ghostwriter Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 Just now, balln said: lol he was THE CHOSEN one for this Defense by this GM. he just sucks. there are certain downs and distances and situations where he supposed to attack and he still sucks I think our DL sucks. We need a dominant pass rusher, heck, we could use two dominant pass rushers. Edmunds is beaming with potential, some of it we may never see, but his problems are all mental. The scheme we are running absolutely does not help. These guys are stationary targets. I think Edmunds and Milano could be sufficient if they were allowed to attack more. I think allowing these guys to play downhill is a lot more of a powerful mentality to have then telling them to play 5 yards off the ball. Coaching is a major issue.
KOKBILLS Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said: I'll take your word for it. I know there were a few posters who were banging that DK drum. Especially because, like vegans and crossfit people, they never shut up about it. 🤣 Now THAT was funny!!! 😂 1
Ethan in Cleveland Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 21 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: Can you point to a single game-altering play he made in 2020? He's a zone/cover linebacker. Any interceptions? Any tipped balls that led to others' interceptions? How about a blown up screen pass at a critical moment, any of those? Did he shut down a single tight end? (No, the Bills were at the bottom of the league in covering tight ends in 2020.) He was playing injured, sure. Since then he's gone from bad to serviceable. It's great that he makes the defensive calls but they're sacrificing a lot of playmaking to have a guy who can make the calls. Agreed. Not a single impact play all year. Bend but don't break defenses need to create the occasional negative play. Edmunds made none. 1
balln Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: No he isn't. He rarely gets blown off the ball. For his lack of ideal size he actually holds up in the run game ok. He gets the double team most of the time. Nobody is doubling Phillips or Zimmer. I did not want to draft him and thought it was a bad decision. But that doesn't color my evaluation of him. He's just average and for a top ten pick that is a disappointment. stats and film dont bear that out. he may not get blown off the ball. but hes easy to block. he just gets sealed off/turned in that case agree w 2nd sentence its just true of sports - when you have high picks you need to hit. need a cameron heyward or tj watt player. did hit on josh allen and thats most improtant but cody ford, ed oliver, aj, edmunds, singletary, moss have been poor high end picks 4 minutes ago, Victory Formation said: I think our DL sucks. We need a dominant pass rusher, heck, we could use two dominant pass rushers. Edmunds is beaming with potential, some of it we may never see, but his problems are all mental. The scheme we are running absolutely does not help. These guys are stationary targets. I think Edmunds and Milano could be sufficient if they were allowed to attack more. I think allowing these guys to play downhill is a lot more of a powerful mentality to have then telling them to play 5 yards off the ball. Coaching is a major issue. thats not the defense we run though. again - when its time to defend the run they are told to go to their gap/shed and make the tackle. they dont do that/ edmunds especially they were specifically picked to play this soft zone D crap that McD wants to play 1
ghostwriter Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 4 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: Agreed. Not a single impact play all year. Bend but don't break defenses need to create the occasional negative play. Edmunds made none. You know, I’ve never been the biggest Edmunds guy, but should we single him out when virtually every player on defense has been struggling? At what point should the coaches take accountability? 5 minutes ago, balln said: thats not the defense we run though. again - when its time to defend the run they are told to go to their gap/shed and make the tackle. they dont do that/ edmunds especially they were specifically picked to play this soft zone D crap that McD wants to play The scheme isn’t working. The mentality behind it sucks. Not aggressive enough, not allowing our players to be violent. 1
CNYfan Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 44 minutes ago, Sharky7337 said: I dont agree with this at all. Everytime Edmunds blitzes he gets absorbed. He's terrible at rushing the passer. He had 2 sacks and 4 tackles for loss total. I dont mean to be rude but I just don't understand how you got to him rushing the passer he's terrible at it. Everytime he blitzes we basically give them one less person to worry about. I do not like to be negative, but how many plays has the guy made in 3 years? Is he ever in the backfield? Can we count his interceptions on one hand? I am not an expert but he seems like just another guy, not a high paid second contract type. 1 2
