Thoughts and prayers for Zerovoltz here

[NewEra]

Just now, eball said:

 

You see, there are always going to be comparisons between Allen and Mahomes because they are forever linked by those two drafts and the decision made by McDermott.  You're going to frustrate yourself wishing they would go away.  Reasonable arguments may be made that Mahomes is still better than Josh, but there are also reasonable arguments to be made that Josh is damn close to Mahomes' level.  It just so happens that each QB's most recent performance gives us some insight into how they perform when everything else isn't perfect.  In my opinion Josh handled a more "hostile" situation better, but I acknowledge others may take a different view.

Regarding your last point.....was Josh injured vs KC?  Because I know I’ve seen everyone and their mother talk about Josh’s  harness.  Mahomes is having surgery on his toe.  It’s a legit injury that has an effect on him throwing the ball.

[Logic]

3 minutes ago, Success said:

 

Fair points.  I agree about Allen.  I would NOT trade Allen for Mahomes right now. I think they're close, and I think Allen has a higher ceiling.

 

It was weird watching last night.  It almost looked like a mirror image of the game we had w/ them - especially the way Mahomes was running from pressure all night, sometimes retreating 20+ yards from the LOS.  There were so many hot takes after our game w/ them that it showed the "mental" advantage Mahomes had over Allen - but clearly, pressure makes a difference.

 

Still, I thought he made some amazing escapes and throws last night. But we've seen Allen do the same under pressure.

 

I totally agree about last night's game mirroring the AFCCG.

It was so similar it was downright spooky, actually.

The takeaway? Even elite QBs need protection and open receivers in order to be effective. Even the great magician Patrick Mahomes couldn't conjure up a single touchdown when not given time or open pass catchers.

Watching the Bucs do to the Chiefs EXACTLY what the Chiefs had done to the Bills was crazy. Mahomes spent the night looking like "Bad Josh", too. When Mahomes dropped back, drifted, drifted and ate a sack for 12 yards, putting the Chiefs in 3rd and 33, it was like the Twilight Zone.

All the "mental command" and poise don't mean squat if defenders are closing in on you within 2 seconds of the snap and your receivers are blanketed.

[eball]

9 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Regarding your last point.....was Josh injured vs KC?  Because I know I’ve seen everyone and their mother talk about Josh’s  harness.  Mahomes is having surgery on his toe.  It’s a legit injury that has an effect on him throwing the ball.

 

Not saying the toe didn't affect him but the dude ran around for something like 475 yards...you'd think he would have tried to throw more quick passes and dink/dunk to those playmakers the way they did against Buffalo.

[whatdrought]

58 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I shouldn’t say this but I really like Mahomes. 😬 but otherwise, it is kinda of a scummy team. 

I like him in an abstract, distant way. As he is a barrier to our success I hate him, but he seems like a cool kid.

[WideNine]

7 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He’s been doing this all season

They didn’t have Vea for the majority of the season. He came back for the NCFCG

 

You made me delete my reply - but you are absolutely correct. They go from a talented very good defense to a great defense that runs like a well-oiled machine with Vea back in the lineup.

 

Not just another fat guy in the middle trying to hold his ground, he is a force that demands o-line attention and double-teams. Before he was injured PFF graded him as one of the best pure 1-tech NTs in the league: https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-tampa-bay-buccaneers-nose-tackle-vita-vea-becoming-one-of-nfls-best-at-the-position

 

 

That has got to hurt just a bit... 😅

 

 

 

 

 

[Rico]

The look of fear. 

 

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Not saying the toe didn't affect him but the dude ran around for something like 475 yards...you'd think he would have tried to throw more quick passes and dink/dunk to those playmakers the way they did against Buffalo.

Tampa blitzed 6 times the whole game. They were rushing 4 and everyone else was in coverage. It seemed to me that at least one DL was whooping his man on almost every drop back.  I’m eager to see what was open in the all-22.  
 

I don’t think any QBs would’ve had a good game behind that offensive line vs that defensive line.  It was a complete and utter mismatch on paper that ended up even worse when it played out.  
 

