Bills roster: under contract, RFA, UFA (Sal C tweet)

[wvbillsfan]

16 hours ago, Klaus said:

While I agree with most of the name on this list, I think I would downgrade Andre Roberts to the "So Long" category. 

 

Lifetime numbers

25.8 avg kick return

9.0 avg punt return

 

Playoff numbers

16.7 avg kick return

4.0 avg punt return

 

As we saw he cannot be trusted to replace an injured WR, he is not used for jet sweeps, he is a one trick pony, and I don't think the roster spot is worth it anymore. Take a touchback on kickoffs, start at the 25 and trust Josh and the O to move it down field. 

Agree. I’d rather spend the money to keep McKenzie. His speed is just different and he can help on offense. I think he had more return touchdowns than Robert’s did in his Buffalo career as well. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

43 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

When Star gets back, I cannot imagine they keep three 1 techs (Harry, Star and Butler).   Unless Harry can still go 3-tech (he looking reallly big these days) , I'm thinking Harry goes if Butler dead cap hit is too big.  Anyone know what that is? 

 

Has Harry every been a 3TDT?

 

I don't think Butler was intended to be a 1TDT.  He played there, but I don't think it's his thing.

 

You can look up dead cap hits, but there is absolutely no reason to cut a guy on a rookie deal who was only just coming back from ACL

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

16 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Coach Sal tweeted a useful spreadsheet of the Bills players under contract, restricted FA and unrestricted FA (blue) next year.

Thought it would be interesting to look at.  If I missed this elsewhere LMK.

 

Discuss.

 

 

 

Who/What position are your priorities? 

 

Recall that RFA gives the team a chance to match a contract offer to the tendered player, or to get a draft pick if they can't/don't match.  The choices of tender are 1st, 2nd, or original round so it's not much help with a player signed from a late round or UDFA.

 

Priorities to re-sign:

Corey Bojorquez.  He can be maddening, but he can also coffin-corner and turn aside a team's attempts to flip the field.

Daryl Williams.  If the question is "who can play RT?", I don't think Cody Ford is the answer.

Matt Milano.  We may not afford him, but try.

Isaiah McKenzie.  Has that quickness you can't match.

Jon Feliciano.  I hesitate here.  It will depend upon what he wants, but he's the perfect backup center and (both sides) guard

Ike Boettger.  I hope he's depth, but I'm not sold on Cody Ford making it through a season at this point.

 

Nice to have, make an offer:

Andre Roberts

Dean Marlowe

Andre Smith

Matt Barkley (I think they hope Fromm is the long-term center, but competition is good)

 

So long:

Trent Murphy

Josh Norman

Brian Winters

Ty Nseckhe (if we can re-sign Williams, and depends on what they think of Bates as a Tackle)

Jordan Devey

Tyler Kroft

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agree with most of your picks.  The one worry I do have about Daryl Williams is he fits the category of a guy playing on a contract year.  Will he be this good once he has a long term deal.  But McD & Beane should know him pretty good for their Carolina days together so would trust them to decide on that.

 

I'd also cut Brown, Addison, and Jefferson I believe it is.  Keep mixing up him and Butler, would cut the one that came from Carolina and keep the one from Seattle.   Add in a couple more restructures like Hyde to save some $$

 

Don't even know who Jordan Devey is??  LOL

 

One name missing from your list is T Jones which brings me to my next point.

 

A mild concern I have with the Bills roster is have they gotten to the point where they have too many special teams only players, thus limiting roster depth.  Jones, Roberts, Matakevich are three guys who are exclusive to ST.  Obviously on top of that add in the kicker, punter, and long snapper too.  Add in Lee Smith who is solely there as a blocking TE, that's seven roster slots.  Gilliam does play some offense so am more comfortable with a role like that as does provide some additional functionality to the team.  Overall the Bills ST was very good this year, but did it short change other positions. 

 

Personally I was apprehensive of activating Williams at RB over Yeldon for the playoffs based on his limited experience, but would have been fine with activating him as a 3rd option, give him a couple plays to see what he could do.  But to do that would have needed to sit someone at some other position group.  Seem to recall most teams only activate eight D lineman whereas we always had nine active, further limits you in other positions.

