America’s trade gap soared under Trump, final figures show

[JaCrispy]

13 hours ago, Backintheday544 said:

hmmmmm.... it’s almost as if you look at numbers at two different time periods the numbers may change.

 

Your article is like turning the Bills on with a 9 point lead over the chiefs. The OPs article is like the final score.

Looks like the pandemic may have been the deciding factor...

[SectionC3]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

Also true. But it has to start somewhere. The idea was to first become energy independent so that now we had our feet under us and weren’t as reliant on foreign oil which had drug us into years of war, death and debt. That investment buys you the time you need to grow the technologies for the transition you seek. It’s a lot like being in debt at home. Unless you can first get out of debt, you’ll never get around to saving money. (PS: my home has been solar powered for a decade...is yours?)

 

No, but I wish it was.  Sun score is pretty good, but I have a very, very strange roof (the house is pretty modern) and solar is a tough install.  

[SoCal Deek]

5 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

No, but I wish it was.  Sun score is pretty good, but I have a very, very strange roof (the house is pretty modern) and solar is a tough install.  

I’m an architect. Let me take a crack at it! My power bill is less than $5.00 per month. 
Gotta go now but thanks for the dialogue. Much appreciated! 

[Niagara Bill]

1 hour ago, SectionC3 said:

 

This isn't exactly true.  The primary goal is to have everyone working at a livable wage.  

That would be socialism, a terrible word in the USA. 

[SoTier]

55 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Thanks. If you study American history you’ll know that the middle class was born from our manufacturing base during and after WW2. We lost that over the last two or three decades. Those blue collar folks were not highly educated and didn’t need to be. So fast forward to today and you find the natural divide that comes from the transition to a service based economy. Trump was trying to bend the curve back to where we still had a manufacturing base and did a decent job of it, through policy. We simply don’t need that many accountants, lawyers and coders in America. 

 

The US has had a relatively large middle class throughout most of its history.  Prior to WW II, the middle class was primarily comprised of small businessmen, including successful farmers and craftsmen, and professionals.  As the US economy expanded after the Civil War, an expanding group of managers and technicians joined the middle class.  The expansion of the middle class to include significant numbers of unskilled and semi-skilled wage earners coincided with the implementation of wage and hour regs that were part of the New Deal and the rise of unionization of major industries after WW II that significantly raised income and provided benefits.

 

Unfortunately, technology has shrunk the need for -- and therefore the value of --- unskilled and semi-skilled labor, which has translated into job losses and wage declines.   That's been a reality since at least the early 1970s.  Fewer workers produce more product, and that's not just the reality for blue collar workers but also for pink collar office workers (ie, there's no longer a typing pool).   Unskilled and semi-skilled workers face a bleak future with limited job opportunities and low wages.  Politicians who claim otherwise are conning their constituents.   There is no "bending back the curve" because we can't turn the clock back 60 or 70 years. 

[Niagara Bill]

trump ran trade with smoke and mirrors.

For example. He put a 25% tariff on certain steels and aluminum from Canada based on National security. He also did the same with certain softwood lumber. The only affect it had was

1. Increased new home prices in US

2. Increased prices of washing machines and dryers made in US. , which is about 20% of the sales.

The US citizens paid the price and the the US treasury got an increase.

 

90 days later he quietly reversed the policy.

Trade practices between Canada and US had been negotiated thru NAFTA and new nafta. Mechanisms were in place. 

 

Smoke and mirrors....

73,000,000 people accepted he was doing his job...

[US Egg]

3 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

 

Dumbass Trumpists gonna make dumbass arguments defending their hero's lies and failures.

Dumbass Bidenistas kissing his wrinkled posterior and worse.

[Tenhigh]

1 hour ago, Niagara Bill said:

That would be socialism, a terrible word in the USA. 

Capitalism is the American way, Bill.  You may not love it from your side of the border, but it's ingrained into our DNA.  At least for many Americans.  

