RoyBatty is alive Posted January 28, 2021 Posted January 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, BurpleBull said: Is that to say that the hatred they have for the FO now extends to Watson because he no longer wants to deal with it? Are those the sentiments being expressed by Texans' fans? I dont think the fan base hates Watson or blames him AT ALL. I dont know what triggered Watson, FINALLY. After the trading of Hopkins the rest was almost inevitable. Watson should have asked for a trade the next day and/or McNair should have fired O Brien.
Chaos Posted January 28, 2021 Posted January 28, 2021 5 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Why take a QB? If you are getting #2 or #3 you don't need to. Pick your own rather than taking a reclamation project that is gonna be almost impossible to sell to your already furious fanbase. For me 3 #1 picks plus either two #3s or a #2 and a #4 is about where I'd pitch the price. Should say if I am trading with the 9ers or Panthers I do want their QB as part of the deal because I am probably out of position to draft one. From a pure PR standpoint taking back TUA or Darnold seems to be a disaster. I think the most logical trade partner is Cleveland. Mayfield is a legit QB. Him plus a Couple of draft picks gives the Texans real credibility. And Cleveland boosts its chances.
DrDawkinstein Posted January 28, 2021 Posted January 28, 2021 Just now, Doc said: Fans are usually fans of the team, not player. Once a player is gone, especially if he demands to leave, they turn on him instantly. Maybe, but I remember most of us staying pissed at the Bills over things like the Jason Peters fiasco. Pat Williams comes to mind too. Especially when the team is losing year after year, and it is clear the problem is in ownership/management.
BurpleBull Posted January 28, 2021 Posted January 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Watson is the Franchise, the future. If the team actually gets it together and starts to rise, the fans will forgive if not forget. Winning changes everything. If the team trades Watson, their chance to get it together and rise drop enormously. If they trade Watson, get a Top 3 pick in return (let's say Trevor Lawrence), get it together and begin to rise, the fans would forgive if not forget about Watson's departure and the FO's handling of things, right? The Franchise, the future doesn't want to be there and this doesn't strike me as being a situation where simply winning appeases Watson, it desire to leave seems deeper than that.
UKBillFan Posted January 28, 2021 Posted January 28, 2021 The debate over Josh v Watson makes me return to the question posted earlier in the thread - if a miracle happened and the opportunity was there would you straight swap Watson for Josh? If Watson joins AFCE he joins AFCE. There’s no point bellyaching about it and we can’t do anything about it. Admittedly it would be annoying as it feels like we held the upper hand in the conference and suddenly there’d be another excellent Quarterback in our midsts but that’s what can happen in the NFL.
RoyBatty is alive Posted January 28, 2021 Posted January 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, UKBillFan said: The debate over Josh v Watson makes me return to the question posted earlier in the thread - if a miracle happened and the opportunity was there would you straight swap Watson for Josh? If Watson joins AFCE he joins AFCE. There’s no point bellyaching about it and we can’t do anything about it. Admittedly it would be annoying as it feels like we held the upper hand in the conference and suddenly there’d be another excellent Quarterback in our midsts but that’s what can happen in the NFL. I would take Allen in a heartbeat, he belongs in Buffalo, perfect match. 3
