Deshaun Watson officially requests trade from Houston

[Rico]

13 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

It is!  Could have fooled me.

 

In 12 seasons Stafford has thrown for 45,109 yards;  282 TD's & 144 INT's.  In 8/12 of Stafford's seasons he has thrown for over 4,000 yards.  That's 2/3 of his career. 

 

Watson has thrown for over 4,000 yards in half of his seasons (2/4).

 

And when you look at their best seasons so far Stafford holds up well against Watson. 

 

A couple of great Stafford seasons:  2017 = 4446 yards;  29 TD's & 10 INT's and in 2011 = 5038 yards;  41 TD's & 16 INT's.

 

Watson's two best seasons:  2018 = 4165 yards;  26 TD's & 9 INT's and in 2020 = 4823 yards;  33 TD's & 7 INT's

 

So yea, they do belong in the same discussion.

 

 

 

 

They've both started 3 playoff games. Watson is 1-2, Stafford is 0-3.

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Matt Stafford's best season coming 8 years after he came into the league? Yea. Keep reaching.

Stafford threw for 5038 yards and 41 TD's in only his THIRD season.  So I don't think I'm reaching one bit.

 

 

[Solomon Grundy]

9 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

As for Brady, hey I hate him as much as the next Bills fan but he is the reason that Tampa Bay won the Super Bowl this year.  That alone makes him a better QB then Watson IMO

You don’t think Tampa’s defense had anything to do with that??

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Solomon Grundy said:

You don’t think Tampa’s defense had anything to do with that??

Of course they did.  But do you believe that Tampa wins a playoff game without Brady?  Do you think they win THREE playoff games just to get to the Super Bowl without Brady?

 

I just don't agree with those posters that appear to be suggesting that you assess QB's based solely on their stats. In no other position in all of sports do the intangibles matter as much as they do with QB in football.  Brady was the reason the Bucs won the Super Bowl and his passing skills were only a part of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NewEra]

17 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

What does this have to do with Josh Allen? 

 

Watson put up a top 5 quarterback season on a dreadful team. Your takes on him are bad.

I love this and the allen vs Watson thread.  They’ve been the most entertaining threads of the offseason imo!

[Rico]

3 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Of course they did.  But do you believe that Tampa wins a playoff game without Brady?  Do you think they win THREE playoff games just to get to the Super Bowl without Brady?

 

I just don't agree with those posters that appear to be suggesting that you assess QB's based solely on their stats. In no other position in all of sports do the intangibles matter as much as they do with QB in football.  Brady was the reason the Bucs won the Super Bowl and his passing skills were only a part of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not the NFL, but Deshaun Watson's intangibles at Clemson were tremendous, no way they beat Alabama in his last game without him.

[NewEra]

16 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Of course they did.  But do you believe that Tampa wins a playoff game without Brady?  Do you think they win THREE playoff games just to get to the Super Bowl without Brady?

 

I just don't agree with those posters that appear to be suggesting that you assess QB's based solely on their stats. In no other position in all of sports do the intangibles matter as much as they do with QB in football.  Brady was the reason the Bucs won the Super Bowl and his passing skills were only a part of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It’s all your fault that my wife yelled at me for cooking her steaks to medium instead of med rare. I got caught up laughing at your posts and forgot about the meat!! 
 

well worth it though!  My steak was thicker and a perfect med rate.  Perfect steak and good laughs 👍🏻
 

 

Edited March 1, 2021 by NewEra

[Rico]

16 minutes ago, NewEra said:

It’s all your fault that my wife yelled at me for cooking her steaks to medium instead of med rare. I got caught up laughing at your posts and forgot about the meat!! 
 

well worth it though!  My steak was thicker and a perfect med rate.  Perfect steak and good laughs 👍🏻
 

 

Here you go:

https://tinyurl.com/a62vyrna

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, Rico said:

Here you go:

https://tinyurl.com/a62vyrna

That’s literally what happened.  Not even trying to be witty.  
 

Thanks for the tips though.  Maybe I can be as witty as you with some practice 

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Stafford threw for 5038 yards and 41 TD's in only his THIRD season.  So I don't think I'm reaching one bit.

 

 

[Solomon Grundy]

56 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Of course they did.  But do you believe that Tampa wins a playoff game without Brady?  Do you think they win THREE playoff games just to get to the Super Bowl without Brady?

 

I just don't agree with those posters that appear to be suggesting that you assess QB's based solely on their stats. In no other position in all of sports do the intangibles matter as much as they do with QB in football.  Brady was the reason the Bucs won the Super Bowl and his passing skills were only a part of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe Aaron Rodgers would’ve won with that team. Honestly, I think Deshaun Watson would have won with that roster.