[Niagara Bill]

I fully understand that. Socialism is a word that raises the ire of most citizens. While the US has many socialist programs, capitalism is the driving force, and it many ways it has worked. 

1 hour ago, Tenhigh said:

Capitalism is the American way, Bill.  You may not love it from your side of the border, but it's ingrained into our DNA.  At least for many Americans.  

 

[Tenhigh]

9 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

I fully understand that. Socialism is a word that raises the ire of most citizens. While the US has many socialist programs, capitalism is the driving force, and it many ways it has worked. 

 

This is true. To many Americans socialism represents people getting something for nothing, and the lazy reaping the benefits of the hard working.   American ideals always promised that "if you work hard you can get ahead".  The unspoken part of that declaration is that you reap the fruit of your own labor and aren't responsible for everyone else's well being.   

But our borders are now open, so come on down so YOU can reap the rewards of MY grueling desk job. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Tenhigh

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 2/6/2021 at 10:55 AM, SoCal Deek said:

I’m an architect. Let me take a crack at it! My power bill is less than $5.00 per month. 
Gotta go now but thanks for the dialogue. Much appreciated! 

Incredible 

On 2/6/2021 at 11:13 AM, SoTier said:

 

The US has had a relatively large middle class throughout most of its history.  Prior to WW II, the middle class was primarily comprised of small businessmen, including successful farmers and craftsmen, and professionals.  As the US economy expanded after the Civil War, an expanding group of managers and technicians joined the middle class.  The expansion of the middle class to include significant numbers of unskilled and semi-skilled wage earners coincided with the implementation of wage and hour regs that were part of the New Deal and the rise of unionization of major industries after WW II that significantly raised income and provided benefits.

 

Unfortunately, technology has shrunk the need for -- and therefore the value of --- unskilled and semi-skilled labor, which has translated into job losses and wage declines.   That's been a reality since at least the early 1970s.  Fewer workers produce more product, and that's not just the reality for blue collar workers but also for pink collar office workers (ie, there's no longer a typing pool).   Unskilled and semi-skilled workers face a bleak future with limited job opportunities and low wages.  Politicians who claim otherwise are conning their constituents.   There is no "bending back the curve" because we can't turn the clock back 60 or 70 years. 

plumbers and electricians make a killing, well at least their hourly rates... 

[Buftex]

On 2/6/2021 at 10:39 AM, I am the egg man said:

Dumbass Bidenistas kissing his wrinkled posterior and worse.

Burn!

[SoTier]

54 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Incredible 

plumbers and electricians make a killing, well at least their hourly rates... 

 

Plumbers and electricians aren't unskilled or semi-skilled workers.  Most take coursework in high school or community college and then work under the supervision of experienced plumbers or electricians for several months or years.  Unionized plumbers and electricians make really good money and have benefits, but those that work for small plumbing businesses don't make all that much.  The high hourly rates are divided between the actual worker(s) and the business owner.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

11 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Plumbers and electricians aren't unskilled or semi-skilled workers.  Most take coursework in high school or community college and then work under the supervision of experienced plumbers or electricians for several months or years.  Unionized plumbers and electricians make really good money and have benefits, but those that work for small plumbing businesses don't make all that much.  The high hourly rates are divided between the actual worker(s) and the business owner.

right I wasn’t calling it unskilled I guess as much as just that trades are often given a bad rap and I believe anyone that is reasonably motivated and willing to learn can pick up some of these trades and make a great living.  But at entry level they still do decently and can grow their own business or through the certification ranks or facilities jobs over time. 
 

I agree for the unwilling or unable that are destined for a career of minimum wage at best (I believe the unable to be the smallest contingent btw) there continues to be a decline in employment opportunities, but it is somewhat offset with the explosion in service industry jobs, like Uber, Grubhub, etc) 
 

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[SoCal Deek]

17 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

right I wasn’t calling it unskilled I guess as much as just that trades are often given a bad rap and I believe anyone that is reasonably motivated and willing to learn can pick up some of these trades and make a great living.  But at entry level they still do decently and can grow their own business or through the certification ranks or facilities jobs over time. 
 

