dave mcbride Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 16 minutes ago, HappyDays said: The question is can you win a Super Bowl without your QB playing at a top 5 level? The final 4 teams this year had arguably the 4 best QBs in the league. Stafford has always been on the borderline of top 10 QB but he's never played at that elite level. I question if any team can beat KC in the playoffs without elite QB play. San Fran showed you the ceiling of that style last year. Stafford is better than Garrappolo but I'm not sure it's a big enough difference to matter. Again, consider the franchise.
BUFFALOKIE Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 14 hours ago, Warcodered said: When was the last time the Rams used a 1st round pick? Jared Goff, 2016.
mannc Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, FireChans said: The Lions too considering they asked for more compensation to take Goff. I would argue fans are just as lousy. Unless they tricked the Rams... Fans don’t get paid to be right
HappyDays Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 4 minutes ago, FireChans said: What move is a yes to that question besides trading for Patrick Mahomes instead? If you don't have a top 5 QB and no chance to get one, all you can do is keep building the other depth on your team and wait until you have the opportunity to get one. It's possible Watson and Rodgers will both be available this offseason. The Buccaneers gave up nothing to sign Brady. Or you could do it the old fashioned away and draft QBs until you hit on one. Again I'm not saying it is an easy problem to solve, but pretending Matt Stafford is good enough to play at the level needed to beat Mahomes also isn't solving anything. If the Rams hadn't wasted future 1st round picks on Goff and Ramsey and Cooks maybe they would have been in position to trade up for a QB like Mahomes or Allen or Watson. Maybe next year they could be in that position if they had 1st round picks to trade... I feel like the moves they've made the past few years have left them in the worst kind of NFL purgatory. Not good enough to win a Super Bowl, not bad enough to draft impact players, and worse still they have no cap space and no early draft picks to rebuild the team. The crash is going to happen eventually. If all they have to show for it is one Super Bowl loss was it worth it?
FireChans Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, mannc said: Unless they tricked the Rams... Fans don’t get paid to be right Aka, fans don’t get fired when they are wrong. 2 minutes ago, HappyDays said: If you don't have a top 5 QB and no chance to get one, all you can do is keep building the other depth on your team and wait until you have the opportunity to get one. It's possible Watson and Rodgers will both be available this offseason. The Buccaneers gave up nothing to sign Brady. Or you could do it the old fashioned away and draft QBs until you hit on one. Again I'm not saying it is an easy problem to solve, but pretending Matt Stafford is good enough to play at the level needed to beat Mahomes also isn't solving anything. If the Rams hadn't wasted future 1st round picks on Goff and Ramsey and Cooks maybe they would have been in position to trade up for a QB like Mahomes or Allen or Watson. Maybe next year they could be in that position if they had 1st round picks to trade... I feel like the moves they've made the past few years have left them in the worst kind of NFL purgatory. Not good enough to win a Super Bowl, not bad enough to draft impact players, and worse still they have no cap space and no early draft picks to rebuild the team. The crash is going to happen eventually. If all they have to show for it is one Super Bowl loss was it worth it? Oh so signing Brady to a 7-9 team is the answer to “this helps us beat Mahomes” but trading for an upgrade at QB on a perennial playoff team isn’t? Watson isn’t currently available and I doubt Rodgers is either. Also neither are better than Mahomes. Your standards are silly. A playoff team with stars in their primes should be trying to get better to win. Every team can’t sit around and draft QB’s and depth to make a run in 5 years. The Rams have been a playoff team in the last 3/4 years, they have made it to the Super Bowl and they just got a better QB to pair with the number one defense in the NFL. A Bills fan calling that time “the worst kind of purgatory” would be funny if it wasn’t so outrageously sad. 1
