All_Pro_Bills Posted January 28, 2021 Posted January 28, 2021 (edited) 14 hours ago, Arm of Harm said: 1) Defensive coaching. The defensive coaching staff did a good job overall against the Ravens. The same was not true of the playoff games against the Colts or the Chiefs. I understand that Frank Reich and Andy Reid are two of the best offensive minds in the game. But make no mistake: the Bills' defensive coaching staff was beaten like a rented mule in both those games. Reich's 4th down call is a good example of that. That would have been an easy touchdown, had the Colts players executed. They didn't, and turned the ball over on downs. Periodic execution failures by Colts players obscured just how badly the Bills' defensive coaching staff was dominated by Reich and his offensive coaches. The Chiefs didn't have that problem. Of the 7 Chiefs drives which didn't end in kneel downs, 5 resulted in touchdowns, and another went for a field goal. The total dominance of the Chiefs offense over the Bills' defense was alone sufficient to determine the outcome of the game. Defensive coaching might be this team's single greatest weakness. Solution: Above all, this idea of "soft zone" needs to die. The idea of "let them move the chains with the underneath stuff" needs to no longer be tolerated. In place of these things, I'd like to see more defensive gameplans like the one this coaching staff prepared against the Patriots a year or two ago. I'm thinking of the game where Brady and the Patriots offense were totally stymied. The Patriots won that game anyway due to a blocked punt and the total domination of the Patriots defense over the Bills offense. 3) Edmunds. Edmunds had a good game against the Ravens, but did not play well against the Colts or the Chiefs. Great physical tools, but struggles with the mental side of the game. Also I recently read that opposing QBs have a 130 QB rating when targeting Edmunds. People are talking about letting Milano walk in order to have the cap space to re-sign Edmunds, or to allow an OLB position to open up for Edmunds. I don't understand the logic of letting go of a guy who's produced (Milano) in order to keep a guy who hasn't (Edmunds). Edmunds has had three years here for the light to go on. At this point we need to see him for what he produces, not for what his potential is or what his draft status was. Solution: re-sign Milano. Wait until next year to do anything about upgrading Edmunds, because the Bills don't have the picks or cap space to address the problem this year. A couple comments on coaching and Edmunds: Defensive Coaching: All defenses schemes have an objective of forcing the offense into making mistakes. Its a matter of how much pressure or emphasis they have on forcing these errors. Ir might be something like missing a blocking assignment or the QB throwing the ball into some disguised coverage or maybe forcing a lot of turnovers. Another element is defensive players making positive plays, winning their one-on-one battles, outplaying their opponent. The problem with the soft zone scheme is that its almost totally dependent on the offense making mistakes rather than your defensive guys making a play. The idea is I'm going to make you effectively execute 10 to 12 plays in a row without making a mistake and I'm betting you can't do that combined with a low-risk defensive approach that avoids making the big mistakes on defense. Sort of like a low risk, low reward scenario. The problem is no soft zone strategy is going to ever beat an elite offensive executed effectively. That's what the Chiefs did. The Bills defense as set up and with the defensive roster are not capable of playing an aggressive pressure defense. If you want to get more aggressive your going to have to change not only the scheme but also the players. That takes time so I don't expect much to happen here in the short term except trying to plug in some players the coaching staff and front office think are upgrades. But the improvements, if any, will be incremental and not some extreme improvement into next season. My assessment is the Bills are not going to consistently win against a team like the Chiefs that has great talent and great execution unless they alter their base defensive strategy along with targeting players with a different set of skills to match a more aggressive style. At this point its a case of sitting back and letting them pick you apart. Swapping out one or two players on defense isn't going to change that outcome unless the Bills offense upgrades to the point of matching KC point for point and makes it something like a last team to have the ball wins situation. Edmunds: This is a tough one. One problem is the Bills use nickel most of the time as their base defense, 4-2-5. So really there is no MLB in a classic sense under a 4-3-4. I agree with other posters that Edmunds might be a better fit under a 3-4 system. But the Bills aren't going to change their entire defense to accommodate one player. So either Edmunds adapts and becomes proficient at