A complete offense matters

[EasternOHBillsFan]

13 hours ago, FieldGeneral said:

Did anyone see the game yesterday and still doubt the need for a running game? TB forced KC into having to pass every down since they couldn't/didn't run the ball. When KC needed to make a stop, TB would get chunks of yardage on runs. This matters. You can't put all the pressure on one player to be perfect on every down. KC looked like what we looked like 2 weeks ago. Yes there were more factors involved, but when you have zero run game, you are at a disadvantage. Hopefully Beane addresses the running game in the draft because nobody fears it as it is now. 

 

The Chiefs had everything, but it wasn't nearly as effective.

 

WHY?

 

Unlike the Bills, their defensive front 7 were OUTSTANDING.

 

We need a massive defensive front 7 upgrade on our team. That made all the difference...

Edited February 9, 2021 by EasternOHBillsFan

[LABILLBACKER]

3 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

The Chiefs had everything, but it wasn't nearly as effective.

 

WHY?

 

Unlike the Bills, their defensive front 7 were OUTSTANDING.

 

We need a massive defensive front 7 upgrade on our team. That made all the difference...

Yup, Patrick is a whole different qb when he's harrassed. It also helped TB to have both starting tackles out for KC.  Sean and Brandon need to overhaul the front 7. And Daboll has to resuscitate our run game. 

[machine gun kelly]

19 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

Fournette is available.  

As he was in July of 2020.  The Bucs were smart pick him up in two to three days this summer.  I was hoping, but didn’t predict nor did just about anyone about Moss and Singletary.

Edited February 9, 2021 by machine gun kelly

[ctk232]

14 hours ago, FieldGeneral said:

Did anyone see the game yesterday and still doubt the need for a running game? TB forced KC into having to pass every down since they couldn't/didn't run the ball. When KC needed to make a stop, TB would get chunks of yardage on runs. This matters. You can't put all the pressure on one player to be perfect on every down. KC looked like what we looked like 2 weeks ago. Yes there were more factors involved, but when you have zero run game, you are at a disadvantage. Hopefully Beane addresses the running game in the draft because nobody fears it as it is now. 

Tbf the Chiefs arguably have one of the most complete offenses in the league and it did nothing against a stout defense and, more importantly, an incredibly well-schemed gameplan and playcall. The Bucs were the more complete team, would likely be the better thread here.
 

Their offense came out and performed, no doubt - perfectly balanced attack to get at the Chiefs weaknesses on the ground and through the air with screens and TE heavy use/production. Frankly, what the Bucs left out there was not as complete an offense in terms of tangible production. It was simply what was needed to beat the KC defense. But overall, it was the Bucs defense that made the difference in the game throughout, and against one of the most complete offenses out there. 
 

All this to say, sure, you could argue upgrades needed at TE and in OL run blocking, possibly RB, but KC was the more complete team on the field and in a schemed gameplan approach in the AFCCG. We attacked their strengths on offense, and our defense was exposed. It’s hard to make these hyper-focused comparisons and translate them to another team’s context, especially within the sample of a single game. Plenty to improve on the Bills side, but these are still hard arguments to make.

Edited February 9, 2021 by ctk232

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

I’ve been preaching this for years 

 

BALANCE. 

 

The ability to Pass and Run as needed. 
 

it nice to see people finally get it. 
 

 

[Meatloaf63]

5 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

I’ve been preaching this for years 

 

BALANCE. 

 

The ability to Pass and Run as needed. 
 

it nice to see people finally get it. 
 

 

Some still don’t 😥

[TBBills]

21 hours ago, FieldGeneral said:

Did anyone see the game yesterday and still doubt the need for a running game? TB forced KC into having to pass every down since they couldn't/didn't run the ball. When KC needed to make a stop, TB would get chunks of yardage on runs. This matters. You can't put all the pressure on one player to be perfect on every down. KC looked like what we looked like 2 weeks ago. Yes there were more factors involved, but when you have zero run game, you are at a disadvantage. Hopefully Beane addresses the running game in the draft because nobody fears it as it is now. 

It doesn't matter as much as one would think. Now having the correct Refs for the game matter more now.

 

[SoCal Deek]

The Bills finished 13-3 and were steamrolling teams down the stretch. They’re not as far away as you’d be lead to believe by reading these posts. (In fact, had a couple of things happened differently at the end of the Cleveland/KC game the Bills would’ve been playing this past Sunday.) Fortify the pass rush, improve the running game. They’re nowhere near a rebuilding mode. 

[Doc]

When a team holds another team to 9 points, the argument is that the defense...

[Doc]

 

But that Bucs offense was stacked.  You think Rodgers wouldn't have loved those players?