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

I just don't agree with those posters that appear to be suggesting that you assess QB's based solely on their stats. In no other position in all of sports do the intangibles matter as much as they do with QB in football.  Brady was the reason the Bucs won the Super Bowl and his passing skills were only a part of it.

 

 

Woah you are the guy saying DeShaun Watson is Matt Stafford because they both put up "stats". Now you want it to be about wins?

 

Okay.

Matt Stafford first 4 years: 17-28, 0-1

Deshaun Watson first 4 years: 28-25, 1-2

 

You are the one flip flopping hilariously from stats to wins as it suits you to make what is frankly a bizarre argument. 

[CincyBillsFan]

12 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I believe Aaron Rodgers would’ve won with that team. Honestly, I think Deshaun Watson would have won with that roster.

 

Fair enough.  That's a reasonable opinion.

 

And I agree that Rogers could have won a SB with this years Tampa team but I don't agree that Watson would have.  So far Watson's playoff record and performances don't indicate to me that he could have carried the Buc's through 4 straight playoff games.

 

In fact if we're going to be talking hypothetical situations I think Allen would have been more likley to lead this years Tampa team to a SB then Watson would have. 

 

 

 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Woah you are the guy saying DeShaun Watson is Matt Stafford because they both put up "stats". Now you want it to be about wins?

 

Okay.

Matt Stafford first 4 years: 17-28, 0-1

Deshaun Watson first 4 years: 28-25, 1-2

 

You are the one flip flopping hilariously from stats to wins as it suits you to make what is frankly a bizarre argument. 

 

To be clear I said that Watson MIGHT turn into the AFC's version of Stafford if he was traded to Miami or the Jets.  You need to get that right to understand my point.

 

And it's NOT flip flopping to point out that you judge a QB based on MULTIPLE factors including stats, leadership, toughness & wins.  Again you seem to have failed to grasp that my point was that a QB should be judged by more then just the stats and that intangibles play a big part in the assessment.

 

But can we at least agree that Watson has been fortunate to play on a very good football team through his first 3 seasons?   Last year was the first time the team around him sucked. At least that's what your the records you posted above seem to say.

 

 

 

[Boxcar]

On 2/27/2021 at 9:01 PM, CincyBillsFan said:

 

I disagree.  IMO Allen is better then Watson now and that gap will only widen next season.

 

IMO I also consider Rogers, Brady & Wilson to be clearly better then Watson.

 

And I'm curious as to what you would say is Watson's "proven" track record?  He's clearly been a very good QB on a decent team during his first 3 seasons but beyond that what has he actually proven? 

 

 

He's proven that he's good at playing QB. In a year where the league was packed with great QBs, Watson, with no Diggs, Lockett, Metcalf, Hill, Kelce or Evans tier receivers, led the league in passing yards. I can't imagine time of possession was great for the Texans, either, given their awful defense. He's special. He's better than Wilson. I view it Mahomes-Allen/Rodgers/Watson-Brady that are my top 5. Prescott when healthy and Wilson are up there, too. Imo, it's a clear top 4, though, and you could probably 2-4 in any order and justify it until Josh Allen ascends next season to be the new unquestioned #1.

[TheFunPolice]

The Stafford/Watson conversation is interesting... Stafford is actually someone I thought of for a Watson comparison.

 

Both put up stats, and both are very good. Both also play(ed) for terrible franchises, although the Texans were halfway respectable until this past season. Watson had a pretty nice supporting cast, whereas Stafford never really did. 

 

What did the Texans in was giving O'Brien the power to destroy the team with idiotic moves that left them without star players or draft picks, which takes some real doing. With all the moves they made they should at least have a nice boatload of draft picks. Somehow they have nothing.

 

That and hiring a televangelist as the team president. 

 

Edited March 1, 2021 by TheFunPolice

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, TheFunPolice said:

The Stafford/Watson conversation is interesting... Stafford is actually someone I thought of for a Watson comparison.

 

Both put up stats, and both are very good. Both also play(ed) for terrible franchises, although the Texans were halfway respectable until this past season. Watson had a pretty nice supporting cast, whereas Stafford never really did. 

 

What did the Texans in was giving O'Brien the power to destroy the team with idiotic moves that left them without star players or draft picks, which takes some real doing. 

 

That and hiring a televangelist as the team president. 

