LeviF Posted February 22, 2023 Posted February 22, 2023 7 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: they did a bang up job in Iraq and the terrain would be very familiar. I'd wager the stockpile locations of weapons are already known. That and Bill Gates has already altered the DNA of every American...just needs to selectively throw the switch. And we have awesome space lasers. The sheer size and variety of terrain kind of negate any familiarity guys might have with wherever they are locally. As to the rest I did get a chuckle. And I think you give the belligerents too much moral credit. As has been pointed out, you don’t need to fight F16s, or even their pilots. Those pilots have wives, mothers, and children. This is an entirely different generation of warfare that has yet to see a true test. It won’t happen here though. Again I think decentralization and constitutional crisis are much more likely. If there is an aggressor in that scenario, it will be the feds.
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 22, 2023 Posted February 22, 2023 1 minute ago, LeviF said: If there is an aggressor in that scenario, it will be the feds. agree with all but this. gotta laugh sometimes! ok, now I need my munchies...
LeviF Posted February 22, 2023 Posted February 22, 2023 4 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: agree with all but this. gotta laugh sometimes! ok, now I need my munchies... Well who else do you think is going to attempt to enforce federal law when state governments ignore it?
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 22, 2023 Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, LeviF said: Well who else do you think is going to attempt to enforce federal law when state governments ignore it? Oh man. If states ignore federal laws they got it coming. or they could just sucede. don't see that happening for the economic reasons given earlier. Edited February 22, 2023 by redtail hawk
LeviF Posted February 22, 2023 Posted February 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: Oh man. If states ignore federal laws they got it coming. What did you think I meant by decentralization and constitutional crisis lol 1
LeviF Posted February 22, 2023 Posted February 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: but if they don't back down...what a mess! There’s already precedent on a very large scale with “sanctuary” cities and states. Just comes down to the will to power. How badly does the federal government want a certain policy enforced nationwide? 2
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 22, 2023 Posted February 22, 2023 8 minutes ago, LeviF said: There’s already precedent on a very large scale with “sanctuary” cities and states. Just comes down to the will to power. How badly does the federal government want a certain policy enforced nationwide? We (the majority of Americans) want it bad. That I'm confident in. Richest and most powerful country in the world. Who, other than Putin and Xi, wants that to change?
LeviF Posted February 22, 2023 Posted February 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: We (the majority of Americans) want it bad. That I'm confident in. Richest and most powerful country in the world. Who, other than Putin and Xi, wants that to change? Well apparently that’s not true for immigration law. Then the question is what else is that not true for? 1
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 22, 2023 Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, LeviF said: Well apparently that’s not true for immigration law. Then the question is what else is that not true for? look at historic revolutions. the lowest tiers of society even the middle, almost never benefit. the guys with the bandanas in France didn't end up running things. The communist idealists in China and Russia were mostly purged. History is not in your favor if you are serious about this. and most relevant, the confederacy was a failure that is still foundering generations later. much better to try to change things to your way of thinking from the inside. Support good, reasonable candidates. Edited February 22, 2023 by redtail hawk
LeviF Posted February 22, 2023 Posted February 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: look at historic revolutions. the lowest tiers of society even the middle, almost never benefit. the guys with the bandanas in France didn't end up running things. The communist idealists in China and Russia were mostly purged. History is not in your favor if you are serious about this. “I” am not anything, this is all theoretical as 1. I live in NY and 2. I’m not a governor lol But again the federal government has been happy to allow entire states to flaunt immigration law to include ignoring probable cause warrants issued by federal judges. No war, no national guard, not even a “hey wtf” from a US Attorney. The question is if they will tolerate that what else can (or should) they tolerate? 2
Buffarukus Posted February 22, 2023 Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, ChiGoose said: That’s an absolutely ridiculous comparison and you know it. how? one side thinks the fundamental principals on which the country was founded are a good basis for living and the other sees them as wrong and must be changed from the very roots. how in the hell is that sustainable and what would make ANYONE think changing them is going to bring about more individual prosperity and freedom then the one place on the planet that has the most? the left wants to divide the national anthem! smothered in identity politics that no longer sees people on a individual basis. it doesn't get more divisive then saying some are discluded from a national anthem or different. you claim the right does this yet i never saw evidence. the left thinks parents should not have the ability to discern their own children's education and this administration has targeted as terrorists if they demand it. the left has changed definitions and science to push agendas. not extreme at all. the left has emboldened criminal behavior with woke DAs slapping people on the wrist while seeking harsh criminal sentances to those who have defended their lives and not the aggressors. freedom of speech is being erased by the left and ignored/cheered when tactics are used against anyone with differing opinions. covid was prime example twitter was conclusive in this. one side wants war..one that can go nuclear...the other want peace talks. these arent minor things and no justification should be made for any of the above..yet you will and say this will lead to a "better tomorrow". i see it on this board everyday. they are LIBERAL principals!!!! 4 hours ago, redtail hawk said: what exactly should he knock off? Edited February 22, 2023 by Buffarukus 1 1