HappyDays Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Again, consider the franchise. I'm not blaming Stafford for all of Detroit's troubles, I just don't know what he has shown to make you think he can be elite. I think the QB gap is now wider than ever and we've reached a point where you simply can't win without an elite QB. The transition was fast. It wasn't so long ago the corpse of Peyton Manning won a Super Bowl on the back of his defense. 2 years later Mahomes became the starting QB for the Chiefs and that style of Super Bowl victory became obsolete. At this point I think you have Ryan Tannehill at the head of the tier of QBs that are not quite good enough to win a Super Bowl. Stafford is in that tier. Then there's a massive gap to the QBs with a fighting chance (Allen, Watson, etc.) and then another gap to Mahomes. If your team doesn't have Mahomes or a QB in the next tier down you don't stand a chance of winning it all. 2 minutes ago, FireChans said: Oh so signing Brady to a 7-9 team is the answer to “this helps us beat Mahomes” Yes. Brady wasn't at his best this year but he is still a top 5 QB and has a chance of keeping up with Mahomes with those weapons around him. Also like Mahomes he tends to elevate his game in the playoffs. 3 minutes ago, FireChans said: trading for an upgrade at QB on a perennial playoff team isn’t? Not if the upgrade isn't large enough to matter. If Stafford ups his game and plays at an elite level this year I'll admit I was wrong. I don't think he's ever shown that capability but if he can do it the Rams will have a shot to win it all. If instead he plays right at the borderline top 10 level that he's always played at then it won't matter. Their ceiling will be losing to KC in the Super Bowl.
dave mcbride Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I'm not blaming Stafford for all of Detroit's troubles, I just don't know what he has shown to make you think he can be elite. I think the QB gap is now wider than ever and we've reached a point where you simply can't win without an elite QB. The transition was fast. It wasn't so long ago the corpse of Peyton Manning won a Super Bowl on the back of his defense. 2 years later Mahomes became the starting QB for the Chiefs and that style of Super Bowl victory became obsolete. At this point I think you have Ryan Tannehill at the head of the tier of QBs that are not quite good enough to win a Super Bowl. Stafford is in that tier. Then there's a massive gap to the QBs with a fighting chance (Allen, Watson, etc.) and then another gap to Mahomes. If your team doesn't have Mahomes or a QB in the next tier down you don't stand a chance of winning it all. I’m basing it on his *extreme* arm talent (Mahomes-esque in his ability to throw from different levels; also a very good baseball player), mobility in the pocket, generally good accuracy, willingness to play through injury, and ability to make plays when things break down. Edited January 31, 2021 by dave mcbride
97bills Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 53 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: He’s more talented and McVay is betting on talent. Betting on talent is the way to go, I think. We will see
SoCal Deek Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 Pump the breaks there people. Mahomes has won exactly ONE championship. I’m not ready to crown him as anything more than just a guy who won a super bowl until after next Sunday night.
Logic Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 4 hours ago, Rochesterfan said: Yes, but you are talking about a QB that has had back injuries and has underperformed for years and does not really fit the McVay style of offense. Please explain how he doesn’t fit McVay’s offense.
FireChans Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 9 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I'm not blaming Stafford for all of Detroit's troubles, I just don't know what he has shown to make you think he can be elite. I think the QB gap is now wider than ever and we've reached a point where you simply can't win without an elite QB. The transition was fast. It wasn't so long ago the corpse of Peyton Manning won a Super Bowl on the back of his defense. 2 years later Mahomes became the starting QB for the Chiefs and that style of Super Bowl victory became obsolete. At this point I think you have Ryan Tannehill at the head of the tier of QBs that are not quite good enough to win a Super Bowl. Stafford is in that tier. Then there's a massive gap to the QBs with a fighting chance (Allen, Watson, etc.) and then another gap to Mahomes. If your team doesn't have Mahomes or a QB in the next tier down you don't stand a chance of winning it all. Yes. Brady wasn't at his best this year but he is still a top 5 QB and has a chance of keeping up with Mahomes with those weapons around him. Also like Mahomes he tends to elevate his game in the playoffs. Not if the upgrade isn't large enough to matter. If Stafford ups his game and plays at an elite level this year I'll admit I was wrong. I don't think he's ever shown that capability but if he can do it the Rams will have a shot to win it all. If instead he plays right at the borderline top 10 level that he's always played at then it won't matter. Their ceiling will be losing to KC in the Super Bowl. Like I said, this is a loser’s argument. Brady wasn’t a top 5 QB last year. TB took a chance and it worked out for them. Their ceiling may ALSO be losing to KC in the Super Bowl. So if the Bucs get lit up in the Super Bowl, do we get to say signing Brady was a waste they should have acquired more depth?
