Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 2, 2021 Posted February 2, 2021 25 minutes ago, CommonCents said: McVay’s offense has not looked great outside of the year that Todd Gurley went off. If anyone watched the Rams that season Gurley played some of the best RB you will ever see. He was an absolute monster. McVay is under pressure and he seems to think Goff is holding him back. It will be fun watching it all play out. I like Woods and Cupp so I’m fine if Stafford plays well, I’d also be fine if McVay runs out of excuses and the heat gets turned on him. I still have my doubts about him as a coach after the SB and his failure to adjust. I think this is a good take. McVay had an "unstoppable offense" that season - until Belicheck looked, snorted, and shut it down schematically. I mean, what's McVay going to do? His genius is unquestioned, it can't be that Belicheck, a Belicheck-tree coach in Flores, and Mike Shanahan's kid Kyle have his number and the rest of the league is watching and spinning their decoder wheel. It must be someone else's fault. Well, maybe he's right, maybe he's wrong, we'll see. For whatever reason, Goff clearly had trouble making the deep throws to the center and R this season. I don't watch them enough to know what's up there.
teef Posted February 2, 2021 Posted February 2, 2021 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: As we saw with Beasley and Davis, it's not so clear cut. Obviously Goff is going to want to play if he can grip the football and throw it at all. Look at Beasley, insisting he can play (and in fact playing well, albeit no way 100%) on a broken fibula. I'm sure the same convo took place with Davis. These guys are imbued with "Warrior Mentality" and it hurts them not to play and they're going to get pissed off at the coach if he sits them, even if the next guy plays well (they could have played better, in their minds) McVay and his staff probably saw it as Wolford > Injured Goff >>> Bortles. Goff probably saw it as Injured Goff >> Anyone else on the team and was pissed, but in a normal state of affairs, he'd be over it. It's not some palace intrigue, it's kind of the way it is when coaches have to balance Uber competitor Alpha males with the effects of injury you're certainly right. i guess the biggest question was how much better they felt wolford was than an injured off. i honestly have zero idea who wolford is as a qb, so it just seemed odd to me. there aren't very many teams that wouldn't force their, "franchise" starter in the game, broken finger or not. i'd guess they'd do that with allen, mahomes, etc as others have mentioned. either the rams thought very highly of wolford, or they didnt' think much of goff at all. after the trade, that seems to make a bit more sense. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 2, 2021 Posted February 2, 2021 12 minutes ago, teef said: you're certainly right. i guess the biggest question was how much better they felt wolford was than an injured off. i honestly have zero idea who wolford is as a qb, so it just seemed odd to me. there aren't very many teams that wouldn't force their, "franchise" starter in the game, broken finger or not. i'd guess they'd do that with allen, mahomes, etc as others have mentioned. either the rams thought very highly of wolford, or they didnt' think much of goff at all. after the trade, that seems to make a bit more sense. I give up, this doesn't seem like a point one can chew over with you productively. You seem to have sunk your Teef into the notion not starting him = Goff diss, and to be determined to Ram that point home regardless of counterpoints. 🤷♂️
teef Posted February 2, 2021 Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I give up, this doesn't seem like a point one can chew over with you productively. You seem to have sunk your Teef into the notion not starting him = Goff diss, and to be determined to Ram that point home regardless of counterpoints. 🤷♂️ weird. ok. guess some of us think our opinions are a bit more important than others... Edited February 2, 2021 by teef
mannc Posted February 3, 2021 Posted February 3, 2021 (edited) 22 hours ago, Doc said: I don't see anyone trading for Wentz. As for Ryan, I don't know why the Falcons would move on without a replacement. Yeah, Wentz has negative trade value. Not sure about the second part; Falcons are in teardown mode, aren’t they? Why not roll with a rookie in 2021? But Ryan definitely has trade value, although hard to say how much. Edited February 3, 2021 by mannc
4merper4mer Posted February 3, 2021 Posted February 3, 2021 36 minutes ago, mannc said: Yeah, Wentz has negative trade value. Not sure about the second part; Falcons are in teardown mode, aren’t they? Why not roll with a rookie in 2021? But Ryan definitely has trade value, although hard to say how much. I doubt the Falcons are in tear down mode because they weren’t horrible and their division is winnable, but if they are I’ll take one order of Calvin Ridley to go.
