A complete offense matters

[OldTimer1960]

On 2/8/2021 at 7:47 AM, Niagara Dude said:

 

It not just run blocking it having a explosive RB who hits the hole,  neither Singeltary or Moss provide that.  Beane is not going to change the line because our RB'S are both too slow,  too many other needs.  The focus should be retooling out defence and getting an explosive RB who makes big plays

I’m not opposed to a really top RB, but I can’t fault Moss and Singletary when they were being hit/having to elude tacklers in the backfield frequently.  In my opinion, improved run blocking will benefit the run game more than replacing Singletary or Moss.

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

It's not wrong. At all. But the defense was bad against the Colts so your cotention that they held them to 24 points doesn't really tell the whole story. 

 

They turned them over on downs before the half because Rivers back peddled for no reason in a clean pocket and then slightly overthrew an open WR in the end zone for a TD... all the credit to the defense.😅

 

Again, if not for Josh Allen they don't advance from that game. 

 

Very good and Terrific is a gigantic stretch. 

 

 

Very good is zero stretch at all. It's what happened in the last half of the season. You want to say "terrific" is a stretch ... mmm, okay fair enough, maybe a bit. But a "gigantic stretch." No, Scott. That's a major stretch by you. They were really really good. Not elite, and they'd been elite the year before, so they fell back a bit, but really good in the last half. That's what happened.

 

Now, as for your rather desperate concentration on the Colts game (I used the word "terrific" about the half of the season, not about the Colts game), you say, "That's not the whole story ... if not for Josh Allen they don't advance from that game." Pot, meet kettle. That's not the whole story, Scott. Yeah, if not for Josh, they don't advance. Same with the defense also, though. Allen didn't have a terrific game. The offense was solid. But they needed the defense to play well against an excellent Colts offense, an offense that scored 28.2 points per game and was held by this defense to 24.

 

And your desperate attempt at sarcasm here, even though you threw in an emoji for stress, falls flat because what you're saying is true. Yes, the Bills defense did an absolutely terrific job there. The Colts had 1st and goal at the 4. The Bills D turned that into 4th and goal at the 4, and then on 4th they covered very well making Rivers hold the ball longer than he wanted to, and then Poyer covered pretty well, forcing Rivers to have to make a tough throw over him, and the DL pressured Rivers making him throw off his back foot. Clearly you didn't believe what you were saying, but equally clearly you were right. That turnover on downs  was indeed an excellent job by the defense, excellent.

 

If Rivers makes a perfect throw there they score but you can say that on pretty much any throw near the end zone. It's the defense's responsibility to make the throw tough and to bother the QB while he's making it. The Bills did both there. A really nice goal line stand.

 

As was that terrific job they did on the Colts last drive. Terrific isn't a stretch at all on those two drives. The defense played well that game against a really good offense. Held up their end.

 

And to repeat for what is now the third time with no previous response from you ...

 

You said "the better offenses destroy this defense." And that is obviously false. The Colts certainly can't be said to have destroyed that defense. Nor did Arizona. Nor did Baltimore. Simply wrong.

 

 

 

Now, did KC make our defense look bad? Yup. And our offense just as bad.

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Bangarang]

Tampa's rushing offense was worse than ours in pretty much every category. They just have a really good defense and we clearly don't. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Bangarang

[Thurman#1]

8 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Tampa's rushing offense was worse than ours in pretty much every category. They just have a really good defense and we clearly don't. 

 

 

We do have a really good defense, though it's equally obvious theirs is better.

 

Also equally obvious that Tampa's offense was vastly better than ours against KC.

 

Our whole team was flat against KC, STs excepted. But it's a lot more understandable to perform poorly against KC's offense than against its defense.

 

But yeah, you're right, Tampa's run game isn't good.

Edited February 10, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Doc]

It helped immensely calling holding against the Chefs.  I turned the game off prior to halftime because I knew the fix was in.

[Bangarang]

16 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

We do have a really good defense, though it's equally obvious theirs is better.

 

Also equally obvious that Tampa's offense was vastly better than ours against KC.

 

Our whole team was flat against KC, STs excepted. But it's a lot more understandable to perform poorly against KC's offense than against its defense.

 

But yeah, you're right, Tampa's run game isn't good.

 

I wouldn't say we have a really good defense. We were mostly average defensively. We really lack quality play with the front 4 and that was one of our biggest issues this year. 

[Southern_Bills]

This is true but before the SB everyone swore KC was a "complete" offense.

 

Sometimes it's just who's playing better that week.

 

P.S. still get a running game, it will definitely help but don't be shocked if you still look bad Sometimes. 

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Look man, this conversation is going no where.

 

You can tell me all you want how good the defense is. How good Edmunds is. I just didn’t see it. They sucked against the Colts and they were even worse against the Chiefs. 
 

They need to do a much better job drafting and allocating cap space to defensive players. 

 

 

Yeah, you didn't see it. That's obvious.

 

Thing is, everybody else did. You formed an opinion. It's not a reasonable one, but you're not changing. Confirmation bias. 

 

I fight against it, constantly, in myself. And I still occasionally find myself sitting on a position that's become unreasonable. It's a very human thing. 

 

You certainly seem to be correct that the conversation is going nowhere. Fair enough.

