Thoughts and prayers for Zerovoltz here

[MPT]

14 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Please stop playing make believe.  

What is your point?

 

 

You literally just quoted my point, you dumb *****.

 

If you think Mahomes was that much better than Allen, why didn't he get more MVP votes? You were so sure that a poll would back up your Mahomes ball-washing, so how about you attempt to create an original thought instead of making snide comments.

[Richard Noggin]

4 minutes ago, MPT said:

 

You literally just quoted my point, you dumb *****.

 

If you think Mahomes was that much better than Allen, why didn't he get more MVP votes? You were so sure that a poll would back up your Mahomes ball-washing, so how about you attempt to create an original thought instead of making snide comments.

 

Easy, tiger. Bills Mafia appreciates your tenacity, but you might be guilty of overreacting here. Mahomes is awesome. Allen is awesome. Along with a few other young guns, these guys are evolving the QB position to some extent. But in the playoffs they both ran into opposing defenses they could not overcome. And interestingly, they showed some very similar flaws in those games, perhaps due to being schemed against very similarly. Because they're similar players. 

 

But Mahomes has been demonstrably better in his three years than Allen has been in his. Maybe in 2021 Allen makes yet another leap and surpasses Mahomes. There are some factors lining up in his favor (Mahomes's health, for one). 

 

So relax. Allen is awesome. But he's not the league MVP yet. 

[MPT]

8 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Easy, tiger. Bills Mafia appreciates your tenacity, but you might be guilty of overreacting here. Mahomes is awesome. Allen is awesome. Along with a few other young guns, these guys are evolving the QB position to some extent. But in the playoffs they both ran into opposing defenses they could not overcome. And interestingly, they showed some very similar flaws in those games, perhaps due to being schemed against very similarly. Because they're similar players. 

 

But Mahomes has been demonstrably better in his three years than Allen has been in his. Maybe in 2021 Allen makes yet another leap and surpasses Mahomes. There are some factors lining up in his favor (Mahomes's health, for one). 

 

So relax. Allen is awesome. But he's not the league MVP yet. 

 

May have overreacted. I do not react well to obnoxious retorts.

 

Yes, Mahomes has had a better career so far. But we were talking about this year, and Allen was the better QB against better competition and with less help. 

[Aussie Joe]

2 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

 

I joined to watch how the trade would work and how Allen would work out.  I didn't think Allen would work out at all.  I changed my mind as I watched him develop and do things I didn't think he would ever do.  I have written several posts here defending teh Bills sid of "the trade"  While I have always been a Mahomes fan and happy to talk about him....I have been very complimentary of Allen all season....even moreso than some Bills fans here....he's elite.  He is a franchise QB...you should be glad to have him...and you shouldn't want to trade him....not even for Mahomes...he's your guy...and you can win with him...it's early, you just made the AFCCG with a young franchise guy....there is a very very bright future ahead.....and I've been saying all year how I've been looking forward to these guys going at it for the next decade...

 

....so yes....I came here with intentions of douchebaggery.....I'd like to think if you looked at my posts from year one to now...you'd notice a difference.

 

 

 

Cheers for taking this with the intentions it was meant... just as some friendly banter...

 

I agree that since those early days you have become a big Allen fan

[Richard Noggin]

16 minutes ago, MPT said:

 

May have overreacted. I do not react well to obnoxious retorts.

 

Yes, Mahomes has had a better career so far. But we were talking about this year, and Allen was the better QB against better competition and with less help. 

 

Fair. The Chiefs offensive skill position depth chart is probably better, or at least more explosive.

 

But one could still argue, as Zerovoltz and others have, that while Mahomes has these matchup nightmares to work with at the offensive skill positions, his offensive line has fielded too many backups and JAGs. So maybe the question of who's receiving more or less "help" on the field, with respect to offensive talent, isn't so black-and-white.

 

Then again, I believe Andy Reid is a MUCH better offensive coordinator than Brian Daboll. That's probably obvious, and that definitely "helps" Mahomes.

[NewEra]

8 hours ago, MPT said:

 

You literally just quoted my point, you dumb *****.

 

If you think Mahomes was that much better than Allen, why didn't he get more MVP votes? You were so sure that a poll would back up your Mahomes ball-washing, so how about you attempt to create an original thought instead of making snide comments.

Your point is that that the world thinks Josh is better than Mahomes because:   Get this.........Josh allen received 4 mvp votes and Mahomes received 2.  

MVP voting has nothing to do with who the world thinks is a better QB. You do realize that right?  50 people vote in total.  The mvp voting proves that 4 voters thought allen deserved mvp while 2 voters thought Mahomes deserved it.  You don’t see how this proves nothing and doesn’t prove your “point” in the least?

 

Me making a poll on a bills fan website isn’t representative of how the world sees allen vs Mahomes.  You do realize that right?  I don’t have a platform to make a poll that would be representative of how everyone,

not just bills fans, feel about the topic. 

 

how are my comments snide?  Because I think Mahomes has earned the right to be called the best QB?  
 