OrtonHearsaWho Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 I think the jury is still out on both players but in Edmunds case I think a lot of you are answering based on yesterday's game and I'm not sure that's very fair. If linebackers are going to be judged by whether they can cover Kelce then I think pretty much all LB would suck. 1
GreggTX Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 (edited) We shouldn't have wasted 1st round picks on them. If the draft were held again today, they'd both still be there on day 2. They are pretty average starters. If it were up to me, I'd be working a trade for whatever I could get for them. When Edmunds is targetted by QB's, he gives up a 129-130 passer rating. That's an MVP rating. Oliver, in the regular season had 3 sacks, 6 TFL and 1 FF. Not very impressive for 1st rounders, especially Oliver who was picked at #9. I'm not sure we'd be able to get much in return and Beane's only really good pick in rounds 1 and 2 has been Allen. Edited January 25, 2021 by GreggTX
JohnNord Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 3 hours ago, Reader said: In the past few weeks I have seen the gamut of "these guys are busts" to "they have been out of position" to "they (mainly Oliver) are on the verge of breaking out". What are your assessment of these two, maybe, core players to build around? I feel by the end of the 3rd season you should have a good idea whether your draft picks fit into the team’s future. Last year, we weren’t 100% certain on Josh. I remember thinking that by the end of year 3, we had to know whether Josh was the franchise QB. If we weren’t sure, chances are he is not. The same can’t be said about Edmunds. He’s had a few nice plays but has struggled for most of the year. We don’t know if the issue is his DL or if he’s just not cut out of be a MLB in a 4-3. To me, he’s in Shaq Lawson territory but the difference is the same administration drafted him. My impression is that Edmunds is not good enough. Not physical enough in the run game and not a enough of a difference maker versus the pass. The Bills really need to take a close look at him. Oliver has flashed more than Edmunds IMO. He also has 1 less year. By the end of next year we should know where we stand with Oliver. 1
Jauronimo Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Jeff1954 said: I keep reading that Buffalo has the most expensive D line in the NFL. That is a big problem because the line has not played near that level. Beane, being really smart, has structured a lot of the FA contracts so Buffalo can walk away from them before next season. This also will be a big help with the reduced salary cap. At this stage, we certainly keep Oliver. I have read a number of people on this board suggest we try him at DE. Why not, especially if there is a preseason next year? There is a huge difference between what the fans on this board and elsewhere see with Edmunds and what McD and his fellow players say about him. No answers from me but it will be difficult to keep him and Milano and by any measure, Milano has looked the more valuable player. Because that is a terrible idea and the people who keep proposing that idea are just throwing @#$% against the wall to see if it sticks. 1 1
GreggTX Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 14 minutes ago, OrtonHearsaWho said: I think the jury is still out on both players but in Edmunds case I think a lot of you are answering based on yesterday's game and I'm not sure that's very fair. If linebackers are going to be judged by whether they can cover Kelce then I think pretty much all LB would suck. No. It is based on 3 years of underperforming. 1
Jauronimo Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 54 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: Can you point to a single game-altering play he made in 2020? He's a zone/cover linebacker. Any interceptions? Any tipped balls that led to others' interceptions? How about a blown up screen pass at a critical moment, any of those? Did he shut down a single tight end? (No, the Bills were at the bottom of the league in covering tight ends in 2020.) He was playing injured, sure. Since then he's gone from bad to serviceable. It's great that he makes the defensive calls but they're sacrificing a lot of playmaking to have a guy who can make the calls. That goal line stand against San Fran was pretty nice.