 

But the facts don't change. After the Chiefs game the D became a lot better. They allowed 20.7 PPG after that, in a season where 24.8 PPG was the average allowed. That would have put them 5th in the league, after LA, Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Washington. You don't see it, as you admit, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. 

 

And yet again, you made the claim that "the better offenses destroy this defense," and three times now I've pointed out how wildly untrue that is, and you still haven't addressed the point. So for the fourth time, the Colts certainly can't be said to have destroyed that defense, holding them well below their scoring average. Nor did Arizona. Nor did Baltimore. Simply wrong.

 

And again, that doesn't mean they don't need to improve. They do. They need to find ways to improve the pass rush, hopefully bringing in a pass rusher in some way. They could definitely use a big nickel, which they've been trying to get for a couple of years now, to improve their performance against TEs and to make them harder to read, and they could use upgrades at second corner and maybe another D line guy to add to the rotation beyond the pass rusher. All true. Still, after about the first six games they got a lot better. Everyone saw it, from Romo, to the national pundits to ... well, everyone. Not absolutely everyone of course. You can find people who'll argue anything. But it's the consensus and for good reason.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

24 minutes ago, Southern_Bills said:

This is true but before the SB everyone swore KC was a "complete" offense.

 

Sometimes it's just who's playing better that week.

 

P.S. still get a running game, it will definitely help but don't be shocked if you still look bad Sometimes. 

 

 

 

Very true. Matchups matter. And good teams have bad games and bad teams good games sometimes.

[Thurman#1]

8 hours ago, Bangarang said:

 

I wouldn't say we have a really good defense. We were mostly average defensively. We really lack quality play with the front 4 and that was one of our biggest issues this year. 

 

 

Again, I'm not arguing that we were really good the whole year. Clearly we weren't. But the last ten games they really were. Certainly not elite. But very good.

 

Also not arguing we don't need improvements on D, and on the DL even with Lotulelei coming back which alone should really help us. We do need a pass rush. We may well see a guy or two go that didn't really live up to his salary this year creating an opening or two.

 

Anyway, I've clearly assisted in thread-napping -shame on me - and I've said enough here.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Thurman#1

[LABILLBACKER]

15 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

No not everybody else did. There’s a ton of people on this message board also suggesting they weren’t very good. 
 

The Colts moved the ball at will for most of the game...only time they didn’t is when they stopped themselves.....Usually due to a bad throw from Rivers. And I did say they improved, they obviously did. I just don’t think they were “very good” by any stretch. 
 

They need to drop the 8 man rotation on the defensive line. Get some really good starting 4 and play them for the majority of the game instead of this constant rotation of JAGs. The better offensive lines completely stonewall that approach. 

Exactly Scott.  I'd rather have 4 good players on my DL then rotate 8 mediocre (useless ones....like that Thurm!)....Oh but at least they're fresh. 

[bobobonators]

On 2/8/2021 at 11:45 AM, SirAndrew said:

Yes, the Bucs won with defense, Brady, and a great supporting cast of receivers this year. They didn’t have a good running game this season. They were in an excellent rushing team in the Super Bowl, but one game isn’t always indicative of a team. Everything went right in the Super Bowl for the Bucs, because everything fell in place perfectly. 

This x100

 

So many people making conclusions off the super bowl and ignoring the entire season that got these teams to the super bowl. 
 

News flash:  TB didnt get to the super bowl with a balanced offense. They sucked running the ball all season. 
 

News flash:  KC didnt get to the super bowl not pass protecting and having dumb penalties. 
 

[newcam2012]

19 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

"Useless" is wild exaggeration. No, they were not useless. It's fair enough to say that they didn't play at the level they'd hoped, though. How much of that was down to the lack of beef after Lotulelei opted out? And how much early in the season due to the fact that they were new and there was no offseason?

 

Jerry Hughes is anything but expendable. He had a very good season.

 

There's no reason whatsoever to think this will be Star's last season. He could very very easily last another two after that, and even that's assuming they don't extend him at that point. No way to know, really. Could go either way depending on many factors.

 

Yes, we certainly need a pass rusher, no question.

 

Fair enough that they weren't the top 5 D we'd seen the past couple of years. The last half of the season they were pretty close, but yeah, not quite there.

 

 

 

I'd agree with most of this. But I think part of the reason KC couldn't get to Brady was that his inclination was to throw quickly, inside the design of the play, where Allen's natural bent is to be tempted to extend the play and look longer.

No disputing that. Brady has always been difficult to sack even though he's not mobile. He is beyond smart, knows how to read a defense, and gets the ball out quick. Quite different to Allen's skill set  Josh will take more sack due to extending plays with his legs. However, you have to give KC a lot of credit. They harassed Allen all game. Took away the edges and had him running for his life. I'm sure this will be used as a blueprint to beat the Bills. Similarly, the Bucs game plan vs the Chiefs. Coaches and front offices have a lot to digest in this off season.

 

Fyi, always been a fan of your posts. 

[hondo in seattle]

On 2/8/2021 at 12:54 PM, LABILLBACKER said:

Well if that's the case then our o-lineman and/or RBs really blow. Or maybe Daboll just fell in love with Josh doing everything, which is pure insanity. I'm kinda glad we didn't play in that SB last night because we saw on full display how "not ready" we are.

 

I think Daboll fired the weapons he had.   Our best offensive players are our QB and wide outs.  And our OL is better at pass pro than road grading.