dave mcbride Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: Yes, but you are talking about a QB that has had back injuries and has underperformed for years and does not really fit the McVay style of offense. Stafford is still an elite talent and at this point a poor man’s Josh Allen - which is still good. Stafford has always been able to make plays when the play breaks down because of his ability to move around and his elite arm. That’s what McVay wants - a guy who can rescue a play when it breaks down. That’s not Goff. 1 minute ago, SirAndrew said: I preface this by saying I’m not a big Stafford fan. I’m not convinced that he’s top level elite, or capable of winning titles. I do believe that Stafford is capable of bringing a well coached team with a decent roster to the playoffs. That’s exactly why the Rams traded for him. The Lions game plan is a little more confusing to me. Most people view Goff as a stop gap QB in Detroit who will struggle without McVay in his ear. This means the Lions don’t have a QB. Those two first rounders aren’t to be at the top of the first round, and they still need to find a QB. Stafford might have never taken the Lions far, but I’d prefer to build around him for the last few years of his career, and hope for the best. Get what you can out of Stafford, then go for the tank when he retires to draft a QB. A couple of draft picks in the 20-30 range don’t do much for a team without a QB. The Lions still need to chase their QB of the future. I view Stafford as a serviceable second tier QB, who could have taken the Lions to the playoffs. I don’t think they have that with Goff. If the Rams don’t win a title, I think both teams are losers in this trade. Objectively, Goff is a better-than-average QB. The narrative around him seems a little nuts to me. 26 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: I totally agree and further more - I think Stafford is a terrible fit for that offense. He is not a dink/dunk style passer or a roll out guy. He is a deep drop and pocket thrower and that means big changes to how they move forward. I think Stafford has the better arm, but he has not shown himself to be the better QB or to elevate those around him - even when surrounded by some of the top WRs in the game. Big risk for LA and potentially resets their window to an even smaller window before they fall apart. Yeah, but that’s exactly what McVay wants - someone who is not Goff or Cousins. Say what you will about Stafford, but he has elite talent and like Allen and Mahomes can make plays when things aren’t working. That missing element has killed the Rams for the last couple of seasons. Don’t think McVay doesn’t watch guys like Mahomes, Allen, and (not least) Justin Herbert.
SirAndrew Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Stafford is still an elite talent and at this point a poor man’s Josh Allen - which is still good. Stafford has always been able to make plays when the play breaks down because of his ability to move around and his elite arm. That’s what McVay wants - a guy who can rescue a play when it breaks down. That’s not Goff. Objectively, Goff is a better-than-average QB. The narrative around him seems a little nuts to me. The narrative is the most interesting part of this trade imo. We will all get to find out what’s true when we see Goff in Detroit. Goff just doesn’t pass the eye test for me. McVay did a lot of interesting things with that offense such as the helmet radio communication stuff with Goff. You’re not necessarily wrong, I’m just curious to see what happens with this. QB’s put up big numbers in 2020, numbers that once made a guy elite mean less in the modern NFL. Very average QB’s can put up big numbers these days.
dave mcbride Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 1 minute ago, SirAndrew said: The narrative is the most interesting part of this trade imo. We will all get to find out what’s true when we see Goff in Detroit. Goff just doesn’t pass the eye test for me. McVay did a lot of interesting things with that offense such as the helmet radio communication stuff with Goff. You’re not necessarily wrong, I’m just curious to see what happens with this. QB’s put up big numbers in 2020, numbers that once made a guy elite mean less in the modern NFL. Very average QB’s can put up big numbers these days. Agreed. The thing is that Goff put up huge numbers in 2017 and 2018, and he’s only 26. I don’t buy the McVay genius stuff. Plenty of great offensive minds look bad when the qb is subpar. In fact, I’d say all of them.
Scott7975 Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 10 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Best place for Watson is the Saints imo. Super bowl. How would they fit Watson under the cap and retain those super bowl players?
BuffaloRebound Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 It’s more than a narrative about Goff. He has negative trade value. If he didn’t, the Rams would’ve traded him to one of the other 10 teams actively looking for a QB.
Pitch left Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 Well there's an out in Goff's contract after 2022. So 2021 may be the tank year -- dump who doesn't fit for 2023 and accumulate draft capital. Rams are 35Mil over - it'll be interesting to see how teams like that restructure, etc to get there
4merper4mer Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 Just now, Pitch left said: Well there's an out in Goff's contract after 2022. So 2021 may be the tank year -- dump who doesn't fit for 2023 and accumulate draft capital. Rams are 35Mil over - it'll be interesting to see how teams like that restructure, etc to get there Maybe they will bite Goff’s kneecaps off and go for the injury settlement. 1
BuffaloRebound Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, Pitch left said: Well there's an out in Goff's contract after 2022. So 2021 may be the tank year -- dump who doesn't fit for 2023 and accumulate draft capital. Rams are 35Mil over - it'll be interesting to see how teams like that restructure, etc to get there The tell that Detroit is tanking is that they had to give Campbell a 6 year deal.
billsbackto81 Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 11 hours ago, QCity said: Keep him in the NFC, nice. Let's hope Watson follows him there.