JoshAllenReceipts Posted January 28, 2021 Posted January 28, 2021 (edited) 49 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said: LOL. I love the use of highly selected facts and then the need to declare yourself victorious. "Don't even try and argue with this. Accept it as fact, because it is so, and move on. What a bombastic arrogant statement. Did you even read or comprehend what I wrote? There is a difference between the two teams. You never answered my question, what would Watson numbers look like is he had Diggs and Beasley and Allen had Kekee Coutee and Brandin Cooks. Oh and speaking of FACTS, somehow you forgot these stats Watson : pass yard 4,823 Quarterback Rating 112.4 Int 7 Rushing : 444 yard Fumbles 8 Allen: pass yards 4,544 Quarterback Rating 107.2 Int 10 Rushing 421 Fumbles 9 What about Will Fuller for 11 games? Why did you purposely leave that out? There you go with your "selective stats". Leave out the #1 WR who played in 11 games. Convenient. Once again, Total QBR: Allen = 82 Watson = 71 This is pathetic that you're even trying to argue Allen clearly being a better QB than Watson. Edited January 28, 2021 by JoshAllenReceipts
SCBills Posted January 28, 2021 Posted January 28, 2021 12 minutes ago, BurpleBull said: If they trade Watson, get a Top 3 pick in return (let's say Trevor Lawrence), get it together and begin to rise, the fans would forgive if not forget about Watson's departure and the FO's handling of things, right? The Franchise, the future doesn't want to be there and this doesn't strike me as being a situation where simply winning appeases Watson, it desire to leave seems deeper than that. If they got Trevor Lawrence, the fans would immediately forgive and forget. They're not getting Trevor Lawrence. 1
JoshAllenReceipts Posted January 28, 2021 Posted January 28, 2021 28 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: This is what it looks like when you are cherry picking stats. Except I take Donald Duck more seriously. Not really cherrypicking. Total QBR factors in a whole bunch of things. Josh's QBR was 11 points higher. Josh is clearly the better QB. 32 out of 32 NFL GMs would take Allen in a heartbeat. This discussion is silly because I am 100% right and you are 100% wrong. 1
RoyBatty is alive Posted January 28, 2021 Posted January 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, JoshAllenReceipts said: What about Will Fuller for 11 games? Why did you purposely leave that out? Because he didnt finish the season and he has never finished a season. He is chronically hurt, that is why he was left out. Cant even begin to compare the Texans team to the Bills, not even close. Just now, JoshAllenReceipts said: Not really cherrypicking. Total QBR factors in a whole bunch of things. Josh's QBR was 11 points higher. Josh is clearly the better QB. 32 out of 32 NFL GMs would take Allen in a heartbeat. This discussion is silly because I am 100% right and you are 100% wrong. Yep that PROVES your point. You are stating an opinion as fact , i would elaborate but not interested in getting an infraction from a mod, not today maybe another day. 3 1
JoshAllenReceipts Posted January 28, 2021 Posted January 28, 2021 Just now, RoyBatty is alive said: Because he didnt finish the season and he has never finished a season. He is chronically hurt, that is why he was left out. Cant even begin to compare the Texans team to the Bills, not even close. He still played in 11 games. And he didn't get "hurt" this season. Nice try. Those 11 games he played certainly impacted Watson's stats. Nice try. I don't need to compare the Texans team to the Bills team. I am comparing the Texans QB to the Bills QB. Josh is a better QB than Watson. I repeat: Josh Allen is a better NFL QB than Deshaun Watson. He's just better, it's not debatable, it's a fact. 32 out of 32 NFL GMs would take Josh over Watson. Heck, there was a report before the AFC ship game that a large chunk of executies think Allen > Mahomes. That shows you how highly executives in the NFL view Allen.
Doc Posted January 28, 2021 Posted January 28, 2021 Watson just wants off a sinking ship. Their fall was entirely predictable, especially in September of 2020 (hmmmm...). Meanwhile BOB's big moves were trading a 2018 1st rounder to move up to take Watson, trading a 2020 1st rounder to get a Pro Bowl LT to protect Watson, and trading Hopkins for a 2nd, which arguably made Watson a better passer.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 28, 2021 Posted January 28, 2021 28 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: The problem is, due to BOB's universe brain moves, they dont have the draft picks to re-build and improve and win UNLESS they trade Watson. How long is this dearth, I've lost track? Just this year? Next 2 years?