 

With all these specialists, kind of limits options.  Maybe every team in the league has 3 to 4 roster slots dedicated to ST not counting the true kicking game specialists, if that's the case, then OK my concern goes away.  But have the Bills maybe gone a little too far and limiting other slots.

 

 

[Saxum]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Webb was said to have looked better than Fromm in camp.  The knock on Davis Webb seemed to be that he lacked accuracy.  Well, as we've seen, accuracy can be improved with the right kind of effort.

 

Webb needs to become Allen's best buddy.

4 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

TE - I know everyone wants better production, but I really think unless someone falls in the draft and can’t be passed up - your TE room is set with the 5 guys they have - assuming Sweeney clears health wise - which I would expect.

 

Sweeney a healthy athletic male had heart damage,  myocarditis, a condition marked by inflammation of the heart muscle..

He may or may not be back.

[Saxum]

3 hours ago, Buddo said:

I quite like Norman, but he isn't the player he once was.

 

Norman I would only sign for veteran minimum. If he has another suiter he can take his chance elsewhere.

 

I think Bills will need to sign a number of players for veteran minimum for cap benefits.

 

From 2020 CBA: Players with seven or more years of experience will have a minimum salary of $1.05 million in 2020 under the new deal, up from either $810,000 (for players with seven to nine years of experience) or $910,000 (for players with 10 or more years of experience

 

https://frontofficenfl.com/2020/05/25/2020-nfl-cba-explained-veteran-salary-benefit/

Quote

Below are the two types of salary benefits for veteran players:

 

Veteran salary benefit: Formerly known as the minimum salary benefit, the veteran salary benefit allow teams to offer a “Qualifying Contract” to any player with at least four credited seasons at a reduced salary cap hit. Under this provision, a qualifying contract is a one-year deal worth the minimum base salary applicable to a player with his number of credited seasons, plus $137,500 in additional compensation (i.e., signing bonus, roster bonus, incentive, etc. — amount begins to increase in 2022). These contracts are charged against the salary cap at the rate of a player with two credited seasons that league year.

 

Four-year qualifying contract: Another type of veteran salary benefit, it can be offered to a player with at least four credited seasons whose contract with a team has expired after being on said team for four or more consecutive, uninterrupted league years prior to his contract expiring. Such a player must have been on the team’s 90-man active/inactive list for said seasons (and every regular-season and postseason game). Teams can sign a maximum of two eligible players to this type of salary benefit.

 

A qualifying contract under this benefit is a one-year deal with a base salary of up to $1.25 million more (set to increase in 2022) than the minimum base salary for said player. However, if a team does sign two players to a qualifying contract, it can only give a combined $1.25 million in additional base salary between the two deals. Under such agreements, only the applicable minimum base salary (not the $1.25 million benefit) is charged against the salary cap.

 

[Buddo]

I don't think the Bills will be alone in trying to sign a number of guys to vet minimums.

 

I think Norman is probably done here, mainly because Gaines should be back, and tbh, I think Gaines might be a genuine candidate for #2 CB. Jackson is probably only going to get better, and iirc, Cam Lewis has looked as though he might be able to play.

 

I believe that Norman was partly signed due to experience, both in the system, and on the field. He showed that in making a few plays. Another year on for the group, and that experience is probably no longer needed.

 

As to the D-Line, there might be a cap casualty somewhere, but I'm not convinced it is something they will want to do. The reasoning behind that, is that the guys they brought in, were intended to have Star alongside of them, and that never happened, and we never found even an inadequate replacement for him. If he is back, they might be prepared, or wanting, to stick to their original 'plan'.

[Nitro]

17 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

What do you guys think of Quinton Jefferson?

 

I'll be honest, McD/Frazier rotate so much on DL that I gave up on figuring out who was playing where and how well they were doing.

 

But he stood out to me because he's got one of the smaller dead cap hits.  Horrid reason to single out a player, but that's where we are.

Quality over quantity next season.  The Bills will figure it out.

[RyanC883]

Priority/players I want back: 

McKenzie: this is Robert’s special teams replacement, and is a great gadget player on offense.  Just need to remind Daboll that we have him in the playoffs!

D. Williams: this will help solidify the Right Tackle position.  As OP noted, Ford is not the answer. 

J. Feliciano:  while I’m underwhelmed with his play in the AFC Championship game, he is a great backup at the very least as a G/C. 