[TUBSTER]

On 2/8/2021 at 11:19 AM, dneveu said:

 

In this economy?  8 would be high to me.  Gordon got 2yr 16 last year (with a higher cap), after almost 1000 yards and 10 TDs the previous year.  I'd guess maybe 6.  Either way, possibly still too rich.

Fair point, I was just going off Spotrac for those numbers.  

[NewEra]

18 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

As he was in July of 2020.  The Bucs were smart pick him up in two to three days this summer.  I was hoping, but didn’t predict nor did just about anyone about Moss and Singletary.

Yeah I was hoping for to land him too but figured he’d go to a bigger contender.  Allen had yet to unleash his new self on the world

[Nextmanup]

On 2/8/2021 at 7:48 AM, Frat-Train said:

We have a Pro Bowl RB!  He just happens to be the same guy that THROWS the ball, too.  It’s not like QB designed runs are dangerous or something.  It’s not like history or statistics show it’s a bad idea to run your QB.  It’s not like a QB’s play improves or something with the addition of someone who can block or catch.  Want, want, want. There’s just no pleasing fans these days.

 

/end sarcasm

 

Draft a damn difference making RB, please!

Good God know!  Pick one up on waivers; pick up someone else's cut, steal one from a practice squad...do anything but waste draft assets on one!

 

They are everywhere and they are all about the same.

 

 

[Thurman#1]

On 2/8/2021 at 9:37 PM, FieldGeneral said:

Did anyone see the game yesterday and still doubt the need for a running game? TB forced KC into having to pass every down since they couldn't/didn't run the ball. When KC needed to make a stop, TB would get chunks of yardage on runs. This matters. You can't put all the pressure on one player to be perfect on every down. KC looked like what we looked like 2 weeks ago. Yes there were more factors involved, but when you have zero run game, you are at a disadvantage. Hopefully Beane addresses the running game in the draft because nobody fears it as it is now. 

 

 

It's one way to win. Not the only way.

 

Out of pass offense, pass defense, run offense and run defense, run offense is the least important phase. 

 

Still, there are times when a bit of balance absolutely helps. But it doesn't need to be feared. If it's simply effective, that's totally fine. 

 

And it's worth pointing out that this year Tampa was 29th in run yards, far behind the Bills, and 25th in YPC, again behind the Bills. Fournette averaged 3.8 YPC this year, behind Singletary and Moss.

 

Nobody "feared" Tampa's run game any more than ours.

Edited February 10, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

On 2/8/2021 at 11:40 PM, ScottLaw said:

So does a very good pass rush and defense.... I think fixing the rushing offense will be a lot easier to fix than the Bills defense. They are just missing a lot of hard pieces to find/afford upfront and their scheme leaves a lot to be desired at times. The better offenses destroy it. 

 

 

Oh, puh-leeze.

 

That's ridiculous. The last half of the season our D was terrific. Not quite as good as last year, but very very good. As for "the better offenses destroy it," that's wrong on the face of it. Seattle was ripping up the league on offense till the Bills absolutely stonewalled them, and at the same time provided a blueprint for the rest of the league on how to do that. They handled the Cards very well till they got lucky at the end, the Chargers, and they held teh Colts to 24 and the Ravens to 3

 

So, that contention is balderdash.

 

The Bills D needs a pass rusher, and certainly this year they needed beef in the middle, but Lotulelei will provide a lot of that next year. They were very good. They do need to get better, but they were very good.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 2/8/2021 at 6:48 AM, Frat-Train said:

Draft a damn difference making RB, please!

 

Unless we improve the run blocking on OL somehow, RB won't be able to make a difference

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

“They held the Colts to 24” didn’t the Colts punt twice in that game? 😅

 

It wasn’t all that different from the Chiefs game. Completely outclassed defensively. They had no answers as the Colts offensive line dominated the Bills upfront.....except Rivers did what Rivers always does. Comes up short. Luckily Josh Allen was incredible otherwise the Bills are looking at another first round exit. 

 

Cardinals faded down the stretch and weren’t all that great an offense when it was all said and done. 
 

I’d say they were good against Seattle, very good against Baltimore, very bad against the Colts and awful against the Chiefs in the biggest game of the year. 
 

We have very different definitions of “terrific”. 

 

 

Sorry, I said "They held the Colts to 24," correct?

 

Could you point out where that is wrong?

 

No, didn't think so.

 

If they'd been completely outclassed, the Colts would have scored about 35 or 40 points. They didn't. 

 

Oh, and I love how you point to the Colts punting only twice ,,, and remearkably forget the two drives where the Bills D held them on downs, stopping them on 4th down in the first half and 4th down and 11 in the second half, when the Colts got the ball back with 2:30 and the Bills forced them into a 13 play time-drainer of a drive allowing no big plays and strangling them slowly when all they needed was a field goal.

