Backup QB... The most under-the-radar, enticing offseason storyline.

[whatdrought]

This is mostly from the brain of a guy who is turning his attention to the offseason and is already inundated with trying to figure out which 5th round pick is going to put us over the top as SB contenders (It's South Carolina CB Israel Makuamu, BTW)... that being said, I can't get the idea of our position battle at backup QB off my brain. 

 

First off, I don't expect we'll add any serious competition to this group. It's a well stocked room with guys who they like, and outside of a camp arm, I just don't see it. 

 

That being said, we have three in house options that are each unique and present a really interesting framework for the competition... 

 

1. Matt Barkley.  Obviously he's the favorite to win the job, as it's his job now. I think they like his vet experience and they enjoy that he brings age and maturity to the room. Furthermore, I think he has become a part of the leadership nucleus that gives him an edge over the other guys. These tweets more less started my brain thinking through these situations: 

 

 

 

(this is a response to Matt responding to Thad's tweet)

 

As you can see, Brit seems to be a leaders among the WAG's. While I'm sure this isn't the kind of thing that keeps a guy his job if he's clearly inferior, with the way this admin values organizational culture and structure, I would imagine they are aware of what Matt and Brit mean to the team as a whole and that is a positive in his favor.

 

On the field Barkley has been up and down. The Dolphins game showed he can still make plays, but it's not quite enough to eliminate some of the questions we've seen (Patriots game last year, Chargers this year) when he's gone in to fill in. The Dolphins game was good, but the whole team whipped them - hard not to wonder how much value that really has as far as assessment goes. 

 

2. Jake Fromm. Fromm has an advantage because he's got draft capital invested in him. A 5th round pick isn't the end of the world, and if he never plays for us/isn't successful it won't be seen as some huge error made by the team. That being said, teams are generally (and our team specifically) slow to be rid of guys they drafted. As far as Fromm goes, we don't know anything about him. As far as I know we haven't even seen any real practice reps from him. I think his time as the sequestered QB was both a benefit and a negative for him - benefit as it gave him a chance to see the game plans and prepare like a starter would (as opposed to running the scout team or something along those lines), but a negative because he probably just didn't get all that many reps throughout the season. Fromm is a question mark and I'm excited to see what he looks like if we get real practice/preseason this year. Athletically speaking, he's seemingly quite limited. I was always uncertain about picking him as I don't love the idea of having a backup QB who is so different than your starter - it seems like that's a sure way to cause the offense to have to change were you to go to the backup. The same issue is present with Barkley, so clearly the staff disagrees with me on that. 

 

3. Davis Webb. Webb is the darkhorse in this. We know very little about him. We know that he was a relatively high draft pick (something like 65th pick?) but that two teams gave up on him (granted, those two teams each had young first round QB's at the time). We know that there were reports that he was essentially running the unofficial mini-camp practices this offseason and was a huge factor in helping new guys grasp the offense (I didn't find the sourcing on this, so if anyone has it, feel free to add it). We know that the team rewarded him for his hard work on the PS by calling him up for the last game of the year. And we know that physically he is as close to Josh of the three (see below article). Webb is an interesting part of this discussion because he has never thrown an NFL pass. Presumably he played in pre-season, but I don't know how that went at all? This article I found made me super interested in Webb, both as a backup QB option, and as a potential future coach some day. He seems to have a real sharp football head. Also, reading the article, all of the knocks that are given about Webb pre-draft (footwork causing accuracy issues, having all the arm but sometimes lacking touch, etc) sounded very familiar to me...

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/how-davis-webb-has-become-the-most-intriguing-qb-prospect-in-the-nfl-draft/

 

 

All that to say, I am really intrigued by this situation. Each of these guys has a valid argument for their added value, but I think we'll see something akin to an open competition for QB #2 this year. 

