Stopping Travis Kelce

[Putin]

We should be thinking about how we are going to score 35 points , we are not holding KC to under 25 points , maybe we should be looking to add a great TE to give Allen another REAL weapon there’s at least 3 in this draft 

[BillsShredder83]

59 minutes ago, FireChans said:

So this is a topic that has popped up in a few threads. Obviously Kelce dominated the NFL this season and has been the #1 TE in football for years now.

 

The question is, how do you stop this guy? And how do you stop him and not get burned?

 

I remember a game, I think 2013. Pats versus the Saints. Jimmy Graham, a star TE and arguably one of the best at his peak, he finished with 1200 yards and 16 TDs. BB had Aqib Talib on the roster (pre-Revis). The strategy was to have Talib press coverage on Jimmy G all game. Never let him off the line clean. He finished the game without a catch.

 

Now, the question is, this runs a little anti-McD’s zone defense scheme. Obviously you can run some mix zone-man coverages but man coverage on a TE isn’t something I think we have seen much of. And there is the fact that Jimmy had a rep of being “soft” that I don’t think Kelce does, but Kelce also isn’t a Kittle or Gronk who runs through guys with force.

 

Could the answer to stopping Kelce be a big body strong DB mauling him at the LOS? Is that the kind of player we should be targeting this offseason? Would a strategy like this open us up to getting burned by Hill? You could still bracket coverage on the outside with a high safety.

 

Would love to hear everyone’s thoughts on this, because I think Hill is easier to stop. Or rather, the way to stop or slow him down is more obvious. But the key to beating KC is to slow down Kelce without letting Hill burn you.

Honestly that big hybrid guy you're talking about was Jeremy Chinn and (2m drive from me) Kyle Dugger in the draft this past year... and our name was mixed up with both of them.

Problem is we aren't ahead of the curve on this. It's basically a brand new position, and everyone in the league is going to be trying to find their hybrid guy over the next few years.

This "new position" is not going to go away... and until college ranks start regularly implementing and churning them out, it's going to be few and far between, and you're gunna see reaches for them. 

Someone hop in a time machine and bring George Wilson back 😆😆

[BillsShredder83]

8 minutes ago, Putin said:

We should be thinking about how we are going to score 35 points , we are not holding KC to under 25 points , maybe we should be looking to add a great TE to give Allen another REAL weapon there’s at least 3 in this draft 

Agreed. The game has shifted, it's no longer balanced between offense and defense. I wouldn't complain about adding to the defense, but I think offensive weapons are worth more than am equally skilled player on defense. If you wanna beat the Chiefs you gotta outscore them, because the rules are seriously stacked against a defense.

[Don Otreply]

Remember how Nancy Kerrigan was taken out... 

just sayin,

[SoCal Deek]

Kelce isn’t the match up problem that Gronk is. He doesn’t have the size. The problem is that Mahomes is way more mobile than Brady so the two just move around until Kelce gets an open angle. In the championship game Edmunds kept making the mistake of peeking in the backfield to see if Mahomes was going to run, which he wasn’t, but by then it was too late and Kelce just took a step or two into a wide open slot behind Edmunds while he wasn’t looking. So it ended up resembling a basketball game where the point guard keeps moving until he gets the clean angle to toss it down into the paint. 

[whatdrought]

There are some big CB’s in the draft this year and I’d like to get one just to see if that’s something that could be used to slow down TE’s. 

[Billl]

24 minutes ago, Putin said:

We should be thinking about how we are going to score 35 points , we are not holding KC to under 25 points , maybe we should be looking to add a great TE to give Allen another REAL weapon there’s at least 3 in this draft 

This is the answer, but TE is a weird position.  If you look at the dominant ones, they weren’t high draft picks.  Waller, Gronk, Kelce, and Kittle were almost all mid to late round picks.  Gronk was mid second round, while the rest were almost afterthoughts.

10 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Kelce isn’t the match up problem that Gronk is. He doesn’t have the size. The problem is that Mahomes is way more mobile than Brady so the two just move around until Kelce gets an open angle. In the championship game Edmunds kept making the mistake of peeking in the backfield to see if Mahomes was going to run, which he wasn’t, but by then it was too late and Kelce just took a step or two into a wide open slot behind Edmunds while he wasn’t looking. So it ended up resembling a basketball game where the point guard keeps moving until he gets the clean angle to toss it down into the paint. 

Kelce is 6’5 260.

[K-9]

14 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Kelce isn’t the match up problem that Gronk is. He doesn’t have the size. The problem is that Mahomes is way more mobile than Brady so the two just move around until Kelce gets an open angle. In the championship game Edmunds kept making the mistake of peeking in the backfield to see if Mahomes was going to run, which he wasn’t, but by then it was too late and Kelce just took a step or two into a wide open slot behind Edmunds while he wasn’t looking. So it ended up resembling a basketball game where the point guard keeps moving until he gets the clean angle to toss it down into the paint. 

While maybe not the sheer physical force of Gronk, Kelce is infinitely more intelligent on the field. I realize that’s not saying much relative to Gronk’s mental aptitude for the game, but Kelce has a refined understating that most players don’t possess. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Man to man coverage with a DB.  The old argument was DBs were too small to cover TE's.  That is non-sense.  Modern TE's like Kelce and Gronk are the biggest players on the field. LB's don't have the size or the speed to cover them.  At least a DB can keep up with them.  

Revis said the only way to stop Gronk was to cover him with a DB.  

 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

So this is a topic that has popped up in a few threads. Obviously Kelce dominated the NFL this season and has been the #1 TE in football for years now.

 

The question is, how do you stop this guy? And how do you stop him and not get burned?