Mahomes isn’t THAT much better than allen.....he has accomplished everything a QB needs to accomplished and he’s done it in his first 2 years.as a starter.   He’s had a much better career, partly due to having a great system and weapons around him since his first day.  Partly due to his QB ability.  

You don’t just get anointed the best QB in the league after having one below average to poor rookie year (with terrible weapons), 1 pretty 2nd season (and having a 2nd half meltdown in his first playoff game) and a phenomenal 3rd season (Which ends in a one sided beatdown at the hands of the reigning “best QB”.  Mahomes is the best.  Allen has the ability/drive to take that spot on top the mountain.....but he’s not there yet and I won’t pretend that he is there.  I’ll leave that to you

 

 

8 hours ago, MPT said:

 

May have overreacted. I do not react well to obnoxious retorts.

 

Yes, Mahomes has had a better career so far. But we were talking about this year, and Allen was the better QB against better competition and with less help. 

YOU are talking about this year.  Please don’t tell me what I’M talking about. I’m talking about in general.....Pat Mahomes is recognized as the best player in the league.  He has earned it.  Josh has not.  And for that, I’m an obnoxious retort, while you fly off the handle and resort to name calling.... the irony 

[Beerball]

9 hours ago, MPT said:

 

You literally just quoted my point, you dumb *****.

Your mean

[machine gun kelly]

New Era and MPT, sounds like guys need to go to their corner.  You both made very good points.  The problem I’m not perfect but really try to not make it personal and just agree to disagree.  
 

I think both of you guys have good arguments.  Anyway, we’re just having fun.  Thank you for sharing seriously both of you.

[NewEra]

41 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

New Era and MPT, sounds like guys need to go to their corner.  You both made very good points.  The problem I’m not perfect but really try to not make it personal and just agree to disagree.  
 

I think both of you guys have good arguments.  Anyway, we’re just having fun.  Thank you for sharing seriously both of you.

I hate to continue the back and forth, but he’s the one that is taking this personally.  Dude is calling me names and taking character swipes at me.  I’ve done none of the above to him.  I stated that Mahomes is the best player in the league and that Josh is an ascending QB that has all the tools and gifts to be the best QB ever.  He had an amazing season and is an elite QB, but he isn’t as good as Mahomes.....yet.......and bruh gets all bent out of shape and carried away with name calling and insults. 

 

 

@machine gun kelly I appreciate your post.  Your always a friendly and amicable voice of reason, always encouraging love and happiness ❤️ 😊 

[machine gun kelly]

52 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I hate to continue the back and forth, but he’s the one that is taking this personally.  Dude is calling me names and taking character swipes at me.  I’ve done none of the above to him.  I stated that Mahomes is the best player in the league and that Josh is an ascending QB that has all the tools and gifts to be the best QB ever.  He had an amazing season and is an elite QB, but he isn’t as good as Mahomes.....yet.......and bruh gets all bent out of shape and carried away with name calling and insults. 

 

 

@machine gun kelly I appreciate your post.  Your always a friendly and amicable voice of reason, always encouraging love and happiness ❤️ 😊 

Thanks bud.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Fair. The Chiefs offensive skill position depth chart is probably better, or at least more explosive.

 

But one could still argue, as Zerovoltz and others have, that while Mahomes has these matchup nightmares to work with at the offensive skill positions, his offensive line has fielded too many backups and JAGs. So maybe the question of who's receiving more or less "help" on the field, with respect to offensive talent, isn't so black-and-white.

 

Then again, I believe Andy Reid is a MUCH better offensive coordinator than Brian Daboll. That's probably obvious, and that definitely "helps" Mahomes.

 

A point that some who watched Reid coach in his Philly days and early on in KC felt he had strong limitations as a play designer and play caller.  So much so that (I believe) Tony Dungy said on TV after a KC playoff loss in which he criticized Reid's playcalling, "the Chiefs may win a Championship but it won't be with Andy Reid as coach".   It stuck in my memory because I thought it was unusually blunt words for Dungy.

 

Well, that take didn't age well.  My point is that to my observation, Reid has evolved as an offensive coach in KC.  Having the additional vocabulary introduced first by having Kelce, then Hill, then Mahomes no doubt drove his evolution.

 

I think Daboll has evolved as a coach and coordinator in the 3 years he's been here, and in part for the same reasons.  I don't think he's done.  Like Allen, he appears to be highly driven.

 

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

7 hours ago, NewEra said:

Your point is that that the world thinks Josh is better than Mahomes because:   Get this.........Josh allen received 4 mvp votes and Mahomes received 2.  

MVP voting has nothing to do with who the world thinks is a better QB. You do realize that right?  50 people vote in total.  The mvp voting proves that 4 voters thought allen deserved mvp while 2 voters thought Mahomes deserved it.  You don’t see how this proves nothing and doesn’t prove your “point” in the least?

 

Me making a poll on a bills fan website isn’t representative of how the world sees allen vs Mahomes.  You do realize that right?  I don’t have a platform to make a poll that would be representative of how everyone,

not just bills fans, feel about the topic. 

 

how are my comments snide?  Because I think Mahomes has earned the right to be called the best QB?  
 