playing in this system or he doesn't. In 3 years he has had his struggles. One other possibility I haven't seen discussed here is to trade him to a needy 3-4 team. Maybe get back a 2nd rounder and use that draft choice elsewhere or to draft a MLB that might be a better fit. I propose this because for some reason the league values his play more than most here as evidenced by his selection to the Pro Bowl. His trade value at this time would seem high. Better to move a player a year early than a year to late when his stock might be a lot lower. The risk is that its highly likely you have to watch him excel in that 3-4 with his new team and you'll look like an idiot for the next 5 to 8 years. The other approach is to give him another year and hope the light goes on. To me that seems unlikely to happen. Maybe the coaching staff needs to use more 4-3 and drop the emphasis on the 4-2-5 nickel which has its own issues. The other thing is what to do with Milano. He's important to the Bills defense but I'm hard pressed to consider him a top LB relative to the other players in the league. Is he even in the top 5 of players at his position? I don't know. But the issue is paying a lot vs. finding a comparable replacement in the short term. The other possibility here is to use the one year franchise tag and give yourself another year to decide what to do longer term. Edited January 28, 2021 by All_Pro_Bills 1
Eastport bills Posted January 28, 2021 Posted January 28, 2021 21 hours ago, dave mcbride said: Jerry Hughes has six sacks in the last four playoff games and 3 in the last 2. I don't think he's the problem. As for Edmunds in coverage, he's kind of set up to fail vis-a-vis passer rating. He plays the short center zone, and if a QB has time, is accurate, and has a good TE to throw to who knows how to adjust his route, the receiver will be open because Edmunds will have guessed already and the receiver can adjust. A better pass rush, and those completions result in 2-3 picks per season. As @MAJBobby has written, Will LB is the easiest position to play and MLB is arguably the hardest. It's tough to compare Milano and Edmunds because of that. Moreover, I think people forget how young Edmunds is. He is literally 22 and has off-the-charts physical talent. Be patient with him. If he doesn't pan out in the next couple of years, sure, cut the cord. In full agreement, Edmunds must continue to bulk up and get better. His ceiling is high. A better d-line would help him immeasurably. Milano is not worth the price,because he also can't overcome limited pass rush and is a bit fragile. 1
ganesh Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 On 1/28/2021 at 5:00 AM, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: The Bills philosophy is we're going to wear you down with our depth and keep rotating solid, but not great players out there. In 2018 and 2019 it worked, this year not nearly as well. It worked in the regular season but not in the playoffs. We have to have the talent to play with the big boys On 1/29/2021 at 1:41 AM, Eastport bills said: In full agreement, Edmunds must continue to bulk up and get better. His ceiling is high. A better d-line would help him immeasurably. Milano is not worth the price,because he also can't overcome limited pass rush and is a bit fragile. Agreed. Unless Milano signs a 1-year prove it deal, I don't see him being re-signed
Rebel101 Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 On 1/27/2021 at 5:25 PM, Arm of Harm said: 1) Defensive coaching. The defensive coaching staff did a good job overall against the Ravens. The same was not true of the playoff games against the Colts or the Chiefs. I understand that Frank Reich and Andy Reid are two of the best offensive minds in the game. But make no mistake: the Bills' defensive coaching staff was beaten like a rented mule in both those games. Reich's 4th down call is a good example of that. That would have been an easy touchdown, had the Colts players executed. They didn't, and turned the ball over on downs. Periodic execution failures by Colts players obscured just how badly the Bills' defensive coaching staff was dominated by Reich and his offensive coaches. The Chiefs didn't have that problem. Of the 7 Chiefs drives which didn't end in kneel downs, 5 resulted in touchdowns, and another went for a field goal. The total dominance of the Chiefs offense over the Bills' defense was alone sufficient to determine the outcome of the game. Defensive coaching might be this team's single greatest weakness. Solution: Above all, this idea of "soft zone" needs to die. The idea of "let them move the chains with the underneath stuff" needs to no longer be tolerated. In place of these things, I'd like to see more defensive gameplans like the one this coaching staff prepared against the Patriots a year or two ago. I'm thinking of the game where Brady and the Patriots offense were totally stymied. The Patriots won that game anyway due to a blocked punt and the total domination of the Patriots defense over the Bills offense. 