 

Two thoughts in close: 

 

1- I personally don't care all that much about the backup QB in the context of who could replace Josh. I don't believe any of these guys could do so at any level that doesn't completely change who we are as a team. Last years team could have seen a backup QB playing well have some success. The team we saw in 2020 was completely dependent on Josh. If he isn't an MVP caliber player, we aren't half of what we were. That being said, I hope we get back to being a team that can help josh/be able to survive if we needed to with a backup- but that's just not the NFL we live in. For every Nick Foles cinderella story there's 30 examples of teams seasons ending cause their QB gets hurt and the backup isn't up to snuff. If they were good starters, they wouldn't be backups. As the great Tom Moore (longtime Colts OC) used to say when asked why backups didn't get more reps in practice: "If 18 goes down, we're f***** and we don't practice f*****." I think our goals in finding backup QB's should be: - Can they get us out of a game/play well enough to give us a shot in one or two games if absolutely necessary. - Can they help the team/Josh prepare and win football games. - Is there a potential to get a truly good QB who might have trade value. I think each of the three above gives us some combination of these three things which makes this conversation interesting. 

 

2- This thread is clearly just a fun thought exercise and is not meant to present a conclusion. I honestly have no idea who will be the best option/who will win the backup QB job. Feel free to give your thoughts. I personally like heading into an offseason where we have the luxury of talking about our backup QB because so many important parts of our team are set in stone. 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by whatdrought

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I’m good with Barkley. He has played well in about half of the situations he has been called upon. I guess that’s what you expect from a backup. I will throw in an unlikely but not impossible outside thought here. If Tyrod Taylor ever got free again, I’d be interested in seeing him back. IMO he is the perfect backup. I also feel some debt towards him as the QB that finally broke the drought. Obviously he had history with McDermott. Tyrod can run very well. He could run the same offense as Josh Incase of emergency. And should it (god forbid) be an extended period within a season...you can win with him. I know it’s unlikely but it’s an option I would explore. Should the situation present itself.

[Doc]

Develop Fromm.  Webb can be in the mix.  And keep Barkley on speed dial.

[Frat-Train]

(Ryan Fitzpatrick has entered the chat...)

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

10 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

This is mostly from the brain of a guy who is turning his attention to the offseason and is already inundated with trying to figure out which 5th round pick is going to put us over the top as SB contenders (It's South Carolina CB Israel Makuamu, BTW)... that being said, I can't get the idea of our position battle at backup QB off my brain. 

 

First off, I don't expect we'll add any serious competition to this group. It's a well stocked room with guys who they like, and outside of a camp arm, I just don't see it. 

 

That being said, we have three in house options that are each unique and present a really interesting framework for the competition... 

 

1. Matt Barkley.  Obviously he's the favorite to win the job, as it's his job now. I think they like his vet experience and they enjoy that he brings age and maturity to the room. Furthermore, I think he has become a part of the leadership nucleus that gives him an edge over the other guys. These tweets more less started my brain thinking through these situations: 

 

 

 

(this is a response to Matt responding to Thad's tweet)

 

As you can see, Brit seems to be a leaders among the WAG's. While I'm sure this isn't the kind of thing that keeps a guy his job if he's clearly inferior, with the way this admin values organizational culture and structure, I would imagine they are aware of what Matt and Brit mean to the team as a whole and that is a positive in his favor.

 

On the field Barkley has been up and down. The Dolphins game showed he can still make plays, but it's not quite enough to eliminate some of the questions we've seen (Patriots game last year, Chargers this year) when he's gone in to fill in. The Dolphins game was good, but the whole team whipped them - hard not to wonder how much value that really has as far as assessment goes. 

 

2. Jake Fromm. Fromm has an advantage because he's got draft capital invested in him. A 5th round pick isn't the end of the world, and if he never plays for us/isn't successful it won't be seen as some huge error made by the team. That being said, teams are generally (and our team specifically) slow to be rid of guys they drafted. As far as Fromm goes, we don't know anything about him. As far as I know we haven't even seen any real practice reps from him. I think his time as the sequestered QB was both a benefit and a negative for him - benefit as it gave him a chance to see the game plans and prepare like a starter would (as opposed to running the scout team or something along those lines), but a negative because he probably just didn't get all that many reps throughout the season. Fromm is a question mark and I'm excited to see what he looks like if we get real practice/preseason this year. Athletically speaking, he's seemingly quite limited. I was always uncertain about picking him as I don't love the idea of having a backup QB who is so different than your starter - it seems like that's a sure way to cause the offense to have to change were you to go to the backup. The same issue is present with Barkley, so clearly the staff disagrees with me on that. 