C. Bojorquez.  Seemed more dependable this year.  Ability to flip the field is tremendous and saves us from having other teams start within FG range. 

L. Wallace.  Fits in well with this D.  Provides a decent CB2 range/backup CB. 

 

Nice/$$ Dependent:

 

Barkely.  Would like him back.  Good to have a vet backup QB, although I’m not opposed to brining in a better vet backup.  Likely that Jake is the long term backup solution. 

Milano: would like him back.  D is better with him, but he’s not irreplaceable.  His injury history makes him likely to be affordable.  He totally vanished against KC in terms of impact plays. 

D. Marlowe:  great as a backup safety. 

B. Winters.  Good as OL depth. 

Ty N.  Good OL depth. 

 

Cut/Use Cap Space for other FA Acquisitions:

 

Josh Norman

Andre Roberts

Trent Murphy (he was great against Balt, then was inactive v. KC, which is puzzling). 

Tyler Kroft. (I’d actually like him back, but since the coaching staff has forgotten he exists, his cap money is better spent on an impact DL/DE)

TJ Yeldon (same as Kroft, plus, I’m hoping we draft a RB that can catch, hit the hole, and you know, be put into the lineup by the coaching staff)

Andre Smith.  Likely we draft a LB or get another one in FA that makes him expendable. 

[frostbitmic]

3 hours ago, Buddo said:

I don't think the Bills will be alone in trying to sign a number of guys to vet minimums.

 

I think Norman is probably done here, mainly because Gaines should be back, and tbh, I think Gaines might be a genuine candidate for #2 CB. Jackson is probably only going to get better, and iirc, Cam Lewis has looked as though he might be able to play.

 

I believe that Norman was partly signed due to experience, both in the system, and on the field. He showed that in making a few plays. Another year on for the group, and that experience is probably no longer needed.

 

As to the D-Line, there might be a cap casualty somewhere, but I'm not convinced it is something they will want to do. The reasoning behind that, is that the guys they brought in, were intended to have Star alongside of them, and that never happened, and we never found even an inadequate replacement for him. If he is back, they might be prepared, or wanting, to stick to their original 'plan'.

Gaines was cut today.

[ganesh]

On 1/29/2021 at 7:54 AM, BillsRdue said:

Agreed, my answer would be the same, except I'd say goodbye to Barkley. That noodle arm isn't going to hold up and I don't think he could go .500 if Josh were to miss any time. Lots of solid options out there looking for work that would be an upgrade. If the Panthers make a run at Watson, Teddy B might be a nice #2. If not Brissett, Fitz, Dalton, Tyrod over even Bortles would be upgrades.  

Fitz will stay in Miami and so will Dalton in Dallas. 

Tyrod might follow Lynn to Detroit where he could be a stop-gap starter if they draft a QB high

 

Brissett is the interesting one.  Will Indy keep him

[Doc]

10 hours ago, ganesh said:

Fitz will stay in Miami and so will Dalton in Dallas. 

Tyrod might follow Lynn to Detroit where he could be a stop-gap starter if they draft a QB high

 

Brissett is the interesting one.  Will Indy keep him

 

No chance.  The locker room loves him and they will want to develop Tua.

[Saxum]

11 hours ago, ganesh said:

Fitz will stay in Miami and so will Dalton in Dallas. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Doc said:

No chance.  The locker room loves him and they will want to develop Tua.

 

I think Fitz will want to take the show on the road and be a QB on another team he has not been before.

[Doc]

8 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

I think Fitz will want to take the show on the road and be a QB on another team he has not been before.

 

I don't think he'll have a choice.

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

12 hours ago, ganesh said:

Fitz will stay in Miami and so will Dalton in Dallas. 

Tyrod might follow Lynn to Detroit where he could be a stop-gap starter if they draft a QB high

 

Brissett is the interesting one.  Will Indy keep him

If somehow Miami gets Watson, I think they keep Tua as the future #2. A return to the Jets would not be out of the question. Teddy B is my #1 choice for QB2 if Watson goes to the Panthers. I know Barkley is a good fit in the QB room but on the field he is a liability. Brisset is #2.

