M? $6M $8.3M?

And then who do we let walk or cut to free up the $$?  Brown?  McKenzie?  Williams?

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

I am pretty sure Quinton Spain was expected to start at LG, and the competition was going to be on the right side with Feliciano and Ford/DW. Beane didn’t know if DW would play RG or RT when he was signed but he said it would be one of those. 

 

Fair take.  I kind of wonder at the signing of Winters so promptly after Feliciano's injury if so but you may be right.

[Bob in STL]

One bad game against the 2nd best DT in the league.  He has been solid or better otherwise.  I make an offer looking for slight discount.  I see him going to center and I use some of the Morse savings on Feliciano plus zI draft a C/OG somewhere in the first 5 picks.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

One bad game against the 2nd best DT in the league.  He has been solid or better otherwise.  I make an offer looking for slight discount.  I see him going to center and I use some of the Morse savings on Feliciano plus zI draft a C/OG somewhere in the first 5 picks.  

 

You sure 'bout that?  I love me some Mongo.  But he shows up in whiffed blocks in number of the blown-up run plays in the cover-1 cutup and so far I don't see them cherry-picking.

 

Be that as it may - if we want to be a top-10 offense, maybe we might need guards who are a cut above "solid or better"?  This could be a "Good is the Enemy of Great" thing.

[CSBill]

Bottom line: Sure, we all would like to upgrade and get better at the guard spots. But if there is no easy or obvious path to that, Feliciano is a good consolation prize.

 

He's proven he is capable--not the best, but certainly good. He is versatile--I would not be disappointed at all if he moved over to become the starting center (if Morse is let go). And he is a process guy, trusted by his teammates and the coaches.

 

If the financials work out, the Bills can keep him and still upgrade the o-line with one or two other additions. I hope he does stay in Buffalo.