I just don’t see why you would compare Allens bad game vs KC to Mahomes bad game vs TB and say Josh handled it better. It’s one game and neither handled it well.  Meanwhile....Mahomes has an mvp, super bowl mvp and a Lombardi. 

[eball]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I just don’t see why you would compare Allens bad game vs KC to Mahomes bad game vs TB and say Josh handled it better. It’s one game and neither handled it well.

 

It's just my opinion.  I said earlier up thread I understand if others see it differently.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, Rico said:

The look of fear. 

 

I don't know that it's fear.  But it's for sure the look of knowing your team's getting whupped and you don't have clear answers.

19 minutes ago, Logic said:

I totally agree about last night's game mirroring the AFCCG.

It was so similar it was downright spooky, actually.

The takeaway? Even elite QBs need protection and open receivers in order to be effective. Even the great magician Patrick Mahomes couldn't conjure up a single touchdown when not given time or open pass catchers.

Watching the Bucs do to the Chiefs EXACTLY what the Chiefs had done to the Bills was crazy. Mahomes spent the night looking like "Bad Josh", too. When Mahomes dropped back, drifted, drifted and ate a sack for 12 yards, putting the Chiefs in 3rd and 33, it was like the Twilight Zone.

All the "mental command" and poise don't mean squat if defenders are closing in on you within 2 seconds of the snap and your receivers are blanketed.

 

This.

 

Except for the key difference that the refs were calling penalties on KC they totally let slide during the AFCCG

[Rico]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't know that it's fear.  But it's for sure the look of knowing your team's getting whupped and you don't have clear answers.

It’s that AND fear.  

[Alphadawg7]

9 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Just thought the community here might want to reach out to our old mate after the man shaming his team got today....

 

Keep in mind that this was someone that joined the forum the year after the Bills traded with the Chiefs for Mahomes to troll us about the Bills picking JA...

 

I’m pretty  happy now how things worked out ...

 

My 2 Cents:

 

While I love it when a troll gets a taste of his own medicine.  BUT...what do we really have to troll here?  

 

Chiefs and Mahomes have been to 3 straight AFCCG...Bills made 1.  Mahomes 3 time MVP finalist, with one MVP.  Allen, 1 time MVP finalist, no MVPs.  Chiefs 2 consecutive SB's, 1 win and 1 SB MVP for Mahomes...Bills no SB appearances.  Mahomes and Chiefs are 2-0 against Allen and Bills (both this year), including the AFCCG to reach the SB.  

 

I love Allen and the future of the Bills.  And truthfully if I could do it all over again, I wouldn't change anything as I would honestly take Tre, Allen, and Edmunds over just Mahomes for the long term.  Allen is closing in on Mahomes (and was just made for Buffalo and couldn't be happier he is our QB) and Tre is an elite first team All Pro DB...that alone is worth it to me, plus regardless of ones feelings on Edmunds, he still is a 2x Pro Bowler who still has a lot more ceiling left.  

 

BUT...facts are facts.  In my book, you can't troll someone whose climbed to the highest peaks of the mountain before you've ever reached the top of the same mountain.

 

6 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Seriously, the Chief fan base took one  Super Bowl to become as arrogant and self righteous as it took Cheater fans after a couple. When we win our SB let’s not talk down and become know it all’s like Chief fans did. 

As for @Zerovoltz I vote he should be banned. Not that I have any pull or sway. That poster was on here 5 mins after the Chiefs won last year gloating. I mean an opposing teams fan board is the last place I would be celebrating. No class. 

 

When he first joined, his banter was very worthy of getting banned no doubt.  But, maybe I just have not seen enough his posts lately, but its been a while since I felt his antics, posts, etc were worthy of being banned.  I can even recall him giving kudos to the Bills and Allen as we continued our ascension.  Again, I dont "follow" him, but just cant think of a moment lately where I saw something the said and felt he said or did something that was worthy of being banned.  