 

I remember a game, I think 2013. Pats versus the Saints. Jimmy Graham, a star TE and arguably one of the best at his peak, he finished with 1200 yards and 16 TDs. BB had Aqib Talib on the roster (pre-Revis). The strategy was to have Talib press coverage on Jimmy G all game. Never let him off the line clean. He finished the game without a catch.

 

Now, the question is, this runs a little anti-McD’s zone defense scheme. Obviously you can run some mix zone-man coverages but man coverage on a TE isn’t something I think we have seen much of. And there is the fact that Jimmy had a rep of being “soft” that I don’t think Kelce does, but Kelce also isn’t a Kittle or Gronk who runs through guys with force.

 

Could the answer to stopping Kelce be a big body strong DB mauling him at the LOS? Is that the kind of player we should be targeting this offseason? Would a strategy like this open us up to getting burned by Hill? You could still bracket coverage on the outside with a high safety.

 

Would love to hear everyone’s thoughts on this, because I think Hill is easier to stop. Or rather, the way to stop or slow him down is more obvious. But the key to beating KC is to slow down Kelce without letting Hill burn you.

Good thread!
 

1) you are not going to stop him. He had zero bad games this year. Arguably, Denver held him to 3 catches for 30 Yards, but that was because the KC defense and ST scored so much that their offense didn’t really play much. The next best defensive effort was by our Bills during week 6.  But that was still a solid game— 5 catches 65 yards. 
 

2) from everything I read, your best bet to “slow” him down is the get fast pressure on Mahomes combined with using a big DE to jam Kelce at the line. This slows Kelce and throws off the timing of Mahomes’ progressions, such that he quickly looks away from Kelce. In the film studies I watched, everyone said New Orleans did this the best. Yet, I see that Kelce still caught 8/68/1 TD.

[ALF]

Edmunds matches Kelce in size and speed , just go man with him and press at LOS .  then double team Hill . 

[3rdand12]

33 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Good thread!
 

1) you are not going to stop him. He had zero bad games this year. Arguably, Denver held him to 3 catches for 30 Yards, but that was because the KC defense and ST scored so much that their offense didn’t really play much. The next best defensive effort was by our Bills during week 6.  But that was still a solid game— 5 catches 65 yards. 
 

2) from everything I read, your best bet to “slow” him down is the get fast pressure on Mahomes combined with using a big DE to jam Kelce at the line. This slows Kelce and throws off the timing of Mahomes’ progressions, such that he quickly looks away from Kelce. In the film studies I watched, everyone said New Orleans did this the best. Yet, I see that Kelce still caught 8/68/1 TD.

Its always comes back to the pass rush. and rushing with four has to become effective against the better teams.
 Chiefs taught Bills how to play Chiefs. Press and pass rush

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, jkeerie said:

One of the things I hate about our D is that we always allow receivers a clean release off the LOS.  You are allowed contact within 5 yards for a reason.  You especially need to this if you don't have a great pass rush.

As long as we run that ridiculous soft zone, guys like Kelce and Hill will have a free release every time. You telling me our tallest and fastest LB couldn't of played him man all day. Oh wait my bad. We need Edmunds to just backpedal into a giant void of nothingness.

9 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Its always comes back to the pass rush. and rushing with four has to become effective against the better teams.
 Chiefs taught Bills how to play Chiefs. Press and pass rush

Exactly. Play man press and blitz often but disguise them. We did neither. 

[noacls]

Put Mahomes on his back. Or find a freak like Kelce. Anyone have opinions on the kid from North Dame, Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah? 

 

[ganesh]

I think they tried that by putting White on Kelce. It didn't matter.

[The Firebaugh Kid]

It sure seems like a better philosophy than letting him run a train on your defense while you're sitting in a zone all day. 

[97bills]

2 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

Keep him off of the field.  
 

control the TOP. 

I’m 43 so I love old school football but that’s not working against KC to explosive and the NFL has changed hell the colts scored 15 points on us less then 4 minutes. Don’t get me wrong it’s great to run the ball but you better score 7 when you get in the red zone because if not your only limited your self possessions to score 7  

[HappyDays]

I think in general to beat the Chiefs, McDermott needs to reverse his whole philosophy. He gives up easy yards to prevent big plays because most offenses will eventually make a mistake. Against the Chiefs do the opposite. Don't give them easy yards. Mug their receivers at the line and bring the safety up to bracket Kelce. Yeah they'll hit a couple big plays on the back end. Oh well. That just means Allen and Diggs are back on the field. The alternative is let them slow bleed you all the way to the endzone. We've tried that method twice and failed. Might as well try it the other way.

[Billl]

10 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

I think in general to beat the Chiefs, McDermott needs to reverse his whole philosophy. He gives up easy yards to prevent big plays because most offenses will eventually make a mistake. Against the Chiefs do the opposite. Don't give them easy yards. Mug their receivers at the line and bring the safety up to bracket Kelce. Yeah they'll hit a couple big plays on the back end. Oh well. That just means Allen and Diggs are back on the field. The alternative is let them slow bleed you all the way to the endzone. We've tried that method twice and failed. Might as well try it the other way.

That’s what the entire league tried in 2018.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

31 minutes ago, 97bills said:

I’m 43 so I love old school football but that’s not working against KC to explosive and the NFL has changed hell the colts scored 15 points on us less then 4 minutes. Don’t get me wrong it’s great to run the ball but you better score 7 when you get in the red zone because if not your only limited your self possessions to score 7  

And what just happened?

 

no run game led to FG’s and limited TD’s. 
 

they didn’t have to defend the run so they covered all the receivers.  

That ability was lacking for the Bills O not for KC.  

 

Give Buffalo TK and a reliable run game used or not and see how much changes.