2) Defensive line. McDermott and Beane have made a considerable investment in the defensive line, in terms of both salary cap space and draft picks. The defensive line was dominated by a (very good) Colts OL, as well as by the Chiefs OL. I get that both Rivers and Mahomes tend to get rid of the ball quickly. But during the course of the regular season the defensive line also failed to justify the very considerable resource investment made in it. Solution: draft a pass rusher. Also sign or draft a 1 tech DT. Any existing DL who isn't contributing to the level of his salary needs to either be cut outright, or else given a massive pay cut. None of Hughes, Addison, or Murphy should make next year what they made this year. The world will keep spinning even if we lose all three. 3) Edmunds. Edmunds had a good game against the Ravens, but did not play well against the Colts or the Chiefs. Great physical tools, but struggles with the mental side of the game. Also I recently read that opposing QBs have a 130 QB rating when targeting Edmunds. People are talking about letting Milano walk in order to have the cap space to re-sign Edmunds, or to allow an OLB position to open up for Edmunds. I don't understand the logic of letting go of a guy who's produced (Milano) in order to keep a guy who hasn't (Edmunds). Edmunds has had three years here for the light to go on. At this point we need to see him for what he produces, not for what his potential is or what his draft status was. Solution: re-sign Milano. Wait until next year to do anything about upgrading Edmunds, because the Bills don't have the picks or cap space to address the problem this year. 4) Offensive line. During the regular season it was normal for the offensive line to do a good job of pass protection, but a bad job of run blocking. On a running play all it takes is one OL to lose his individual battle, and then you have a defender who's not where he's supposed to be. That will often spoil the play. The OL seemingly took its level of play down a notch or two during the playoffs. The run blocking was bad as usual. But the pass protection was often bad as well, especially against the Colts and Chiefs. Solution: Upgrade at least one OG spot. Ideally both. The Bills should not be afraid to use a 2nd or 3rd round pick on an OG. You could easily justify using both those picks on OGs. (And pray that at least one of those picks works out better than Cody Ford!) 5) Running back. To a certain extent I think the Bills' RBs are getting blamed for the offensive line failures. That said, there's also some truth to the argument that the Bills don't have a speed guy at that position, and would benefit from one. However, the Bills do not have the draft picks or salary cap space to make a major investment here. Those picks need to be invested on the offensive and defensive lines. Solution: Christian Wade (rugby guy) has been on the roster two full years now. Surely he has learned the game of football and the Bills' offense. Unless some better option comes along, they should sign him to the regular season roster, and sprinkle him in on returns, trick plays, and occasional running plays. 6) Tight end. With Buffalo's five best WRs all injured for the Chiefs game, it would have been nice to have had a good TE to pick up some of the slack. While Knox has his moments he is not an upper tier TE. Solution: The Bills probably don't have the resources to address this problem this offseason, so they might need to wait a year to deal with this. Ideally Knox improves significantly during that year, and this problem goes away. Agree with all of it. I’d have liked to see Frazier go. His scheme against the Ravens was perfect tho. It did hurt us losing star and we need to cut all that dead FA weight from last year on the DLine. And the entire OL needs reworked as well. We need to be able to get pressure with a 4 man rush. And Edmunds isnt a solution to anything. Milano is key. Edmunds is being named to pro bowls is mind boggling. The only thing he does well is chase after someone who got past him. He’s made a few big stops but someone who has all the physical gifts should be making triple the # of plays he’s making. I don’t remember any picks and hardly any sacks. A pro bowl MLB should have both. Plus he’s not even better then Milano in coverage. I will really look at McBeane sideways if they give more money to Edmunds and don’t sign Milano. ***** I will look at McBeane sideways for not signing Milano. But I’ve already done that. In Beanes press conference he said we’d love to have him back but he has earned the right to see what he can get in FA. Which means they can’t pay him what he is going to make. We should franchise tag him until next year when hopefully the cap goes back up. 1
JerseyBills Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 I only read 2 paragraphs and will read it all, I just had to say , we did a masterful job vs Bal They were the hottest team in the game coming into that game. Averaging 33 ppg. We held em to 3!