Big Turk Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) Not sure what they were thinking...they took on a massive contract in Goff and could have probably parlayed either their pick or this one for a boatload of picks that were better than the late round picks they got from the Rams. Edited February 4, 2021 by Big Turk
Richard Noggin Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 Their new GM helped to draft Goff in LA. It is possible that he actually likes Goff as a QB, at least in the short term. So the TWO 1st rounders plus a QB he likes probably made it an easy choice for the Detroit GM. The contract is whatever. They were already paying a QB, so now they're paying a different, younger guy, who they ostensibly like, and they have future firsts to build their roster. You don't have to agree with the assessment of Goff to understand the thinking behind the move. 2 3
transplantbillsfan Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 I would say because Jared Goff has proven he can play at a pretty high level in the NFL. Drew Lock has not. 3
Big Turk Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: I would say because Jared Goff has proven he can play at a pretty high level in the NFL. Drew Lock has not. Jared Goff has only proven that when McVay babysits him to the highest level possible he did pretty OK. When he didn't this year because he expected him to grow out of it, we saw what happened.
Warcodered Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 Goff must just look like a guy that'll eat someone's kneecaps. 2
Big Turk Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 7 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said: Their new GM helped to draft Goff in LA. It is possible that he actually likes Goff as a QB, at least in the short term. So the TWO 1st rounders plus a QB he likes probably made it an easy choice for the Detroit GM. The contract is whatever. They were already paying a QB, so now they're paying a different, younger guy, who they ostensibly like, and they have future firsts to build their roster. You don't have to agree with the assessment of Goff to understand the thinking behind the move. Not really whatever when you eat $20 million in dead cap and pay another $34 on top of that. I kind of guessed that what it was...but I don't know how they could have watched Goff have moderate success only when McVay basically held his hand through everything as much as possible and then see him do pretty average or even worse when McVay stopped doing that this year. His performance when expected to play like a normal QB is average at best. I don't see that changing. 1
DrDawkinstein Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 Goff has his issues and isnt elite, but he is a whole level above and beyond Drew Lock. Plus 2 #1s as well. Easy choice. (And good points up-thread about the new Lions GM being from the Rams and already familiar with Goff) 1
YoloinOhio Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 The lions GM was director of college scouting when the Rams drafted Goff and is very familiar with him. He liked him and must feel he still has potential, and It shows how little he must have thought of Locke. 2
Rc2catch Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Big Turk said: Jared Goff has only proven that when McVay babysits him to the highest level possible he did pretty OK. When he didn't this year because he expected him to grow out of it, we saw what happened. I reserve judgment on Goff until seeing him in a different system. McVay is great, but he might of got in Goffs head a little bit being so protective of him and so controlling of the offense. Maybe a little freedom will do the kid some good. He always seems like he plays scared. And outside of the designed plays looks lost. I’m not sure it’s 100% Goff. Lions made a smart deal imo. The money doesn’t totally matter at the moment. 1
Richard Noggin Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, Big Turk said: Not really whatever when you eat $20 million in dead cap and pay another $34 on top of that. I kind of guessed that what it was...but I don't know how they could have watched Goff have moderate success only when McVay basically held his hand through everything as much as possible and then see him do pretty average or even worse when McVay stopped doing that this year. His performance when expected to play like a normal QB is average at best. I don't see that changing. I don't disagree with the points you're making here. But it still stands that the Lions thinking is pretty clear with respect to trade compensation and a QB the GM might actually like. Both teams get to start over with new QBs whom they apparently want. And the Lions get a lot of draft capital.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 I would Have taken the Rams deal. Get two 1st rounders and a 3 rounder (not just the one 1st rounder), and a much much better QB. 1 1
Rochesterfan Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 23 minutes ago, Big Turk said: Not sure what they were thinking...they took on a massive contract in Goff and could have probably parlayed either their pick or this one for a boatload of picks that were better than the late round picks they got from the Rams. Honestly - The #9 pick in this draft does very little for Detroit and they need to figure out who is staying and who is going. I think they were more enticed by 2 future picks and Goff - than Drew Lock and a single pick this year and I am not sure I disagree. This years draft and process is so messed up - now is the time to clear players, begin the process of establishing your future team and then you begin next year refilling the talent pool with multiple picks.
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