 

5 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

This is false. He was on the forum before the 2017 draft (as a Bills fan) and pushing hard every day on his argument that the Bills needed to draft Mahomes. He switched to the Chiefs because he’s a Mahomes fan, but he still likes the Bills.

 

Ive always been pretty certain (based on when he first arrived) that Zerovoltz is really Jeffismagic who rightfully got banned under that name for his antics here.  Is that what you are referring to as well?

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 Ive always been pretty certain (based on when he first arrived) that Zerovoltz is really Jeffismagic who rightfully got banned under that name for his antics here.  Is that what you are referring to as well?

yep!

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

Much better depth at WR?  Idk man.  I’d take our 5 over their 5.  Sammy missed just about the entire season.

 

Agree to disagree. Diggs is obviously elite. Beasley is a good slot receiver. Beyond that you have John Brown who this year between injuries and age took a step back and never became a big part of the offense. Then a rookie Gabe Davis who has really good sideline footwork but not much pure separation ability and mediocre speed. And then...? Meanwhile the Chiefs have Hill who is elite in his own right. Watkins I would put on par with John Brown this year, like you said his season was too injury prone to make a big difference to the offense, although when on the field he is obviously much better than Brown. Hardman and Pringle are both speedy game breakers which to me is a more valuable trait than sideline footwork.

 

And you have to include Kelce when you're talking about their pass catchers. Like Gronk with Brady. Without him you could say it's close, with him there's no debate. If you want to simplify it the Bills have one elite pass catcher, the Chiefs have two. If you want to call the rest of their pass catchers a wash I would disagree but I won't argue the point too much. Either way the Chiefs weapons across the board have a clear advantage because of their two elite weapons.

 

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

Not enough is said about the KC OLine.  They had the 31st ranked run blocking line this year.  Their offensive line was starting 4 backups last night, 3 of which were switching positions.  They started 3 backups for the last 12 weeks. 

 

Run blocking? Look at run efficiency. The Chiefs were ranked 13th in rush DVOA. Bills were ranked 22nd. That also includes designed Josh Allen runs which I would bet are inflating our ranking even more than if you just looked at the RBs. I don't care if our run blocking was better, our backs were awful. The only time KC really moved the ball consistently yesterday is when Edwards-Helaire had a good run against a light box. The Bills couldn't even manage that.

 

Obviously the Chiefs had poor pass blocking last night but that's the point. Put Mahomes in conditions like Allen saw against the Chiefs and he can't make magic happen. My point isn't that Mahomes is secretly an average QB on a stacked team, it's that Allen and him played at an equal level this year and the primary difference in their production was the support from their respective teams. I could point to a couple areas where I think Allen is even better than Mahomes, namely pocket presence and intermediate accuracy.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, eball said:

 

Not saying the toe didn't affect him but the dude ran around for something like 475 yards...you'd think he would have tried to throw more quick passes and dink/dunk to those playmakers the way they did against Buffalo.

hero ball

[starrymessenger]

Regarding PM’s turf toe I tried to focus on his footwork both running and in his throwing mechanics. I saw nothing to suggest that he was in any way significantly impaired by his injury. Mahomes was pretty much the same guy we are used to seeing. What yesterday’s game shows, and what we already know, is that no QB, not Mahomes or Allen or Brady can survive continuous jailbreaks (especially not Brady).

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Agree to disagree. Diggs is obviously elite. Beasley is a good slot receiver. Beyond that you have John Brown who this year between injuries and age took a step back and never became a big part of the offense. Then a rookie Gabe Davis who has really good sideline footwork but not much pure separation ability and mediocre speed. And then...? Meanwhile the Chiefs have Hill who is elite in his own right. Watkins I would put on par with John Brown this year, like you said his season was too injury prone to make a big difference to the offense, although when on the field he is obviously much better than Brown. Hardman and Pringle are both speedy game breakers which to me is a more valuable trait than sideline footwork.