Philly McButterpants Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 (edited) Really glad some of you are not in charge of running the team... Christian Wade is the answer? Re: the Defense - I'm not sure why they flip-flop on philosophy. The Ravens game was all about taking away what they do best. Heck, even the first Chiefs game was about that. The AFCCG soft zone was just mind boggling. Tag Milano with the Franchise or Transition tag to keep him a year. Figure out what to do with Edmunds (Brain transplant or cut ties seem to be the only two viable options - face reality: all the potential in the world is NOT going to make him develop good instincts. He's not good), and invest a 2nd rounder in a guy to play opposite Tre. Edited January 30, 2021 by Philly McButterpants
Turf Toejam 34 Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 On 1/28/2021 at 3:11 PM, Eastport bills said: In full agreement, Edmunds must continue to bulk up and get better. His ceiling is high. A better d-line would help him immeasurably. Milano is not worth the price,because he also can't overcome limited pass rush and is a bit fragile. I believe that continuing to predict Edmunds "high ceiling" and pointing to his youthfulness doesn't hold water. This was his third year in the system. If the light bulb isn't going on by now, when will it? By using a high pick for MLB, it is obvious that they are looking for a player with many of the capabilities of a Luke Kuechly---a player that in the third year in McDermott's defense had 153 total tackles, 3 sacks, 12 passes defended, 1 interception, and 1 forced fumble. More bulk isn't going to solve what is going on inside his head. The TE reception stats for 2020 were atrocious, and right now there's nothing on the horizon to make it any better.
Eastport bills Posted January 30, 2021 Posted January 30, 2021 5 hours ago, Turf Toejam 34 said: I believe that continuing to predict Edmunds "high ceiling" and pointing to his youthfulness doesn't hold water. This was his third year in the system. If the light bulb isn't going on by now, when will it? By using a high pick for MLB, it is obvious that they are looking for a player with many of the capabilities of a Luke Kuechly---a player that in the third year in McDermott's defense had 153 total tackles, 3 sacks, 12 passes defended, 1 interception, and 1 forced fumble. More bulk isn't going to solve what is going on inside his head. The TE reception stats for 2020 were atrocious, and right now there's nothing on the horizon to make it any better. Still can't give up on a guy,22, on rookie contract, who averages well over 100 tackles a season. MLB on a team that goes to AFC championship, must have had many good games. His speed and wingspan are impressive. Maybe it's the coaching. Frazier and co. , we're the problem against KC.
Turf Toejam 34 Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 7 hours ago, Eastport bills said: Still can't give up on a guy,22, on rookie contract, who averages well over 100 tackles a season. MLB on a team that goes to AFC championship, must have had many good games. His speed and wingspan are impressive. Maybe it's the coaching. Frazier and co. , we're the problem against KC. Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane. I am sure that Frazier didn't view Kelce as a threat.....he's not understanding the job.
GunnerBill Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 What needs to "die" is the constant references to "soft zone" as being a problem without any analysis of how often the Bills are actually in soft zone (which we won't get because most who parrot that phrase don't understand what it means) and what their results are vs other types of coverage.