Coach Tuesday Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 (edited) 57 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: I thought he played extremely well vs. Baltimore and was basically pretty effective from the SF game onward. My view of him is that he's still very young -- 22 years old, for God's sake! -- and physically very talented. Fans have to be patient with players. Let them develop. I am in no way saying he was anything close to elite this year, but factor in his age and experience when making assessments. One thing I've become focused on is the importance of coaching up rare, elite physical talent. It can take time, but the payoff can be huge. I just feel like a guy that size who runs a 4.54 40 is someone you shouldn't make a final judgment on, especially since he's just 22. I have no problem being patient and actually developing young players which is a marked change from the Ralph years. But there’s a limit. Not saying we’re there yet but it’s soon. Usually with young players you at least see flashes of greatness - they’ll make “wow” plays out of athleticism and instinct alone. Haven’t seen many of those with Tre. He’s got the athleticism. I don’t think he has the instincts. His brother is the same way in Pittsburgh by the way - they, too, have been mystified by the lack of flash plays out of their Edmunds. Edited January 25, 2021 by Coach Tuesday 1
KOKBILLS Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 34 minutes ago, OrtonHearsaWho said: I think the jury is still out on both players but in Edmunds case I think a lot of you are answering based on yesterday's game and I'm not sure that's very fair. If linebackers are going to be judged by whether they can cover Kelce then I think pretty much all LB would suck. I can't speak for anyone else here, but I watched Edmunds constantly...even a bit obsessively all year. Heck going back to his Rookie Season...Most of the criticisms of him are valid. But I think it's more about him playing out-of-position than anything. I think he's always had too much on his plate and would be better served on the outside where his responsibilities are more limited, and he does not have to make 1000 reads on every play. Plus he'll have to take on less direct blocks from monsters who engulf him...I think there is a role for him to excel in almost any Defense. I do not think that role is at MLB for this team, and this scheme...But who knows? That scheme might change a lot in 2021. So we'll see...😎 1
dave mcbride Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 44 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: I have no problem being patient and actually developing young players which is a marked change from the Ralph years. But there’s a limit. Not saying we’re there yet but it’s soon. Usually with young players you at least see flashes of greatness - they’ll make “wow” plays out of athleticism and instinct alone. Haven’t seen many of those with Tre. He’s got the athleticism. I don’t think he has the instincts. His brother is the same way in Pittsburgh by the way - they, too, have been mystified by the lack of flash plays out of their Edmunds. Agreed, but I'd pick up the option and give him two more years. If he isn't going to pan out, you'll know by then.
KOKBILLS Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 46 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: He’s got the athleticism. I don’t think he has the instincts. His brother is the same way in Pittsburgh by the way - they, too, have been mystified by the lack of flash plays out of their Edmunds. Bingo! 😎
Big Blitz Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 4 hours ago, TheFunPolice said: Oliver is the reason I love big, sloppy DTs with a mean streak. You cannot coach or teach God-given massive bulk. Oliver is a high effort guy but he is just plain too small. This.
billsfan714 Posted January 26, 2021 Posted January 26, 2021 1 hour ago, KOKBILLS said: Bingo! 😎 I agree with all the posters who mention his lack of instincts. Its amazing how often he actually moves away from the hole the run is going through. And with all that speed it doesnt show up in pass coverage. I would not be overpaying him when his contract is up. 1
John from Riverside Posted January 26, 2021 Posted January 26, 2021 7 hours ago, Brennan Huff said: Oliver is completely invisible on the field Only if you have no idea how defensive line works 1
Nextmanup Posted January 26, 2021 Posted January 26, 2021 7 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said: Move Edmunds to OLB already. He has so much physical potential he would be a commanding trade bait if we so chose. Oliver needs a big stud DT to play by his side so he can utilize his speed better. He had his moments. Edmunds has demonstrated quite clearly that his football is IQ is close to zero. I'd rather move on from him entirely than stick him out on the outside. At a certain point "potential" is only worth so much. Maybe we can con someone into giving us something of quality in a trade. Beane's a clever guy. 4 hours ago, OrtonHearsaWho said: I think the jury is still out on both players but in Edmunds case I think a lot of you are answering based on yesterday's game and I'm not sure that's very fair. If linebackers are going to be judged by whether they can cover Kelce then I think pretty much all LB would suck. Disagree on that; Edmunds has a large set of data to draw upon now. Anyone forming an opinion on anyone after a single game isn't doing a very good job evaluating.
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