K-9 Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 5 hours ago, H2o said: I know this has been discussed before, but I'm going to re-hash it again. Ed is on the light side for a DT playing between 280-290lbs. Yes, I know, so is Aaron Donald. On the interior of the defense Ed gets a ton of double teams and this year they had him playing out of position at the 1-Tech on many occasions. We did see flashes from him as a rookie at the 3-Tech though. I still wonder if he would not be better served, as well as the team by his possible production at the position, by a move to DE? Take a look at his Combine and Pro Day results. You know who Ed Oliver's numbers comp to, almost identical, and he weighs about 10lbs more than this person? Myles Garrett. Not saying he is just like Myles Garrett or would immediately put up Myles Garrett numbers at the position, but I think Ed could be a beast playing DE. Hughes isn't getting any younger. Murphy is gone. We're not sure what will happen with Addison. What will Epenesa end up being after a full offseason in the strength and conditioning program? To me this just makes sense. Reggie White was a 290lb defensive end and one of the most fearsome to ever play the game. I think they should give him a look there and see what happens. That 31 3/4” arm length precludes Oliver from playing the position. It really is that simple.
GunnerBill Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 3 hours ago, Motorin' said: Would we have been better off giving Shaq Lawson the 30 mil we gave to Mario Addison? I don't know how the details matchup, but Miami gave Shaq a 30 mil contract. Yes. Without doubt. As for the OP? No. Ed is a 3 tech and potentially a very good one. 1
John from Riverside Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 Ed is right where he needs to be...he just needs a true space eater next to him 1
The Now Moment Posted February 5, 2021 Posted February 5, 2021 24 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Say more - who do you like at DE? Carlos Basham Jr. is an immediate impact player at the end position imo. Size, speed, strength, motor...contributes both in pass rush and as a run defender. Ideal scenario in a perfect world would be to trade down into the early second and grab another mid round pick in the process. Plays outside but has the ability to kick inside as well. There are many other guys that I’d be interested in but for a year one impact edge rusher, he’s the guy imo.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 5, 2021 Posted February 5, 2021 22 minutes ago, The Now Moment said: Carlos Basham Jr. is an immediate impact player at the end position imo. Size, speed, strength, motor...contributes both in pass rush and as a run defender. Ideal scenario in a perfect world would be to trade down into the early second and grab another mid round pick in the process. Plays outside but has the ability to kick inside as well. There are many other guys that I’d be interested in but for a year one impact edge rusher, he’s the guy imo. So curious - if he's an immediate impact player at end with size speed strength and motor, able to play both run and pass ....why do we think he'll last to the early second? As Beane said last year about good pass rushers who can contribute immediately, "those guys don't last long"
TheyCallMeAndy Posted February 5, 2021 Posted February 5, 2021 I don’t understand the folks who won’t even ponder this, Ed is a great athlete with real speed at 287. I remember reading college reports that he struggles to stay above 285. He’s definitely not a bad DT, he could be a great LE though.
BobbyC81 Posted February 5, 2021 Posted February 5, 2021 17 hours ago, hjnick said: can oliver bend like a good Edge rusher needs to do? Bruce was the best at it. Man did he get low. Bad things, man!
GunnerBill Posted February 5, 2021 Posted February 5, 2021 11 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: So curious - if he's an immediate impact player at end with size speed strength and motor, able to play both run and pass ....why do we think he'll last to the early second? As Beane said last year about good pass rushers who can contribute immediately, "those guys don't last long" My take is Basham is not entirely dissimilar to AJ Epenesa when we took him last year. He can play the run and set the edge and has some skills as a power rusher but he isn't the fast twitch, bendy guy who is gonna beat good NFL tackles off the edge. I think he will go early-mid 2nd round, but this is not a great edge class IMO so teams will be all over the map on them and he could get pushed up I suppose. 8 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said: I don’t understand the folks who won’t even ponder this, Ed is a great athlete with real speed at 287. I remember reading college reports that he struggles to stay above 285. He’s definitely not a bad DT, he could be a great LE though. It is lack of length and bend.
The Now Moment Posted February 5, 2021 Posted February 5, 2021 12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: So curious - if he's an immediate impact player at end with size speed strength and motor, able to play both run and pass ....why do we think he'll last to the early second? As Beane said last year about good pass rushers who can contribute immediately, "those guys don't last long" Lacks the bend and speed off the edge of what an ideal first round talent provides. I don’t think it hurts him that much but like Espenesa, he might be asked to lose a few pounds to gain some quickness and overall speed around the edge. His ceiling athletically appears limited and might push him down into the second round or even further. Similar to Espenesa imo. He has the production but like almost all lineman coming into the NFL needs to add functional strength and perhaps a trimming of weight would help with his lack of burst. McDermott has played with heavier DEs in Carolina and he fits that role. Not a pure pass rusher but a solid overall DE imo. NFL conditioning will be his best friend and being in a rotation will likely help conserve some of his burst. It depends on how the players fall. There’s plenty of interesting DE options at the edge of the first round to the beginning of the 3rd round conversation that are intriguing.