Gene Frenkle Posted February 22, 2023 Posted February 22, 2023 5 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: The democrats have their own lunatic fringe in the House. Again, most folks just ignore them. Yeah, totally the same. Look at all the Dems banning books and calling for civil war, errr "national divorce". If we get divorced is it okay for Marge to screw that hairy tantric sex guru again? 1
ChiGoose Posted February 22, 2023 Posted February 22, 2023 5 minutes ago, Buffarukus said: how? one side thinks the fundamental principals on which the country was founded are a good basis for living and the other sees them as wrong and must be changed from the very roots. how in the hell is that sustainable and what would make ANYONE think changing them is going to bring about more individual prosperity and freedom then the one place on the planet that has the most? the left wants to divide the national anthem! smothered in identity politics that no longer sees people on a individual basis. it doesn't get more divisive then saying some are discluded from a national anthem or different. you claim the right does this yet i never saw evidence. the left thinks parents should not have the ability to discern their own children's education and this administration has targeted as terrorists if they demand it. the left has changed definitions and science to push agendas. not extreme at all. the left has emboldened criminal behavior with woke DAs slapping people on the wrist while seeking harsh criminal sentances to those who have defended their lives and not the aggressors. freedom of speech is being erased by the left and ignored/cheered when tactics are used against anyone with differing opinions. covid was prime example twitter was conclusive in this. these arent minor things and there is no justification should be made for any of the above..yet you will and say this will lead to a "better tomorrow". i see it on this board everyday. Already explained it, but divorcing an abusive spouse doesn’t result in a war in which people die. Also, I could list a similar litany of ways the GOP has betrayed the values of this country and denigrates the left, but it would be pointless. If you’re unhappy with how things are (as I am), you should be advocating for ways to make them better instead of excusing those who are advocating for us to kill each other. 1
Buffarukus Posted February 22, 2023 Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) 34 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Already explained it, but divorcing an abusive spouse doesn’t result in a war in which people die. Also, I could list a similar litany of ways the GOP has betrayed the values of this country and denigrates the left, but it would be pointless. If you’re unhappy with how things are (as I am), you should be advocating for ways to make them better instead of excusing those who are advocating for us to kill each other. i edited. these are/were liberal beliefs. id love for you to name conservative beliefs. id prob agree with you on some but would much rather you address my points as to why any of them are not in stark contrast to what the fundamental american system should stand for and fight AGAINST without moving of topic or whatabouting. if you can't even explain why they are being pushed/ agreed with then why shouldn't it be fought however necessary. as i said these are fundamental principals under attack. Edited February 22, 2023 by Buffarukus
ChiGoose Posted February 22, 2023 Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) I didn’t want to list them out because I think it misses the point, but I’ll throw some out from the top of my head because you asked. Quote how? one side thinks the fundamental principals on which the country was founded are a good basis for living and the other sees them as wrong and must be changed from the very roots. how in the hell is that sustainable and what would make ANYONE think changing them is going to bring about more individual prosperity and freedom then the one place on the planet that has the most? The Right doesn’t own the founding of this country. The Founders were careful to keep the endorsement of a specific religion out of the Constitution but the right insists that we are a Christian theocracy. The founders grounded the right to bear arms as a way to maintain well regulated militias but the right believes this means everyone has the right to own any kind of gun with few to no restrictions. The right today is mythologizing a past that never existed. Quote the left wants to divide the national anthem! smothered in identity politics that no longer sees people on a individual basis. it doesn't get more divisive then saying some are discluded from a national anthem or different. you claim the right does this yet i never saw evidence. I bet that if you asked, a full 90% of the left wouldn’t really care about the anthem debate. And as for identity politics, you might be missing the “real American” identify driving the right. It’s rural white Christians as the true Americans and everyone else is “the other” How many memes have you seen about this being a conservative country because if you plot the presidential vote by land instead of people, there’s more red? Quote the left thinks parents should not have the ability to discern their own children's education and this administration has targeted as terrorists if they demand it. The right is literally banning books. When in the entirety of world history have the people who ban books turned out to be the good guys? Quote the left has changed definitions and science to push agendas. not extreme at all. I honestly don’t know what this means or is referencing. Quote the left has emboldened criminal behavior with woke DAs slapping people on the wrist while seeking harsh criminal sentances to those who have defended their lives and not the aggressors. The progressive prosecutor movement isn’t even super popular on the left. Here in Chicago, the likely leading mayoral candidate is strongly pro-police and is endorsed by the police union. However, the impact of these prosecutors on crime is greatly over exaggerated on the right because they won’t compare crime rates in similar cities with different approaches (hint: crime is up everywhere) Quote freedom of speech is being erased by the left and ignored/cheered when tactics are used against anyone with differing opinions. covid was prime example twitter was conclusive in this. This conversation started because some on the right are literally calling for a war against their own country because they don’t like what people say. In addition to that, people’s lives are being endangered because the right insists on slandering trans people and drag queens as pedophiles. A guy with a gun went into a pizza place because he thought the owners were using the non-existent