BuffaloRebound Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 24 minutes ago, Nihilarian said: "When it comes to picking a new team, it partially was Stafford’s decision. And his decision was to accept a trade anywhere but New England." https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/01/31/report-matthew-stafford-was-willing-to-go-anywhere-but-new-england/ So awesome! This is a beautiful thing. I am now a Matthew Stafford fan. 1
Nihilarian Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 As for Stafford being on losing teams and not elevating the team around him. Take a long look at the Atlanta Falcons who have a franchise QB who has taken his team to a SB and won many playoff games. A QB is mostly only as good as his surrounding cast of coaches, players. Atlanta with QB Matt Ryan threw for 4581 yards on a 4-12 team. Injured receivers, not so good run game and a poor defense. A sound recipe for the Lions the last decade. It is after all... a team sport. Just saying, Sean McVay has shown to be a pretty smart offensive mind, four winning seasons in his four years as Rams HC and three playoff appearances, one SB. If he doesn't want Goff... 1
JMF2006 Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 4 hours ago, Big Turk said: Goff needs a whole lot around him to go well to look capable. He was basically babied by McVay his whole career once he got there. I think people are going to have a fairly stark realization that McVay propped him up about as much as a coach could because I doubt he looks anything like a top half of the NFL starter in Detroit. Bold move but he thinks he can win with Goff? Making more money? I don't get what they are doing. I did not say they they would win or are better with Goff. He might even be on the move again....the Leos could just flip him to another NFC team for more pics. I heard the Bears were interested in Stafford....that would never happen unless they gave their next 4 1sts
No_Matter_What Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 9 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: Goff reminds me of Flacco with a lesser arm. Detroit is about to be really bad again. People forget how bad Detroit was before Stafford. Well I think that is sort of a point. Be bad, draft high.
whatdrought Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 The trade makes sense for the rams (though pricey) if you’re dropping Stafford on the exact team they had last year... the biggest question around the Rams is what’s to say the Defense won’t regress. they were an okay Defense, got Stanley and became an elite defense... now they’re losing him.... if that defense drops back to okay it’s gonna be a lot harder to argue this much capital was worth a relatively old QB.
HappyDays Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 11 minutes ago, FireChans said: Like I said, this is a loser’s argument. Brady wasn’t a top 5 QB last year. TB took a chance and it worked out for them. Their ceiling may ALSO be losing to KC in the Super Bowl. So if the Bucs get lit up in the Super Bowl, do we get to say signing Brady was a waste they should have acquired more depth? Brady will be a top 5 QB until he is physically incapable of throwing the ball. His last year with the Patriots he was surrounded with awful talent. I'll admit I thought he was done but I underrated how poor that offense was outside of Brady. Stafford has had good talent around him and has never come close to winning a Super Bowl. If he was at that level I believe we would have seen it by now. Watson has played for a dumpster fire franchise and everyone still agrees he is a top 5 QB. The Saints had a few down years where everyone still agreed Brees was elite. You can still make judgments about a player irrespective of the team around him.
RiotAct Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 41 minutes ago, Nihilarian said: "When it comes to picking a new team, it partially was Stafford’s decision. And his decision was to accept a trade anywhere but New England." https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/01/31/report-matthew-stafford-was-willing-to-go-anywhere-but-new-england/ You hate to see it!
JMF2006 Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 1 hour ago, RaoulDuke79 said: You run it when your ahead....you throw it when your behind He is called Pad Statford for a reason 1
Clyde Smith Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 Lions will probably fumble their draft picks with duds and busts anyway lol. 1 1
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