bobobonators Posted February 5, 2021 Posted February 5, 2021 19 hours ago, H2o said: I know this has been discussed before, but I'm going to re-hash it again. Ed is on the light side for a DT playing between 280-290lbs. Yes, I know, so is Aaron Donald. On the interior of the defense Ed gets a ton of double teams and this year they had him playing out of position at the 1-Tech on many occasions. We did see flashes from him as a rookie at the 3-Tech though. I still wonder if he would not be better served, as well as the team by his possible production at the position, by a move to DE? Take a look at his Combine and Pro Day results. You know who Ed Oliver's numbers comp to, almost identical, and he weighs about 10lbs more than this person? Myles Garrett. Not saying he is just like Myles Garrett or would immediately put up Myles Garrett numbers at the position, but I think Ed could be a beast playing DE. Hughes isn't getting any younger. Murphy is gone. We're not sure what will happen with Addison. What will Epenesa end up being after a full offseason in the strength and conditioning program? To me this just makes sense. Reggie White was a 290lb defensive end and one of the most fearsome to ever play the game. I think they should give him a look there and see what happens. Visually: Oliver looks short and plump; myles looks long and lean. Im sure Myles arms are probably half a foot longer, which comes in useful against tackles.
Thurman#1 Posted February 5, 2021 Posted February 5, 2021 If ... and it's a big if ... but if the answer at DE is on the team ... ... his name is Darryl Johnson. Ed Oliver is the answer at 3-tech, where he already is. 1 2
SoCal Deek Posted February 5, 2021 Posted February 5, 2021 While I don’t agree the Oliver is DE in disguise I actually think this is an interesting thread...but for a different reason. I’ve often thought that the Bills defense seems like a lot of misfit toys. (At least that was true in 2020.) They don’t have a big fat guy in the middle. They don’t have a long armed power guy on the edge. They don’t have a thumper at MLB. And while a good pair, their two safeties are smallish identical twins with neither able to bring the big hit. Still...their bend but don’t break scheme seemed to work well enough throughout the season. It makes me wonder how good they’d be if they actually had the tools I outlined above.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted February 5, 2021 Posted February 5, 2021 20 hours ago, H2o said: I know this has been discussed before, but I'm going to re-hash it again. Ed is on the light side for a DT playing between 280-290lbs. Yes, I know, so is Aaron Donald. On the interior of the defense Ed gets a ton of double teams and this year they had him playing out of position at the 1-Tech on many occasions. We did see flashes from him as a rookie at the 3-Tech though. I still wonder if he would not be better served, as well as the team by his possible production at the position, by a move to DE? Take a look at his Combine and Pro Day results. You know who Ed Oliver's numbers comp to, almost identical, and he weighs about 10lbs more than this person? Myles Garrett. Not saying he is just like Myles Garrett or would immediately put up Myles Garrett numbers at the position, but I think Ed could be a beast playing DE. Hughes isn't getting any younger. Murphy is gone. We're not sure what will happen with Addison. What will Epenesa end up being after a full offseason in the strength and conditioning program? To me this just makes sense. Reggie White was a 290lb defensive end and one of the most fearsome to ever play the game. I think they should give him a look there and see what happens. Major props to you for this analysis and out-of-the-box thinking!
H2o Posted February 5, 2021 Author Posted February 5, 2021 2 hours ago, bobobonators said: Visually: Oliver looks short and plump; myles looks long and lean. Im sure Myles arms are probably half a foot longer, which comes in useful against tackles. When I said "numbers" what I am talking about is the athletic testing. It's quite obvious Oliver is shorter by a couple inches, as well as his wingspan being less. But Oliver ran a 4.73 forty at 281lbs (.09 slower than Garrett while 10lbs heavier), had a 1.63 10 yard split (same as Garrett), and all of the other physical testing was pretty much equal. 32 reps to 33. Those are the numbers I was talking about, not physical measurements. Oliver plays with power and uses his leverage fairly well on the interior. I think he might benefit from being in space, one on one vs an OT. I hope they give him a look there just to see at least.
TheyCallMeAndy Posted February 5, 2021 Posted February 5, 2021 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: My take is Basham is not entirely dissimilar to AJ Epenesa when we took him last year. He can play the run and set the edge and has some skills as a power rusher but he isn't the fast twitch, bendy guy who is gonna beat good NFL tackles off the edge. I think he will go early-mid 2nd round, but this is not a great edge class IMO so teams will be all over the map on them and he could get pushed up I suppose. It is lack of length and bend. He’s the same height as Jerry Hughes
GunnerBill Posted February 5, 2021 Posted February 5, 2021 13 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said: He’s the same height as Jerry Hughes Shorter arms and less bend. And Jerry is smaller than typical for a pass rushing DE and averages 5 sacks a year for his career (6.5 sacks a year as a Bill). Ed had 5 sacks last year as a rookie at 3 tech. That is where he should play.
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