 

3. Davis Webb. Webb is the darkhorse in this. We know very little about him. We know that he was a relatively high draft pick (something like 65th pick?) but that two teams gave up on him (granted, those two teams each had young first round QB's at the time). We know that there were reports that he was essentially running the unofficial mini-camp practices this offseason and was a huge factor in helping new guys grasp the offense (I didn't find the sourcing on this, so if anyone has it, feel free to add it). We know that the team rewarded him for his hard work on the PS by calling him up for the last game of the year. And we know that physically he is as close to Josh of the three (see below article). Webb is an interesting part of this discussion because he has never thrown an NFL pass. Presumably he played in pre-season, but I don't know how that went at all? This article I found made me super interested in Webb, both as a backup QB option, and as a potential future coach some day. He seems to have a real sharp football head. Also, reading the article, all of the knocks that are given about Webb pre-draft (footwork causing accuracy issues, having all the arm but sometimes lacking touch, etc) sounded very familiar to me...

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/how-davis-webb-has-become-the-most-intriguing-qb-prospect-in-the-nfl-draft/

 

 

All that to say, I am really intrigued by this situation. Each of these guys has a valid argument for their added value, but I think we'll see something akin to an open competition for QB #2 this year. 

 

Two thoughts in close: 

 

1- I personally don't care all that much about the backup QB in the context of who could replace Josh. I don't believe any of these guys could do so at any level that doesn't completely change who we are as a team. Last years team could have seen a backup QB playing well have some success. The team we saw in 2020 was completely dependent on Josh. If he isn't an MVP caliber player, we aren't half of what we were. That being said, I hope we get back to being a team that can help josh/be able to survive if we needed to with a backup- but that's just not the NFL we live in. For every Nick Foles cinderella story there's 30 examples of teams seasons ending cause their QB gets hurt and the backup isn't up to snuff. If they were good starters, they wouldn't be backups. As the great Tom Moore (longtime Colts OC) used to say when asked why backups didn't get more reps in practice: "If 18 goes down, we're f***** and we don't practice f*****." I think our goals in finding backup QB's should be: - Can they get us out of a game/play well enough to give us a shot in one or two games if absolutely necessary. - Can they help the team/Josh prepare and win football games. - Is there a potential to get a truly good QB who might have trade value. I think each of the three above gives us some combination of these three things which makes this conversation interesting. 

 

2- This thread is clearly just a fun thought exercise and is not meant to present a conclusion. I honestly have no idea who will be the best option/who will win the backup QB job. Feel free to give your thoughts. I personally like heading into an offseason where we have the luxury of talking about our backup QB because so many important parts of our team are set in stone. 

 

 

pretty fascinating thread. Had No idea about Beane’s Comments re Barkley’s wife.

 

there were probably multiple reasons why the Bills did so well with covid this year, and I am sure family buy-in was one of them. Can’t underestimate the influence of building and extending the team culture to players’ family members. 

[dave mcbride]

As someone who watched Davis Webb a little at Cal, he is definitely the most talented of the three. I also think that the really stupid tweets from Fromm last year that came out after the draft *might* (emphasis on might) have soured the team a little. Maybe not. I guess I’d bet on Webb — who Daboll REALLY talked up late in the season — as #2 and Barkley as a 3. They can PS Fromm, right?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Interesting post.

 

Please to note that Matt Barkley is an UDFA.  After the 2018 season, he signed a 2 year, $4M contract. 

 

So in terms of him being the favorite because "it's his job now", not so fast....he has to decide what kind of money he thinks he wants and whether he has interest from anyone besides the Bills, then the Bills have to consider how much they are willing to give him.  I don't know the answer to either of those questions, but he doesn't quite seem like a "sho-in" to me.  I could see him being a cap casualty, so to speak, especially if he gets another offer.