Big Turk Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 36 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Stafford is still an elite talent and at this point a poor man’s Josh Allen - which is still good. Stafford has always been able to make plays when the play breaks down because of his ability to move around and his elite arm. That’s what McVay wants - a guy who can rescue a play when it breaks down. That’s not Goff. Objectively, Goff is a better-than-average QB. The narrative around him seems a little nuts to me. Yeah, but that’s exactly what McVay wants - someone who is not Goff or Cousins. Say what you will about Stafford, but he has elite talent and like Allen and Mahomes can make plays when things aren’t working. That missing element has killed the Rams for the last couple of seasons. Don’t think McVay doesn’t watch guys like Mahomes, Allen, and (not least) Justin Herbert. Goff needs a whole lot around him to go well to look capable. He was basically babied by McVay his whole career once he got there. I think people are going to have a fairly stark realization that McVay propped him up about as much as a coach could because I doubt he looks anything like a top half of the NFL starter in Detroit. 1 hour ago, JMF2006 said: I think the Lions are in full rebuild mode. The cap hit is just a necessary business expense. They obviously felt they had one valuable asset(see Hershel Walker Dallas to Minny) and decided to cash their chips in. My way of looking at it is that they could not win with Stafford so lets get the most we can now. Bold move by the new GM. Bold move but he thinks he can win with Goff? Making more money? I don't get what they are doing. 1
DCOrange Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 It’s interesting that Detroit supposedly turned down a better offer from Washington. I’m surprised this Goff-Stafford swap actually happened, but value wise, I think this was in line with what was expected. Don’t think this changes the price for Watson at all. Decent return for Detroit, but Goff’s contract is pretty bad and those 1sts are years down the road and likely in the late 20s to 30s...not super valuable chips. If a team like New England had offered #15, they probably should have taken that instead but it sounds like they just wanted to get Stafford to his top choice, which was LA.
Big Turk Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 33 minutes ago, SirAndrew said: The narrative is the most interesting part of this trade imo. We will all get to find out what’s true when we see Goff in Detroit. Goff just doesn’t pass the eye test for me. McVay did a lot of interesting things with that offense such as the helmet radio communication stuff with Goff. You’re not necessarily wrong, I’m just curious to see what happens with this. QB’s put up big numbers in 2020, numbers that once made a guy elite mean less in the modern NFL. Very average QB’s can put up big numbers these days. McVay's scheme made Goff look good...Stafford should excel in it. Goff is a middling QB. I think some people are going to be shocked at how poor he looks in Detroit. 1 1
Charles Romes Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 Are Cupp/Woods really elite? My perceptions is that Goff was making receivers out of these guys, especially seeing Woods up close in Buffalo. Woods was a ceiling 2 in Buffalo and that’s being generous. With Goff, Woods has been elevated to a 1a. 1 1
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, DCOrange said: It’s interesting that Detroit supposedly turned down a better offer from Washington. I’m surprised this Goff-Stafford swap actually happened, but value wise, I think this was in line with what was expected. Don’t think this changes the price for Watson at all. Decent return for Detroit, but Goff’s contract is pretty bad and those 1sts are years down the road and likely in the late 20s to 30s...not super valuable chips. If a team like New England had offered #15, they probably should have taken that instead but it sounds like they just wanted to get Stafford to his top choice, which was LA. I'm sure some GM's view Goff as a franchise QB.
Sherlock Holmes Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, Charles Romes said: Are Cupp/Woods really elite? My perceptions is that Goff was making receivers out of these guys, especially seeing Woods up close in Buffalo. Woods was a ceiling 2 in Buffalo and that’s being generous. With Goff, Woods has been elevated to a 1a. Kupp is one of the best #1 receivers and Woods is one of the best #2 WRs
DCOrange Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: I'm sure some GM's view Goff as a franchise QB. Those GMs should probably not be GMs. Goff is precisely the type of QB teams should constantly be trying to replace IMO. A talented passer but he just doesn’t have it between the ears at all. If a play doesn’t play out exactly as expected, he’s screwed. 1
Bobby Hooks Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, Virgil said: If Goff wasn’t included, I would say that’s fair. With Goff included, it seems a bit much They had to unload Goff to get Stafford. Couldn’t afford both. Honestly, I think they gave as much as the did to entice Lions to take Goff. Rams are basically pushing all their chips in and going all out to win now. Lions have a few years, and will probably try to unload Goff though I don’t see anyone taking him. Could be a win win depending on how Lions draft. Edited January 31, 2021 by Bobby Hooks
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 10 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: I think they will play it like the Saints did the past 3 years and push that debt down the road. Their rationale would be having a "#1 defense" right now justifies going for it. You may be right about the cap. But while I could certainly be wrong, I think Stafford is no Drew Brees. On the one hand, I have to admire the Rams for taking that "Good is the Enemy of Great" "Can't change the Results by keeping things the same" attitude. On the other hand, like I said (and I could be wrong) I see Stafford as being a flawed QB, just different flaws than Goff.
SirAndrew Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Big Turk said: McVay's scheme made Goff look good...Stafford should excel in it. Goff is a middling QB. I think some people are going to be shocked at how poor he looks in Detroit. Agree, I look at this from a very simplistic view. If my team signed Goff as their QB, would I be inspired by the signing ? Absolutely not. That tells me all I need to know about my take on Goff as a good QB. Those good years in LA with a healthy Todd Gurley wouldn’t mean a thing to me. Edited January 31, 2021 by SirAndrew
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 23 minutes ago, DCOrange said: It’s interesting that Detroit supposedly turned down a better offer from Washington. I’m surprised this Goff-Stafford swap actually happened, but value wise, I think this was in line with what was expected. Don’t think this changes the price for Watson at all. Decent return for Detroit, but Goff’s contract is pretty bad and those 1sts are years down the road and likely in the late 20s to 30s...not super valuable chips. If a team like New England had offered #15, they probably should have taken that instead but it sounds like they just wanted to get Stafford to his top choice, which was LA. What years are the two firsts they traded? Stafford gets $20M this year and $23 next Which I guess is better than $28M and $26M but only by a #2 WR or so. I wonder if the two QB will swap houses? LA property is typically worth a lot more than Detroit property, but there is that imported Italian Marble Stafford installed. 1
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