 

And you have to include Kelce when you're talking about their pass catchers. Like Gronk with Brady. Without him you could say it's close, with him there's no debate. If you want to simplify it the Bills have one elite pass catcher, the Chiefs have two. If you want to call the rest of their pass catchers a wash I would disagree but I won't argue the point too much. Either way the Chiefs weapons across the board have a clear advantage because of their two elite weapons.

 

 

Run blocking? Look at run efficiency. The Chiefs were ranked 13th in rush DVOA. Bills were ranked 22nd. That also includes designed Josh Allen runs which I would bet are inflating our ranking even more than if you just looked at the RBs. I don't care if our run blocking was better, our backs were awful. The only time KC really moved the ball consistently yesterday is when Edwards-Helaire had a good run against a light box. The Bills couldn't even manage that.

 

Obviously the Chiefs had poor pass blocking last night but that's the point. Put Mahomes in conditions like Allen saw against the Chiefs and he can't make magic happen. My point isn't that Mahomes is secretly an average QB on a stacked team, it's that Allen and him played at an equal level this year and the primary difference in their production was the support from their respective teams. I could point to a couple areas where I think Allen is even better than Mahomes, namely pocket presence and intermediate accuracy.

The bills have one of the best WR units in the league.  I saw more than a couple analysts say that we were top in the league.  I agree. Gave David is one of the best 4th wrs in the league and MckenZie is easily one of the best 5th.  Half of the board was calling John Brown a poor #1 last year while being a great number 2.  Some would get mad when I’d call him a good number 2, arguing he’s a 1.  Beasley is the best slot WR in the league and was voted 2 team ALL PRO.  Not pro bowl.  ALL PRO. Along with Diggs, a top 3 WR.  That’s a really good wr unit.  You can argue the semantics  of it all, but using KCs weapons as a negative hit on Mahomes is just lame while our QB has one of the best wr units in the league.  
 

This is how I see the WRs stacking up

Diggs = Tyreek

beasley > sammy

brown > hardman

davis > Pringle 

Mckenzie >= robinson

Again, Kelce is the BIG difference, obviously and gives the chiefs the overall advantage, for sure.

 

The KC OL was a B team all season. Our OL was one of the most effective pass blocking all season.  I don’t have access to any metrics on this, I looked, but all I found was paywalls.  I saw a stat last night, that showed KC 31st in a run blocking metric.  
 

again....the chiefs have a better supporting cast.  The Bills supporting cast isn’t as good.....thanks to Kelce.  I’d take our WRs over theirs
 

you think allen could be as good as Mahomes is right now if he had the same talent around him.  I disagree, mostly because I don’t like talking about make believe stuff that we can’t actually evaluate.  Josh closed the gap big time this season.  I’m eager to see if he can make this a real conversation next year.  I believe he can.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

50 minutes ago, Rico said:

It’s that AND fear.  

 

 

No that's just the look that QB's get when they realize Mike Remmers is their starting tackle in the SB.

 

Two-time SB least valuable player.   

 

[NewEra]

7 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

Regarding PM’s turf toe I tried to focus on his footwork both running and in his throwing mechanics. I saw nothing to suggest that he was in any way significantly impaired by his injury. Mahomes was pretty much the same guy we are used to seeing. What yesterday’s game shows, and what we already know, is that no QB, not Mahomes or Allen or Brady can survive continuous jailbreaks (especially not Brady).

You have no idea.  This is a fact. Stop pretending please

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

I'm still waiting for him to provide any proof that Tyreek Hill was granted full custody of his kid.  It was one of the many created narratives to justify cheering for the poor misunderstood gentleman.  

[Rico]

12 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

Regarding PM’s turf toe I tried to focus on his footwork both running and in his throwing mechanics. I saw nothing to suggest that he was in any way significantly impaired by his injury. Mahomes was pretty much the same guy we are used to seeing. What yesterday’s game shows, and what we already know, is that no QB, not Mahomes or Allen or Brady can survive continuous jailbreaks (especially not Brady).

True, though some are more capable of dealing with it than others. Maybe due to lack of experience in this situation, but the Rat was exposed to being particularly bad at it.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Rico