basement for pedophilia. There is a popular twitter account on the right that routinely dehumanizes trans people and drag queens, driving people to threaten them or even instigate violence. Quote these arent minor things and there is no justification should be made for any of the above..yet you will and say this will lead to a "better tomorrow". i see it on this board everyday. These aren’t minor things and there is no justification that should be made for any of the above.. yet you will say this will “return us to our values”. I see it on this board every day. Look, the extremists on both sides push unpopular ideas that get popularized by the corporatist media that cares more about getting people mad so they stay tuned in than reporting the truth. But the overwhelming majority on both sides just care about kitchen table issues. They aren’t dialed into politics 24/7 and they aren’t familiar with the majority of things discussed on this board. Instead of defending the position of having us kill each other, why not advocate for ways to bring us back together? PS: if you’re trying to say all members of a political party are as bad as the worst members of that party, do try to remember that the current GOP is supported by literal Nazis. Edited February 22, 2023 by ChiGoose 2 1
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 22, 2023 Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Buffarukus said: how? one side thinks the fundamental principals on which the country was founded are a good basis for living and the other sees them as wrong and must be changed from the very roots. how in the hell is that sustainable and what would make ANYONE think changing them is going to bring about more individual prosperity and freedom then the one place on the planet that has the most? the left wants to divide the national anthem! smothered in identity politics that no longer sees people on a individual basis. it doesn't get more divisive then saying some are discluded from a national anthem or different. you claim the right does this yet i never saw evidence. the left thinks parents should not have the ability to discern their own children's education and this administration has targeted as terrorists if they demand it. the left has changed definitions and science to push agendas. not extreme at all. the left has emboldened criminal behavior with woke DAs slapping people on the wrist while seeking harsh criminal sentances to those who have defended their lives and not the aggressors. freedom of speech is being erased by the left and ignored/cheered when tactics are used against anyone with differing opinions. covid was prime example twitter was conclusive in this. one side wants war..one that can go nuclear...the other want peace talks. these arent minor things and no justification should be made for any of the above..yet you will and say this will lead to a "better tomorrow". i see it on this board everyday. they are LIBERAL principals!!!! https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/republicans-use-wokeism-to-attack-left-but-struggle-to-define-it/ar-AA17K7dS “It used to be that [Republicans] were kind of free traders and anti-Russia and pro-military and for entitlement reform,” Carville said. “Well, that’s all out the window. The only thing they have that unifies them is cultural resentment — ‘Let’s all attack the trans kid’ or ‘We shouldn’t tell seventh graders there are gay people because then they’ll never know.’” Edited February 22, 2023 by redtail hawk 1
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 22, 2023 Posted February 22, 2023 2 hours ago, ChiGoose said: The right today is mythologizing a past that never existed. nailed it. Leave it to beaver was a tv show. not real life for most Americans. This idealized, white bread, picket fence, apple pie, high pay for unskilled labor, lock step sexuality, conflict free world for everyone has really only existed in the minds of righty political strategists, advertisers and propagandists. and they've convinced people that there actually was a time when all these things were real. never was, likely never will be. the wizard of oz was fantasy. just a little guy pulling levers behind a curtain and fooling enough people to stay in control. honesty, candor, elections and civil discussions on our differences and similarities (and there are many that all humans share through biology and instinct) are where the solutions lie.
sherpa Posted February 22, 2023 Posted February 22, 2023 8 hours ago, redtail hawk said: Does anyone believe the stockpile of civilian weaponry could compete with F16's and state of the art drones etc? It'd be over faster than you can say Iraq. But people would needlessly die. Ridiculous to even consider. Sure there are people that would be traitors within the military but punish a few appropriately and it would stop quickly. c'mon guys. I admit that I haven't read this thread, but if this is a reference to some kind of civil war, I most strongly disagree with your conclusion regarding the military. I get that the entire thing is hypothetical. "Punishing a few" would not stop the disintegration of an all voluntary military. Additionally, you could never get US pilots to do something internally of any scale.
LeviF Posted February 22, 2023 Posted February 22, 2023 The sheer amount of constitutional and historical illiteracy demonstrated above should be apparent to anyone with a high school education, but unfortunately the ideological capture of public institutions in this country means that said education basically taught three historical touchpoints and zero context for any of them. You can feel free to ignore anyone who uses the phrase “literal nazis,” insists that the founders didn’t mean what they said they meant, and pretends that America wasn’t at one time a high-functioning, high-trust society prior to 1964. 1
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 22, 2023 Posted February 22, 2023 1 hour ago, sherpa said: I admit that I haven't read this thread, but if this is a reference to some kind of civil war, I most strongly disagree with your conclusion regarding the military. I get that the entire thing is hypothetical. "Punishing a few" would not stop the disintegration of an all voluntary military. Additionally, you could never get US pilots to do something internally of any scale. so you are saying that the military would abandon the chain of command in a civil war and not defend the nation from internal attack? where's the precedent for that in US history? the plantation owners and elites of the south lead its succession. the military on each side largely did what they were ordered. Has there ever been a mass mutiny amongst the US military? why would it happen now? because they are volunteers? 1
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