I agree for the unwilling or unable that are destined for a career of minimum wage at best (I believe the unable to be the smallest contingent btw) there continues to be a decline in employment opportunities, but it is somewhat offset with the explosion in service industry jobs, like Uber, Grubhub, etc) 
 

 

This is purely anecdotal but as I stated above, I’m an architect in California. Over the last twenty years I’ve watched as those skilled plumbers and electricians jobs are all being done by people who speak nothing but Spanish on my job sites. It used to be only the landscaping crew spoke Spanish. Now, virtually every trade does. These are Union wage scale construction jobs. Is it that Americans don’t want to do this work? Are we not reinforcing it enough in high school with the drumbeat that everyone has to go to college. Has the balance shifted so far that no American kids want to jump into that Spanish speaking setting? 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

This is purely anecdotal but as I stated above, I’m an architect in California. Over the last twenty years I’ve watched as those skilled plumbers and electricians jobs are all being done by people who speak nothing but Spanish on my job sites. It used to be only the landscaping crew spoke Spanish. Now, virtually every trade does. These are Union wage scale construction jobs. Is it that Americans don’t want to do this work? Are we not reinforcing it enough in high school with the drumbeat that everyone has to go to college. Has the balance shifted so far that no American kids want to jump into that Spanish speaking setting? 

I’m not old enough to be a boomer but in my 23 years of working I have supervised in combination hundreds of interns, college hires, older millennials, first generation Americans, second generation Americans, multiple generation Americans, h1b visa holders, naturalized citizens in the southeast and mid Atlantic us.

 

The opinion I’ve formed is more often than not, multigenerational Americans as a generalization don’t take school very seriously and aren’t interested in working very hard or earning their way to success through hard work, whereas those motivated to uproot their lives to move to a different country, or not far removed from those relatives that did, tend to be the opposite. 

[SoCal Deek]

5 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I’m not old enough to be a boomer but in my 23 years of working I have supervised in combination hundreds of interns, college hires, older millennials, first generation Americans, second generation Americans, multiple generation Americans, h1b visa holders, naturalized citizens in the southeast and mid Atlantic us.

 

The opinion I’ve formed is more often than not, multigenerational Americans as a generalization don’t take school very seriously and aren’t interested in working very hard or earning their way to success through hard work, whereas those motivated to uproot their lives to move to a different country, or not far removed from those relatives that did, tend to be the opposite. 

This is definitely true as well. We sound like a couple of grumpy old men but I’m concerned that the wealth gap Bernie and others are always talking about is self inflicted...even if unintended. This might be even more exaggerated after the pandemic teaches employers that they can offshore almost all office jobs...since there won’t be any offices! Then what are American kids going to do? 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

This is definitely true as well. We sound like a couple of grumpy old men but I’m concerned that the wealth gap Bernie and others are always talking about is self inflicted...even if unintended. This might be even more exaggerated after the pandemic teaches employers that they can offshore almost all office jobs...since there won’t be any offices! Then what are American kids going to do? 

I think it’s absolutely self inflicted. I’ve always believed as these artificial barriers were removed the us was in for a rude awakening. I’m fine with globalization, but people need to understand what that means.
 

Minimum wage in China is $1.50/hr. We want to raise it to $15?  Well you better be 10 times better than your competitor in China, otherwise you’re losing your job. 

the other part is this is very close to a zero sum game. Since our standard of living is so high, as we equalize, we’ve already got the top of the pyramid, so the only thing that is likely to move at this point is the floor. 
 

in simple terms in American kids need to focus on producing as opposed to consuming. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Unforgiven]

Fine Figure

 

 

 

Edited February 14, 2021 by Unforgiven

[Thurmal34]

Out of curiousity, have you ever seen the map of what part of our current lower 48 was settled by Spain vs what part was settled by England vs what part was settled by France?

 

sorry guys this was meant for SoCalDeek and NOT in an adversarial way just more of an informative way.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Thurmal34