Mahomes isn’t THAT much better than allen.....he has accomplished everything a QB needs to accomplished and he’s done it in his first 2 years.as a starter.   He’s had a much better career, partly due to having a great system and weapons around him since his first day.  Partly due to his QB ability.  

You don’t just get anointed the best QB in the league after having one below average to poor rookie year (with terrible weapons), 1 pretty 2nd season (and having a 2nd half meltdown in his first playoff game) and a phenomenal 3rd season (Which ends in a one sided beatdown at the hands of the reigning “best QB”.  Mahomes is the best.  Allen has the ability/drive to take that spot on top the mountain.....but he’s not there yet and I won’t pretend that he is there.  I’ll leave that to you

 

 

YOU are talking about this year.  Please don’t tell me what I’M talking about. I’m talking about in general.....Pat Mahomes is recognized as the best player in the league.  He has earned it.  Josh has not.  And for that, I’m an obnoxious retort, while you fly off the handle and resort to name calling.... the irony 

And even this year, sitting Week 17, Mahomes tallied 4,740, 38 and 6.

 

Allen went for 4,544, 37 and 10.

 

So they had similar seasons this year, and of course Allen is going to be the better runner.
 

But Mahomes has been 105+ passer rating for 3-straight seasons, Josh has done it once.

 

I agree with you New Era, despite Allen’s step forward this season, Mahomes sitting at 114 TDs and 24 Ints in his career with a 108.7 rating is thought of as the best QB in the league, not Allen. 
 

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Straight Hucklebuck

[Meatloaf63]

17 hours ago, NewEra said:

Please stop playing make believe.  

What is your point?

 

Um it’s a discussion board and when comparing players it’s not all happening in a vacuum. So comparisons always should have basis for discussion. Nothing wrong at all with what he said. The reality is every Qb plays in a different environment than every other QB which is just one of the things that affects performance.

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Um it’s a discussion board and when comparing players it’s not all happening in a vacuum. So comparisons always should have basis for discussion. Nothing wrong at all with what he said. The reality is every Qb plays in a different environment than every other QB which is just one of the things that affects performance.

 

my bad. 

 

“What if’s” just aren’t my thing.  
 

What if phil jackson didn’t have Michael, Scotty, Kobe and Shaq?  We know he wouldn’t have 11 rings?
 

what if Belichick didn’t have Brady?

 

what if Serena Williams didn’t have Venus as her older sister?

 

Its like Mr. Rogers land of make believe.  We can’t actually have an intelligent conversation about it.  It becomes 💯 speculation.  The conversation we were having was 💯 real.  Talking about things that actually happened.  Facts. Not make believe. 
 

That’s my take on the matter.  You disagree with it and it’s all good man

[Meatloaf63]

Just now, NewEra said:

 

my bad. 

 

“What if’s” just aren’t my thing.  
 

What if phil jackson didn’t have Michael, Scotty, Kobe and Shaq?  We know he wouldn’t have 11 rings?
 

what if Belichick didn’t have Brady?

 

what if Serena Williams didn’t have Venus as her older sister?

 

Its like Mr. Rogers land of make believe.  We can’t actually have an intelligent conversation about it.  It becomes 💯 speculation.  The conversation we were having was 💯 real.  Talking about things that actually happened.  Facts. Not make believe. 
 

That’s my take on the matter.  You disagree with it and it’s all good man

I hope I didn’t come off as a douche, season is over so I enjoy the conversation. 

[NewEra]

5 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

I hope I didn’t come off as a douche, season is over so I enjoy the conversation. 

Not at all.  Looks like I did though.  Apologies.

 

I’ve taken a beating for defending the Bills new arch nemesis.  If I get snarky, I’m sorry.  

[goober]

Poor Zerovoltz.  First the pain of his hero losing the game and now the thread in is honor has been completely overshadowed by this never-ending debate.

[UKBillFan]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Not at all.  Looks like I did though.  Apologies.

 

I’ve taken a beating for defending the Bills new arch nemesis.  If I get snarky, I’m sorry.  

I think it’s doubly difficult because Josh is so well liked as well, so people end up almost overly defending him. The fact is we’ve seen Super Bowl winning Quarterbacks go backwards for no discernible reason so nothing is set in stone for one year to the next. Josh’s improvements have been sublime over the past year and we can only hope it continues into the next season. I’d argue he’s good enough to win the Super Bowl now but, as with all Quarterbacks, it isn’t just about him.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, goober said:

Poor Zerovoltz.  First the pain of his hero losing the game and now the thread in is honor has been completely overshadowed by this never-ending debate.

 

Well...I didn't think the thread is exactly in his honor....😈

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, goober said:

Poor Zerovoltz.  First the pain of his hero losing the game and now the thread in is honor has been completely overshadowed by this never-ending debate.

It’s not really a debate is it?  As we speak, Mahomes IS better than Allen.  Maybe that changes next year?  Sure hope so and wouldn’t be shocked.  I’d be most shocked that MY qb is the best QB in the league.  Never in my life would I think that would be the case. 17 has a chance