klos63 Posted February 5, 2021 Posted February 5, 2021 Look at the 4 teams in the conference championship games. 4 elite QB'S. I think teams in both conferences know they need to be better than those 4 teams to win in the next few seasons. Goff won't beat them, Watson could, maybe Stafford.... , why pay $30M+ per season for a QB that can't beat the guys ahead of him.
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 5, 2021 Posted February 5, 2021 1 minute ago, klos63 said: Look at the 4 teams in the conference championship games. 4 elite QB'S. I think teams in both conferences know they need to be better than those 4 teams to win in the next few seasons. Goff won't beat them, Watson could, maybe Stafford.... , why pay $30M+ per season for a QB that can't beat the guys ahead of him. I don't think Allen is in that category yet. Allen is still in the Goff, Wentz, Tannehill, Prescott, Cousins,... category.
Doc Posted February 5, 2021 Posted February 5, 2021 13 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: I think Watson changed the game. Not Mahomes or Allen. Teams never trade a young top QB in their prime. There is too much risk. With Watson likely traded every GM/owner knows whatever they do will be lessened because Watson also was traded. I think Jay Cutler is the best young starting QB traded. Just shows young starters don't get traded. I also think Dallas is attempting to change how QB gets paid. Goff and Wentz might have scared off Dallas. If you sign these QB's to contracts and they don't continue to earn it well you're in a deep hole. Watson isn't likely to be traded. For the reason you bolded. 5 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: I don't think Allen is in that category yet. Allen is still in the Goff, Wentz, Tannehill, Prescott, Cousins,... category. Josh is in the elite category already. Prescott might be as well. 1 1
eball Posted February 5, 2021 Posted February 5, 2021 I think Josh Allen's success has caused other teams to remember that having a franchise QB is a very good thing in the NFL.
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 5, 2021 Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Doc said: Watson isn't likely to be traded. For the reason you bolded. Josh is in the elite category already. Prescott might be as well. You don't get elite status after 1 season. He's on his way. Edited February 5, 2021 by Buffalo_Stampede 1
Dukestreetking Posted February 5, 2021 Posted February 5, 2021 I interpret @McMuffinquestion to mean, "has JA changed how teams draft/otherwise obtain their QB?" Answer: yes. JA had measurable/readily observable physical tools, though w flaws. But what I kept hearing fr McBeane/org was the value they placed on his intangible potentials (IPs). IPs: coachability, learning velocity, leadership growth, internal critique process, work ethic, team fit, city fit and so many others. Aside fr wonderlic and team visits, IPs are difficult to empirically measure. Now, have teams looked at such traits in the past? Of course, but clearly Buffalo's due diligence was spot on wrt Allen. Bottom line: I suspect teams will be hitting up Bills leadership for tips/insight into their process. How did they so thoroughly nail this intangible potential piece? Specifically, the kinds of things we don't hear about in TV interviews.
GunnerBill Posted February 5, 2021 Posted February 5, 2021 6 hours ago, dave mcbride said: Where do folks place Justin Herbert on this spectrum? I ask because along with Russell Wilson in 2012 and maybe Marino in 1983, that was the most impressive rookie season for a qb I’ve seen. I think Herbert can be an off script playmaker. Burrow maybe a tad less and that is why right now I'd have his ceiling lower. 1
klos63 Posted February 5, 2021 Posted February 5, 2021 8 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: I don't think Allen is in that category yet. Allen is still in the Goff, Wentz, Tannehill, Prescott, Cousins,... category. You can argue that he is much better than those QB's, Prescott is probably in the same category as Allen. Teams saw that Allen was the main reason the Bills won the division and a key reason they won both playoff games. He'll likely finish in the top 3 MVP along with Mahomes and Rogers. 1
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 6, 2021 Posted February 6, 2021 1 hour ago, klos63 said: You can argue that he is much better than those QB's, Prescott is probably in the same category as Allen. Teams saw that Allen was the main reason the Bills won the division and a key reason they won both playoff games. He'll likely finish in the top 3 MVP along with Mahomes and Rogers. He had a great year. You get contracts off of great years. No one will mention Allen positively in the future if that's the only year he does it. He's not in the same class as Brady, Rodgers, and Mahomes. He's on his way though. So have other QB's. Derek Carr was on his way.