Edited January 30, 2021 by BillsRdue

[TPS]

On 1/28/2021 at 11:57 PM, John from Riverside said:

I would rather not do this....but it would not shock me to see the bills let RT Williams walk......draft a RT.....and sign Milano

 

I dont like it because it doesnt make us immediately better.....but we are in strange times as far as salary cap goes

John (from my home town), the more I think about this, the more I realize the Bills are in a bind in their efforts to get past the Chiefs. The good news is we have Josh Allen who will help the Bills get to the playoffs for a long time. The bad news is the Chiefs. 

 

Given their current weaknesses, putting together a team that can overcome the chiefs will be difficult.  How to do the things necessary to get past the Chiefs, given their current cap situation and weaknesses, won't be easy.  I don't see them doing wholesale changes, but marginal changes also pushes them into other areas of weakness down the line (for example, if they take more than 2 years to get to the point where they can beat the chiefs, Poyer and Hyde will be on the wrong end of their careers).  I think they shoot for 2022 as the year to give the Chiefs a run.  So, how to do it? Some thoughts...

 

On offense:

The main issue seems to be the interior of the O-line (the Teller trade was a mistake in hindsight). Here's where you're probably right about Williams, or Steady Eddie as Beane called him. Try to sign him to stabilize the OT positions, so you can focus on improving the middle, especially C. Cut bait with Morse, as he's not the guy you need to take on Jones. Re-sign Feliciano with the expectation he'll play center in 2021, but this is not the long-term solution. A healthy Ford can play RG.  As of now, I'm leaning toward making C the top priority in the draft. The two Centers listed in this article are intriguing, especially Meinerz (given what some are writing about him, he will probably be projected right around where the Bills are). Start him at LG in 2021, then move to C.  https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2021/01/kadarius-toney-4-other-bills-draft-targets-playing-in-2021-senior-bowl.html

 

Relatedly, I believe the run game had more to do with the O-line than the RBs (did we miss Spain here?), but Knox also seems to be an issue. I would not make RB a priority (maybe find a speed guy in the later rounds), but they do need to do something at TE.  I think Sweeney, if healthy, could end up a good middle option, good blocker and decent pass catcher.  I'm not sure what the solution is here though.  There was a post about Ertz, but I wouldn't give up much to get him (5th?), if that's an option. Smith will be gone ($2.2 mil).

 

At WR, It's probably best to move on from Brown, from both a cap and production standpoint ($7.9 mil).  Diggs, Beasley, and Davis give them a solid core, but I don't think Davis is ready to be anointed WR2.  I think they need another solid option here, and I like the idea of a shifty speedster, so they might have to get that in the draft. Between Kumerow and Hodgins (?), they have some depth at the back end.

 

On Defense:

The main issue here is finding a dominant edge rusher, and that won't be easy when you are drafting where the Bills will be drafting.  I think they will eventually have to do this via trade or FA, but will they have the cap space? Certainly not in 2021, but maybe 2022 when Jerry is gone? I think they can make a lot of changes for 2021 without much of a fall-off though. To free up space, they should move on from Addison, Butler, and Jefferson ($19.4 mil).  While Star may not be a Super Star, he is a better option at DT1 than they had this year, and having him back will help the LBs and Ed.  I think they go with Star, Ed, Harry, and Zimmer here, then at DE you have Hughes, Epenesa, Johnson, and maybe Love.  I think Star in the middle helps offset the slight drop off at DE, though I'm higher on Epenesa than some.

 

At LB, bring Milano back. I know some of have questions about both Milano and Edmunds, but they are a very solid duo. 

 

In the secondary, finding that CB2 is the big issue. A lot of people like Jackson, but he still has a lot to prove. Wallace at least gives them someone they know, but I see them drafting someone in the first 3 rounds.  It remains to be seen what they do with Hyde after 2021. 

 

The suggested cuts above give them $34+ million.  Signing Milano, Williams, and Feliciano probably takes up 2/3 of that leaving them $ to sign guys like Wallace, Bojo, et al.   My targets in the draft would be C, then WR and CB.  I think this would leave the Bills slightly more competitive overall, but not much.

 

For 2022, currently Spotrac shows $95 million in space, but that includes Morse and Addison, which adds another $21 mil. Signing Josh and the 3 I listed for this year takes up maybe $55 mil in 2022, leaving $50-$60 mil to sign guys like Edmunds and Phillips, and add an Edge in FA or by trade, though easier said than done.  I think will finding an edge rusher will prove the most difficult task for Beane going forward.   It may take a move up in the draft to do this...