 

I feel that Jake Fromm "took one for the team" in a big way this season, and as a reward he deserves a fair chance to win or lose the backup job.

 

When we hear about Davis Webb, we always hear about how great he was organizing and running the off season workouts, calling the receivers in the off-season and making sure they were all up in the playbook (he can do that because he's a player, not a coach), playing multiple roles on the Scout team (Scout team Safety!!!).   We don't hear about how he's slinging it as a QB.

 

McDermott did make a point of emphasis that Webb is a "developmental QB" in the league.  Accuracy seemed to be the knock on him, but we've seen that can be improved. 

 

Webb was drafted 87th overall in 2017.  Each time he lost his roster spot (Giants after 2017,  Jets after 2018), it was accompanied by a HC/OC change.  Those guys usually want to bring in their own developmental talent.  In 2018, the Giants drafted Kyle Lauletta and kicked Webb to the curb.  In 2019, Gase brought in David Fales, who I believe played under Gase in Chicago and in Miami.  So it probably had less to do with Webb's objective talent and potential vs. these guys, and more to do with the new regime wanting "their guy" in there.

 

I had kind of thought Webb would be in line to be a coaching assistant, but it's an advantage for the Bills to keep him as a player if we're going to have another covid-curtailed off-season. 

 

 

 

 

[Doc]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

As someone who watched Davis Webb a little at Cal, he is definitely the most talented of the three. I also think that the really stupid tweets from Fromm last year that came out after the draft *might* (emphasis on might) have soured the team a little. Maybe not. I guess I’d bet on Webb — who Daboll REALLY talked up late in the season — as #2 and Barkley as a 3. They can PS Fromm, right?

 

They could PS Fromm.  But considering they didn't this past season, it seems they like what they've seen of him so it's highly unlikely.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

31 minutes ago, Frat-Train said:

(Ryan Fitzpatrick has entered the chat...)

 

Ryan Fitzpatrick is a legit NFL QB now and will probably get offered more $$ than we are prepared to pay by a team with a less entrenched starter and playoff hopes.

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Ryan Fitzpatrick is a legit NFL QB now and will probably get offered more $$ than we are prepared to pay by a team with a less entrenched starter and playoff hopes.

Watch the Pats on this front. Just saying.

[The Jokeman]

I like Barkley and Fromm. That said have no issues adding another veteran to the mix to compete. As Webb to me is just a guy.

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Watch the Pats on this front. Just saying.

 

If they're looking to not make the playoffs...

[Beast]

I'd like to see Barkley back on a 2 year deal. 

[whatdrought]

16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Interesting post.

 

Please to note that Matt Barkley is an UDFA.  After the 2018 season, he signed a 2 year, $4M contract. 

 

So in terms of him being the favorite because "it's his job now", not so fast....he has to decide what kind of money he thinks he wants and whether he has interest from anyone besides the Bills, then the Bills have to consider how much they are willing to give him.  I don't know the answer to either of those questions, but he doesn't quite seem like a "sho-in" to me.  I could see him being a cap casualty, so to speak, especially if he gets another offer.

 

I feel that Jake Fromm "took one for the team" in a big way this season, and as a reward he deserves a fair chance to win or lose the backup job.

 

When we hear about Davis Webb, we always hear about how great he was organizing and running the off season workouts, calling the receivers in the off-season and making sure they were all up in the playbook (he can do that because he's a player, not a coach), playing multiple roles on the Scout team (Scout team Safety!!!).   We don't hear about how he's slinging it as a QB.

 

McDermott did make a point of emphasis that Webb is a "developmental QB" in the league.  Accuracy seemed to be the knock on him, but we've seen that can be improved. 

 

Webb was drafted 87th overall in 2017.  Each time he lost his roster spot (Giants after 2017,  Jets after 2018), it was accompanied by a HC/OC change.  Those guys usually want to bring in their own developmental talent.  In 2018, the Giants drafted Kyle Lauletta and kicked Webb to the curb.  In 2019, Gase brought in David Fales, who I believe played under Gase in Chicago and in Miami.  So it probably had less to do with Webb's objective talent and potential vs. these guys, and more to do with the new regime wanting "their guy" in there.