 

Nice supporting cast = the bottom 3 OL in the league the last 3 season.  Hopkins was “the nice supporting cast”.  Fuller was hurt 1/2 the time.  No tight ends.  No RBs.  No coaching.  Solid front 7 with no secondary.  
 

JMO, they won because of Watson, Hopkins and Watt imo.  The rest of the “nice supporting cast” were made to look good because those 3 made them look good.  
 

[TheFunPolice]

Just now, NewEra said:

Nice supporting cast = the bottom 3 OL in the league the last 3 season.  Hopkins was “the nice supporting cast”.  Fuller was hurt 1/2 the time.  No tight ends.  No RBs.  No coaching.  Solid front 7 with no secondary.  
 

JMO, they won because of Watson, Hopkins and Watt imo.  The rest of the “nice supporting cast” were made to look good because those 3 made them look good.  
 

 

Houston had some nice players, especially on defense. 

 

Clowney was a nice tandem with Watt, netting 9 sacks Watson's first 2 seasons. Coaching was never great in Houston or Detroit, but other than Calvin Johnson (in his Megatron days) I can't think of a single Lions player of note aside from Stafford. 

 

I'm not saying Stafford is better, don't get me wrong. I am saying that Stafford is going to shock some people now that he FINALLY has a real coach and a good team around him. Watson just reminds me of him: lots of stats, not a lot of winning, although more W's than Stafford at the same point in their careers. 

[GunnerBill]

43 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

But can we at least agree that Watson has been fortunate to play on a very good football team through his first 3 seasons?   Last year was the first time the team around him sucked. At least that's what your the records you posted above seem to say.

 

 

No we can't agree that. In 2017 Deshaun Watson was a rookie started 6 games at went 3-3. Without him Houston went 1-9. The roster was decent at that point but they were completely injury ravaged even aside from losing Watson. That resulted in a 4-12 season. 

 

In 2018 they were a pretty good roster. No doubt. They had a top 5 defense - JJ Watt played all 16 games, they still had Jadaveon Clowney opposite him, they had DJ Reader in the middle of that Dline and they had Tyron Mathieu and Kareem Jackson in the secondary. Offensively the line sucked and their backs and tight ends were pretty average but they had probably the best receiver in the game, a good #2 for half the season and a good Quarterback. 

 

In 2019 Watt played only 8 games, Clowney was gone, Mathieu was gone and Jackson was gone. The defense consequently went from top 5 in points allowed to 19th. On offense their line improved a bit, Carlos Hyde had a career year (helped by running against light boxes) and Fuller got up to 11 games alongside Hopkins. I can strongly make a case that roster should not have won 11 games. 

 

In 2020 Watt did play all 16 games but DJ Reader became the latest piece off that once top 5 defense to disappear and the defense ranked 27th, they traded away their best receiver, Fuller again missed time, their oline regressed, they fired their coach after 4 weeks and the season became a lost cause pretty early. Now I'd also say as much as the 2019 Texans shouldn't have won 11 games I think the 2020 Texans should have won more than 4. They outplayed the Titans once and the Colts twice and managed to blow those games. That is the bounce of the ball in the NFL. 

 

So you have to have context. I think the 2018 team was a decent team and they lost a playoff game to a less talented Indianapolis squad in Watson's first playoff exposure where he did not play well. The 2019 team with a less able Quarterback would have been a .500 team at absolute best. 

42 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

Houston had some nice players, especially on defense. 

 

They did in 2018. They were injury ravaged in '17 and they had pretty much all gone by '19. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Boxcar said:

He's proven that he's good at playing QB. In a year where the league was packed with great QBs, Watson, with no Diggs, Lockett, Metcalf, Hill, Kelce or Evans tier receivers, led the league in passing yards. I can't imagine time of possession was great for the Texans, either, given their awful defense. He's special. He's better than Wilson. I view it Mahomes-Allen/Rodgers/Watson-Brady that are my top 5. Prescott when healthy and Wilson are up there, too. Imo, it's a clear top 4, though, and you could probably 2-4 in any order and justify it until Josh Allen ascends next season to be the new unquestioned #1.

 

 

He had Hopkins for 3 years.  1 playoff win.  He's never carried that team.  He's had 1 career year with numbers Wilson has averaged over the past 6 seasons.  Wilson has led a top 10 O for 8 of his 9 seasons.  He scored 37 of the team's 38 TDs in 2017 in the only season they didn't make the playoffs.  He's gotten them to the playoffs the last 3 years with mediocre (or worse) D's.  Before Lockett and Metcalf (who's been around for 2 seasons), Wilson was doing it with Doug Baldwin.  

 

Watson has a ways to go to catch Wilson.