Richard Noggin Posted January 28, 2021 Posted January 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, JoshAllenReceipts said: Not really cherrypicking. Total QBR factors in a whole bunch of things. Josh's QBR was 11 points higher. Josh is clearly the better QB. 32 out of 32 NFL GMs would take Allen in a heartbeat. This discussion is silly because I am 100% right and you are 100% wrong. Tone down the self-satisfaction here. You don't KNOW anything you're stating in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th lines of this post. You just don't. I'd like to agree with you, but I'm not 100% certain Allen is superior to Watson yet. Deshaun Watson is effing awesome. 1
JoshAllenReceipts Posted January 28, 2021 Posted January 28, 2021 5 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said: Because he didnt finish the season and he has never finished a season. He is chronically hurt, that is why he was left out. Cant even begin to compare the Texans team to the Bills, not even close. Yep that PROVES your point. You are stating an opinion as fact , i would elaborate but not interested in getting an infraction from a mod, not today maybe another day. 15-4, 82 Total QBR Vs 4-12, 71 Total QBR You have no argument other than a pure hypothetical "Hey, what if these QBs swapped teams?". A hypothetical is not a real argument. Try again. 1 minute ago, Richard Noggin said: Tone down the self-satisfaction here. You don't KNOW anything you're stating in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th lines of this post. You just don't. I'd like to agree with you, but I'm not 100% certain Allen is superior to Watson yet. Deshaun Watson is effing awesome. Yeah, he's 4-12 awesome. 4-12 is just soooo awesome, man! Wow! 2 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said: Tone down the self-satisfaction here. You don't KNOW anything you're stating in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th lines of this post. You just don't. I'd like to agree with you, but I'm not 100% certain Allen is superior to Watson yet. Deshaun Watson is effing awesome. Allen is better. I am 200% certain Allen is better. You're a bit slow to catch on...and that's ok. Not everybody gets it right away. You will. 1
Richard Noggin Posted January 28, 2021 Posted January 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, JoshAllenReceipts said: 15-4, 82 Total QBR Vs 4-12, 71 Total QBR You have no argument other than a pure hypothetical "Hey, what if these QBs swapped teams?". A hypothetical is not a real argument. Try again. Yeah, he's 4-12 awesome. 4-12 is just soooo awesome, man! Wow! Allen is better. I am 200% certain Allen is better. You're a bit slow to catch on...and that's ok. Not everybody gets it right away. You will. Wow. You're a special sort, eh? Dunning-Kruger. Look it up. And have a nice day. Go Bills. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 28, 2021 Posted January 28, 2021 6 minutes ago, JoshAllenReceipts said: Not really cherrypicking. Total QBR factors in a whole bunch of things. Josh's QBR was 11 points higher. We've had the conversation about total QBR on this site before. Bottom line up front: treat it with skepticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_quarterback_rating Quote Total QBR is a complex proprietary statistic that has led to questions on what values are being used and to what degree. The data obtained is from a video analyst tracking system Quote Unlike the NFL passer rating, ESPN has not yet been forthcoming on the exact specific formulas and procedures to calculate QBR.[7] The proprietary, complex methodology spans some 10,000 lines of code. Quote Further criticism of QBR was brought about when, before some tinkering with the equation of QBR, Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Charlie Batch had the greatest individual game ever evaluated by QBR with a score of 99.9 against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers on September 26, 2010. Batch threw for 186 yards with three touchdowns and two interceptions in the game. He also ran five times for 26 yards. Statistics that helped Batch's QBR rise were that he was not sacked, did not fumble, and that he completed 70.6% of his passes, one of which he spiked into the ground to stop the clock Quote Further controversy erupted when the Total QBR system gave the Denver Broncos' Tim Tebow a higher rating than the Green Bay Packers' Aaron Rodgers in their respective Week 5 contests in 2011. Noting that Rodgers completed 26 of 39 passes for 396 yards and two touchdowns in a win over the Atlanta Falcons, while Tebow completed four of 10 passes for 79 yards and a touchdown, and six rushes for 38 yards and a touchdown, in a loss to the San Diego Chargers. In a more recent example, a game played on September 24, 2017, Alex Smith of Kansas City Chiefs received an inexplicable QBR of 7.8, half as much as the equally-bad QBR of 16.1 for his counterpart Philip Rivers of the Los Angeles Chargers, even though Smith had a higher completion rate (16/21 vs. 20/40), a better average per completion (7.8 yds vs. 5.9), a far superior TD/int ratio (2-0 vs. 0-3), and won the game handily 24-10. For myself, I continue to be skeptical of proprietary statistics that require 10,000 lines of code and produce results such as the above
JoshAllenReceipts Posted January 28, 2021 Posted January 28, 2021 "Hey guys, if these QBs swapped teams...." ^^^is not a valid argument. If your entire argument is based on a pure hypothetical...then you have no argument.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 28, 2021 Posted January 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, JoshAllenReceipts said: "Hey guys, if these QBs swapped teams...." ^^^is not a valid argument. If your entire argument is based on a pure hypothetical...then you have no argument. If your entire argument is based on total QBR, I would say the same I suspect everyone here will stop responding to you soon owing to the great depth and quality of the ensuing discussion. 2
JoshAllenReceipts Posted January 28, 2021 Posted January 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Richard Noggin said: Wow. You're a special sort, eh? Dunning-Kruger. Look it up. And have a nice day. Go Bills. Wow, you totally have the support of your franchise QB. Look at you go. Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said: If your entire argument is based on total QBR, I would say the same Option A) 15-4, 82 Total QBR, 46 Total Touchdowns Vs Option B) 4-12, 71 Total QBR, 36 Total Touchdowns Me: A > B You: B > A 1
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