Mango Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) On 1/27/2021 at 6:27 PM, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Duke Williams enters chat... Could you imagine how unstoppable this offense would be with Gibran Hamden slinging the rock to dudes like Da’Rick and Duke. Throw Christian Wade in the backfield, can you you say super bowl? Beane, asleep at the wheel again... Edited January 31, 2021 by Mango 1
Arm of Harm Posted January 31, 2021 Author Posted January 31, 2021 11 hours ago, GunnerBill said: What needs to "die" is the constant references to "soft zone" as being a problem without any analysis of how often the Bills are actually in soft zone (which we won't get because most who parrot that phrase don't understand what it means) and what their results are vs other types of coverage. Well then, perhaps you'd like to provide some of that analysis?
Nextmanup Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 On 1/28/2021 at 7:54 AM, BillsFanSD said: You lost me at the Christian Wade part. The Christian Wade part was a very minor point in the context of the whole, but everyone keeps harping on about it. I guess it's supposed to be funny? 1
LABILLBACKER Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 Edmunds will never thrive unless we turn him outside. Problem is that's impossible with this 4-2-5. He'll never have the Kuechly instincts of a true MLB. And the youth card doesn't fly anymore. Tremaine's fate will be determined by what we do with Milano?
Dukestreetking Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 On 1/27/2021 at 8:09 PM, Richard Noggin said: Plus he {Edmunds} could probably still put on 10-15 LBs and be a scary specimen. I'm obviously cherry-picking from many well-argued, even rich-dense comments. Some I agree, some I'm not so sure about. But this: definitely.
SoCal Deek Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 16 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said: Edmunds will never thrive unless we turn him outside. Problem is that's impossible with this 4-2-5. He'll never have the Kuechly instincts of a true MLB. And the youth card doesn't fly anymore. Tremaine's fate will be determined by what we do with Milano? Agreed! I just got the stomach to rewatch the tape of the KC game. Edmunds was literally LOST out there. It was like we were playing down a man. You can’t just run around taking up space and then pile on the play after the catch has been made. Mahomes played him like a fiddle. Edmunds simply cannot play the middle!
PrimeTime101 Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 On 1/27/2021 at 5:25 PM, Arm of Harm said: 1) Defensive coaching. The defensive coaching staff did a good job overall against the Ravens. The same was not true of the playoff games against the Colts or the Chiefs. I understand that Frank Reich and Andy Reid are two of the best offensive minds in the game. But make no mistake: the Bills' defensive coaching staff was beaten like a rented mule in both those games. Reich's 4th down call is a good example of that. That would have been an easy touchdown, had the Colts players executed. They didn't, and turned the ball over on downs. Periodic execution failures by Colts players obscured just how badly the Bills' defensive coaching staff was dominated by Reich and his offensive coaches. The Chiefs didn't have that problem. Of the 7 Chiefs drives which didn't end in kneel downs, 5 resulted in touchdowns, and another went for a field goal. The total dominance of the Chiefs offense over the Bills' defense was alone sufficient to determine the outcome of the game. Defensive coaching might be this team's single greatest weakness. Solution: Above all, this idea of "soft zone" needs to die. The idea of "let them move the chains with the underneath stuff" needs to no longer be tolerated. In place of these things, I'd like to see more defensive gameplans like the one this coaching staff prepared against the Patriots a year or two ago. I'm thinking of the game where Brady and the Patriots offense were totally stymied. The Patriots won that game anyway due to a blocked punt and the total domination of the Patriots defense over the Bills offense. 2) Defensive line. McDermott and Beane have made a considerable investment in the defensive line, in terms of both salary cap space and draft picks. The defensive line was dominated by a (very good) Colts OL, as well as by the Chiefs OL. I get that both Rivers and Mahomes tend to get rid of the ball quickly. But during the course of the regular season the defensive line also failed to justify the very considerable resource investment made in it. Solution: draft a pass rusher. Also sign or draft a 1 tech DT. Any existing DL who isn't contributing to the level of his salary needs to either be cut outright, or else given a massive pay cut. None of Hughes, Addison, or Murphy should make next year what they made this year. The world will keep spinning even if we lose all three. 