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 6, 2021 Posted February 6, 2021 21 hours ago, billsfan89 said: Allen is a lesson in wholistic scouting. You have to examine why a player is inaccurate in college and assess if they can improve in the pros. You can't just rely on analytics and past results. Eh. I think the Allen prospect fails 99% of the time. McBeane are geniuses for finding a 🦄. I guess a counter could be that with the league rules, the athletic, not completely polished qb has a much better shot of succeeding I guess. But I can’t believe a qb who was meh at Wyoming became a superstar in the nfl. It’s insane and speaks volumes about Allen’s work ethic and the Bills. 2
CincyBillsFan Posted February 6, 2021 Posted February 6, 2021 (edited) 40 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Eh. I think the Allen prospect fails 99% of the time. McBeane are geniuses for finding a 🦄. I guess a counter could be that with the league rules, the athletic, not completely polished qb has a much better shot of succeeding I guess. But I can’t believe a qb who was meh at Wyoming became a superstar in the nfl. It’s insane and speaks volumes about Allen’s work ethic and the Bills. The idea that Allen was "meh" at Wyoming depends on you having only looked at his stats and not watched any Wyoming games. Years ago I stumbled on an Allen/Wyoming game late on Saturday night (it was 2 years before he declared for the NFL) and couldn't believe what I was seeing the WY QB do. Some of his throws and sack escapes defied logic to my football mind. I started making it a point to catch Allen's games after that night and the first thing you came to understand was that Allen's stats meant nothing. He was doing things that no other QB in college football was doing. And I watch a lot of college football. I remember thinking wouldn't it be nice if the Bills drafted this guy in the 4th round in a couple of years as an experiment. Little did I know. Needless to say I was thrilled when the Bills made him their pick. I wasn't sure if Allen would work out in the pros but I damn sure knew it would be entertaining. Edited February 6, 2021 by CincyBillsFan 1
boater Posted February 6, 2021 Posted February 6, 2021 On 2/4/2021 at 9:01 PM, Southern_Bills said: Not sure it's all Allen/Mahomes, its just the league understands there isn't enough QBs for 32 teams. If one is available you have to go get it. This. College circuit doesn't make enough QBs to keep 32 NFL teams fully stocked.
Saxum Posted February 6, 2021 Posted February 6, 2021 Allen is the new standard on QBs willing to work during offseason. Many QBs spend a lot of time on socialization rather than working on their craft carefully self-critiquing their performance and getting advice to improve. All players should be doing that since they are being paid a full time salary unlike earlier years when players used to do other jobs during offseason. It is ironic that Allen who did not attend camp after camp is one who is willing work so hard during off season. Many players in NFL seem to seem off season is a vacation and NFLPA seems to think so as well wanting to eliminate mini-camps, preseason games, etc. They do not care of players show up in camp out of shape and lose jobs or players are not able to learn schemes and proper techniques of NFL. I guess I can see their point for it is same amount of money and less work for people paid to their jobs. They are real good examples for players. 1
Buffalo716 Posted February 6, 2021 Posted February 6, 2021 13 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: I don't think Allen is in that category yet. Allen is still in the Goff, Wentz, Tannehill, Prescott, Cousins,... category. Goff wentz tannehill Prescott and cousins have never all prod They can't hold a candle to Josh Allen's talent
Solomon Grundy Posted February 6, 2021 Posted February 6, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: He had a great year. You get contracts off of great years. No one will mention Allen positively in the future if that's the only year he does it. He's not in the same class as Brady, Rodgers, and Mahomes. He's on his way though. So have other QB's. Derek Carr was on his way. Wait...didn’t Matt Flynn get that big contract in Seattle off of one good year in GB? Edited February 6, 2021 by Solomon Grundy
zow2 Posted February 6, 2021 Posted February 6, 2021 On 2/4/2021 at 9:22 PM, billsfan89 said: Allen is a lesson in wholistic scouting. You have to examine why a player is inaccurate in college and assess if they can improve in the pros. You can't just rely on analytics and past results. Mahomes too. He had some crazy Big12 stats to his name but there were all sorts of naysayers after he was drafted. Like Allen, he’s turned out Better in the NFL than he was in college.
JerseyBills Posted February 6, 2021 Posted February 6, 2021 (edited) Only guy I keep thinking of is Jameis Winston His skillset is elite but his mind isn't. Right QB coach and OC ,Jameis could strive Edited February 6, 2021 by JerseyBills
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 6, 2021 Posted February 6, 2021 20 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said: The idea that Allen was "meh" at Wyoming depends on you having only looked at his stats and not watched any Wyoming games. Years ago I stumbled on an Allen/Wyoming game late on Saturday night (it was 2 years before he declared for the NFL) and couldn't believe what I was seeing the WY QB do. Some of his throws and sack escapes defied logic to my football mind. I started making it a point to catch Allen's games after that night and the first thing you came to understand was that Allen's stats meant nothing. He was doing things that no other QB in college football was doing. And I watch a lot of college football. I remember thinking wouldn't it be nice if the Bills drafted this guy in the 4th round in a couple of years as an experiment. Little did I know. Needless to say I was thrilled when the Bills made him their pick. I wasn't sure if Allen would work out in the pros but I damn sure knew it would be entertaining. I guess. I watched his games against Iowa and Oregon and it looked like every other overhyped guy with all the tools. I still believe that a guy with his talent should dominate a conference like that even if he doesn’t have top talent around him. I would say that if Wilson and Trey Lance had similar stats as Allen in college. I’m giving all the credit in the world to Allen and the Bills because normally guys like this end up being Hackenburg, Jake Locker, or Mallett and not becoming a top 5 qb. It’s truly impressive. On 2/4/2021 at 9:22 PM, billsfan89 said: Allen is a lesson in wholistic scouting. You have to examine why a player is inaccurate in college and assess if they can improve in the pros. You can't just rely on analytics and past results. But I think the overwhelming evidence is a guy under 60% in college in this era (please don’t post Johnny Utias’ college stats 😆), especially in a conference like the MWC, are never going to be franchise nfl qbs. McBeane are absolute geniuses for finding a unicorn.
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