 

So, yes, they held the Colts to 24 and the Colts were a fine offense this year.

 

And as I pointed out (and yet you strangely didn't address in your post ... who could figure that one?) your contention that "the better offenses destroyed it" was utterly and obviously wrong. That was far from the only good defense they played well against. As I said:

 

 

6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

That's ridiculous. The last half of the season our D was terrific. Not quite as good as last year, but very very good. As for "the better offenses destroy it," that's wrong on the face of it. Seattle was ripping up the league on offense till the Bills absolutely stonewalled them, and at the same time provided a blueprint for the rest of the league on how to do that. They handled the Cards very well till they got lucky at the end, the Chargers, and they held teh Colts to 24 and the Ravens to 3

 

...

 

The Bills D needs a pass rusher, and certainly this year they needed beef in the middle, but Lotulelei will provide a lot of that next year. They were very good. They do need to get better, but they were very good.

 

Arguing that the Bills D wasn't very good the last half of the year shows only shows confirmation bias, a poor opinion petrified, polished and worshipped.

Edited February 10, 2021 by Thurman#1

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Oh, puh-leeze.

 

That's ridiculous. The last half of the season our D was terrific. Not quite as good as last year, but very very good. As for "the better offenses destroy it," that's wrong on the face of it. Seattle was ripping up the league on offense till the Bills absolutely stonewalled them, and at the same time provided a blueprint for the rest of the league on how to do that. They handled the Cards very well till they got lucky at the end, the Chargers, and they held teh Colts to 24 and the Ravens to 3

 

So, that contention is balderdash.

 

The Bills D needs a pass rusher, and certainly this year they needed beef in the middle, but Lotulelei will provide a lot of that next year. They were very good. They do need to get better, but they were very good.

Our D did rally after the Seattle game but it was hardly the top 5 defense we saw the previous 2 years. Addison, Murphy, Jefferson and Butler were useless.  And Jerry's age and uncanny ability to never get a holding call makes him expendable. I agree Star will help but next year but it will be his last. We'll need to draft or sign a 1tech and a couple pass rushers. Tampa's front 4 got to Patrick. Ours didn't. End of discussion. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by LABILLBACKER

[newcam2012]

On 2/8/2021 at 4:37 AM, FieldGeneral said:

Did anyone see the game yesterday and still doubt the need for a running game? TB forced KC into having to pass every down since they couldn't/didn't run the ball. When KC needed to make a stop, TB would get chunks of yardage on runs. This matters. You can't put all the pressure on one player to be perfect on every down. KC looked like what we looked like 2 weeks ago. Yes there were more factors involved, but when you have zero run game, you are at a disadvantage. Hopefully Beane addresses the running game in the draft because nobody fears it as it is now. 

I agree. You have to have a decent run game by not a great one. One that keeps the defense honest. Without that you become too easy to defend. KC was able to tee off on a mobile Allen. Yet, they generated little pass rush on Brady who can't move. 

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Our D did rally after the Seattle game but it was hardly the top 5 defense we saw the previous 2 years. Addison, Murphy, Jefferson and Butler were useless.  And Jerry's age and uncanny ability to never get a holding call makes him expendable. I agree Star will help but next year but it will be his last. We'll need to draft or sign a 1tech and a couple pass rushers. Tampa's front 4 got to Patrick. Ours didn't. End of discussion. 

 

 

"Useless" is wild exaggeration. No, they were not useless. It's fair enough to say that they didn't play at the level they'd hoped, though. How much of that was down to the lack of beef after Lotulelei opted out? And how much early in the season due to the fact that they were new and there was no offseason?

 

Jerry Hughes is anything but expendable. He had a very good season.

 

There's no reason whatsoever to think this will be Star's last season. He could very very easily last another two after that, and even that's assuming they don't extend him at that point. No way to know, really. Could go either way depending on many factors.

 

Yes, we certainly need a pass rusher, no question.

 

Fair enough that they weren't the top 5 D we'd seen the past couple of years. The last half of the season they were pretty close, but yeah, not quite there.

 

10 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I agree. You have to have a decent run game by not a great one. One that keeps the defense honest. Without that you become too easy to defend. KC was able to tee off on a mobile Allen. Yet, they generated little pass rush on Brady who can't move. 

 

 

I'd agree with most of this. But I think part of the reason KC couldn't get to Brady was that his inclination was to throw quickly, inside the design of the play, where Allen's natural bent is to be tempted to extend the play and look longer.

Edited February 10, 2021 by Thurman#1