 

Ok,enough of my Saturday distraction.

 

 

Edited January 30, 2021 by TPS

[LABILLBACKER]

Williams and Feliciano are top priorities. Followed by Milano and McKenzie on lower end deals. With Gaines gone keep Wallace on a low end deal and let him battle it out with Dane Jackson for CB2.  As much as I like Yeldon, I think the coaches have given up on him. Demote Singletary to RB2 or lower. A whole bunch of guys on the DL are not returning. And get ready to allocate a brinks truck to Josh.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Williams and Feliciano are top priorities. Followed by Milano and McKenzie on lower end deals. With Gaines gone keep Wallace on a low end deal and let him battle it out with Dane Jackson for CB2.  As much as I like Yeldon, I think the coaches have given up on him. Demote Singletary to RB2 or lower. A whole bunch of guys on the DL are not returning. And get ready to allocate a brinks truck to Josh.

 

Williams for sure.  It's between Feliciano and Morse.  And they'll RFA tag Wallace.  Yeldon is an UDFA and I highly doubt he'd re-sign with the Bills after the way they used him.

[LABILLBACKER]

On 1/29/2021 at 10:44 AM, wvbillsfan said:

Agree. I’d rather spend the money to keep McKenzie. His speed is just different and he can help on offense. I think he had more return touchdowns than Robert’s did in his Buffalo career as well. 

I hope the staff realizes Isaiah's value over Roberts is indisputable. McKenzie has 6 receiving td, 2 rushing and a punt return. Roberts over the same 2 years has 3 receiving tds, 0 rushing and 0 returns. Isaiah is 25 and fast as hell. Andre is 33 and never took one to the house. This is a no brainer. Keep McKittrick, he the closest player we have to Tyreek. 

[billsfan_34]

On 1/28/2021 at 9:03 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Coach Sal tweeted a useful spreadsheet of the Bills players under contract, restricted FA and unrestricted FA (blue) next year.

Thought it would be interesting to look at.  If I missed this elsewhere LMK.

 

Discuss.

 

 

 

Who/What position are your priorities? 

 

Recall that RFA gives the team a chance to match a contract offer to the tendered player, or to get a draft pick if they can't/don't match.  The choices of tender are 1st, 2nd, or original round so it's not much help with a player signed from a late round or UDFA.

 

Priorities to re-sign:

Corey Bojorquez.  He can be maddening, but he can also coffin-corner and turn aside a team's attempts to flip the field.

Daryl Williams.  If the question is "who can play RT?", I don't think Cody Ford is the answer.

Matt Milano.  We may not afford him, but try.

Isaiah McKenzie.  Has that quickness you can't match.

Jon Feliciano.  I hesitate here.  It will depend upon what he wants, but he's the perfect backup center and (both sides) guard

Ike Boettger.  I hope he's depth, but I'm not sold on Cody Ford making it through a season at this point.

 

Nice to have, make an offer:

Andre Roberts

Dean Marlowe

Andre Smith

Matt Barkley (I think they hope Fromm is the long-term center, but competition is good)

 

So long:

Trent Murphy

Josh Norman

Brian Winters

Ty Nseckhe (if we can re-sign Williams, and depends on what they think of Bates as a Tackle)

Jordan Devey

Tyler Kroft

 

 

 

 

 

Ford is a guard, and has been bad at both the tackle and guard position? Maybe 3 times a charm and we put him at center lol

On 1/28/2021 at 10:19 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

What do you guys think of Quinton Jefferson?

 

I'll be honest, McD/Frazier rotate so much on DL that I gave up on figuring out who was playing where and how well they were doing.

 

But he stood out to me because he's got one of the smaller dead cap hits.  Horrid reason to single out a player, but that's where we are.

We need Brown- he was hobbled this season but when he is healthy our offense is tough- he helps to take the top off.

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, billsfan_34 said:

Ford is a guard, and has been bad at both the tackle and guard position? Maybe 3 times a charm and we put him at center lol

We need Brown- he was hobbled this season but when he is healthy our offense is tough- he helps to take the top off.

McKenzie can take the same top off for 1/3 the money. And he's younger. And he can return punts & kickoffs. And he can come in for sweeps and gadgets. Sorry John and Andre but one guy can replace both of you.