3) Edmunds. Edmunds had a good game against the Ravens, but did not play well against the Colts or the Chiefs. Great physical tools, but struggles with the mental side of the game. Also I recently read that opposing QBs have a 130 QB rating when targeting Edmunds. People are talking about letting Milano walk in order to have the cap space to re-sign Edmunds, or to allow an OLB position to open up for Edmunds. I don't understand the logic of letting go of a guy who's produced (Milano) in order to keep a guy who hasn't (Edmunds). Edmunds has had three years here for the light to go on. At this point we need to see him for what he produces, not for what his potential is or what his draft status was. Solution: re-sign Milano. Wait until next year to do anything about upgrading Edmunds, because the Bills don't have the picks or cap space to address the problem this year. 4) Offensive line. During the regular season it was normal for the offensive line to do a good job of pass protection, but a bad job of run blocking. On a running play all it takes is one OL to lose his individual battle, and then you have a defender who's not where he's supposed to be. That will often spoil the play. The OL seemingly took its level of play down a notch or two during the playoffs. The run blocking was bad as usual. But the pass protection was often bad as well, especially against the Colts and Chiefs. Solution: Upgrade at least one OG spot. Ideally both. The Bills should not be afraid to use a 2nd or 3rd round pick on an OG. You could easily justify using both those picks on OGs. (And pray that at least one of those picks works out better than Cody Ford!) 5) Running back. To a certain extent I think the Bills' RBs are getting blamed for the offensive line failures. That said, there's also some truth to the argument that the Bills don't have a speed guy at that position, and would benefit from one. However, the Bills do not have the draft picks or salary cap space to make a major investment here. Those picks need to be invested on the offensive and defensive lines. Solution: Christian Wade (rugby guy) has been on the roster two full years now. Surely he has learned the game of football and the Bills' offense. Unless some better option comes along, they should sign him to the regular season roster, and sprinkle him in on returns, trick plays, and occasional running plays. 6) Tight end. With Buffalo's five best WRs all injured for the Chiefs game, it would have been nice to have had a good TE to pick up some of the slack. While Knox has his moments he is not an upper tier TE. Solution: The Bills probably don't have the resources to address this problem this offseason, so they might need to wait a year to deal with this. Ideally Knox improves significantly during that year, and this problem goes away. well well.. where to start... I know... Your solutions I bolded one at a time... D'Line our DE's produced better in years but that is because of the failure at the DT position.. We need a big one tech DT as you said and as double teams are more drawn to the interior of the line, the DE's will be able to be more versatile. We are over paying to many DT that produce little to nothing and thats the issue. LBS ya need to get over this idea that we are moving Edmunds... Milano is going to test the market and will be long gone. When failure starts at the D'Line, dare I say this phrase... there is a trickle down effect that hurts the rest of the defense.. starts on the line.. Line makes LBS look bad and so on. RB's Wade? really? the guy is 29 years old I think 30 by the time next season starts and you think Wade is the answer? no... lol to much wrong and not enough right about this post... sorry
Dukestreetking Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 6 minutes ago, HOUSE said: This was brutal..... I nearly always agree w your comments and/or p**s my pants at your impeccable comedic content & timing. But, in this case...you gotta give @Arm of Harm credit for precisely laying out a problem followed directly by her/his proposed solution. Unusual here. Even if you don't agree....well done, imv. Hell, reads exactly like a go/no-go mission brief. Makes me feel like blasting "Let the Bodies Hit the Floor" (h/t @chknwing334) fr a thread far, far away. (Maybe you were speaking of thread more generally??) 2
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