 

I had kind of thought Webb would be in line to be a coaching assistant, but it's an advantage for the Bills to keep him as a player if we're going to have another covid-curtailed off-season. 

 

 

 

 

 

Forgot that Barkley is UFA. That is definitely a wrinkle. I guess that’ll be our first indication of what they think of the young kids. 
 

As for Webb, I too have wondered if they’re grooming him for a coaching role... maybe a Dorsey replacement if he gets keyed for an OC gig in the next couple years? Not sure how it works for players to go directly from a roster to a coaching staff, but the talk around him definitely makes you wonder. His pedigree (based on that article I posted) screams coach. 
 

13 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Watch the Pats on this front. Just saying.

Completing his AFC East circuit. 
 

 

Also, color me stupid, but I’d be lying if I said there wasn’t .01% of me intrigued by Cam as a backup QB / RZ weapon. 😂

Edited January 31, 2021 by whatdrought

[SoCal Deek]

These sorts of discussions are incomplete without a list of the available alternatives. To my way of thinking the Bills are pretty much right where they need to be at QB...and it really wouldn’t hurt if they could get Barkley some more game time snaps during the regular season in a mop up roll. It’d keep him sharp and more ready should Allen go down.

[Frat-Train]

19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Ryan Fitzpatrick is a legit NFL QB now and will probably get offered more $$ than we are prepared to pay by a team with a less entrenched starter and playoff hopes.

Oh no question!  But we can’t underestimate his love for Buffalo and want to win.  This late in his career, who knows...  Maybe he takes what we gave Matt last year.  Doubtful, but hope spring eternal!!!  

19 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Watch the Pats on this front. Just saying.

The more likely scenario, I agree.  Would be an upgrade over Cam, which I never thought I’d say.

[Steptide]

1 hour ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I’m good with Barkley. He has played well in about half of the situations he has been called upon. I guess that’s what you expect from a backup. I will throw in an unlikely but not impossible outside thought here. If Tyrod Taylor ever got free again, I’d be interested in seeing him back. IMO he is the perfect backup. I also feel some debt towards him as the QB that finally broke the drought. Obviously he had history with McDermott. Tyrod can run very well. He could run the same offense as Josh Incase of emergency. And should it (god forbid) be an extended period within a season...you can win with him. I know it’s unlikely but it’s an option I would explore. Should the situation present itself.

If there's one qb I never wanna see in a bills uniform again it's Tyrod. He's ok, but the memories of screaming at my TV to throw the ball are to fresh. I'd take Fitz back over Tyrod. Problem with Fitz is he always starts no matter where he lands 

[Bermuda Triangle]

The Bills are overly reliant on Allen and his skill set, partly because the run game is so poor.  How many times, when it was 3rd or 4th and 1 did you want Allen to hand the ball off to an RB?  Personally, 0 times for me.

 

Given Allen's willingness to stand in the pocket and wait for plays to develop, he's more likely to take hits, and more likely to get injured.  I think most would agree that if Allen is out for an extended period of time, we're done, but it would be nice to have a backup QB who can win a game or two if called upon.   Look at Matt Moore last year in KC.  The guy had been out of football, Mahomes gets hurt in the middle of a game, Moore comes in, Chiefs go on to win that game, and split their next two with Moore starting.  Granted, KC's offensive system and offensive personnel are considerably better than those of the Bills, but still...

[Don Otreply]

In my perfect world a QB like Webb is the ideal back up for Buffalo, the provision is that Webb is Barkley, but with a better arm, which I suspect he already is, and that would make him the better candidate, Fromm who is...??? Is the obvious third choice, jmo.

 

Go Bills!!!

[Gugny]

I say this every year.  There is no team, nor fan base, in the NFL as hung up on the backup QB position as the Buffalo Bills and their fans.

 

I've never understood it, I still don't understand it and I never will.