BADOLBILZ Posted February 3, 2021 Posted February 3, 2021 32 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Did you actually rewatch that play yourself? Just curious, because there are features that don't match the above. When Morse got hit, he held the block and eventually widened so that the back in fact got through that hole - small hole and good job getting through it to convert. Then Morse got hit from the side at the end of the play, staggered back, and went to a knee. *shrug*. I re-listened to Wood's "chopping Wood" segment on that game and didn't find the above; I might have more comment if you can point me to where it was made, but in honesty, not likely. All I can tell you is that was Woods' explanation. He said he had been jarred similarly by the very same play many times against the Patriots. Do you not think that Morse is protecting his head from violent collisions now? Simple fact about pass blocking versus run blocking........pass blocking is about balance and keeping your head up. Run blocking inline requires leaning your body weight into the defender........which you can't do effectively with your head up. IMO Morse is broken. Wish I was wrong. He was a favorite of mine going into the draft.......I thought he was going to be a real late round steal at right tackle. KC did him a disservice moving him inside, in retrospect, IMO.
TheBeaneBandit Posted February 3, 2021 Posted February 3, 2021 2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: All I can tell you is that was Woods' explanation. He said he had been jarred similarly by the very same play many times against the Patriots. Do you not think that Morse is protecting his head from violent collisions now? Simple fact about pass blocking versus run blocking........pass blocking is about balance and keeping your head up. Run blocking inline requires leaning your body weight into the defender........which you can't do effectively with your head up. IMO Morse is broken. Wish I was wrong. He was a favorite of mine going into the draft.......I thought he was going to be a real late round steal at right tackle. KC did him a disservice moving him inside, in retrospect, IMO. You know, I have wondered if Morse put on 10-15 lbs that a move to RT could prolong his career.....and save money that would go to Williams. Dawkins, Ford, Feliciano, draft pick/FA, Morse......hmmmmmm.
BADOLBILZ Posted February 3, 2021 Posted February 3, 2021 3 hours ago, TheBeaneBandit said: You know, I have wondered if Morse put on 10-15 lbs that a move to RT could prolong his career.....and save money that would go to Williams. Dawkins, Ford, Feliciano, draft pick/FA, Morse......hmmmmmm. I thought it was worth a look putting him at tackle when they first got him and he was already in concussion protocol before even playing a preseason game. But at this point I think the damage is probably done. At RT he has a better chance of defending himself but as susceptible as he seems to be now there are still going to be collisions violent enough to knock him out of the lineup. 1
TheBeaneBandit Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 25 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: I thought it was worth a look putting him at tackle when they first got him and he was already in concussion protocol before even playing a preseason game. But at this point I think the damage is probably done. At RT he has a better chance of defending himself but as susceptible as he seems to be now there are still going to be collisions violent enough to knock him out of the lineup. If he decided to retire would that free up a full 10M? Not tryin to sound cold, but things are tight right now money wise😬
BADOLBILZ Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 31 minutes ago, TheBeaneBandit said: If he decided to retire would that free up a full 10M? Not tryin to sound cold, but things are tight right now money wise😬 They could save his $7M base salary and might be able to pursue re-imbursement for his remaining unamortized bonus money of around $5.5M if he chose to retire. Not going to happen though. No way his agent let's him just retire with a "healthy" designation and give back money. If he decides to call it quits they would just end up releasing him and take the hit and save $5M total. 1 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 23 hours ago, Warcodered said: So I've been working my way through this and now I'm all hella depressed. Now I have to give Turner and crew the benefit of the doubt that the plays they selected are representative of the whole, and not cherry-picked But Woof. Interesting graphic I cut out of it. (All run plays called plays to RBs only) Gap vs Zone runs, 2019 Gap: 156 run plays Zone: 110 run plays Gap vs Zone runs, 2020. Gap: 62 run plays Zone: 181 run plays. 23 fewer run plays in 2020 than 2019, or 1.4 plays per game, but 242 less rush yards (excluding Allen's yards) What I got out of it: -We stopped gap runs because we just couldn't execute them this season -Very seldom had all 3 phases of run game clicking at once. If OL blocked well, TE missed block. If OL and TE blocked well, RB misread and chose wrong hole. -Williams was NOT the solid blocker in the run game I had thought him to be, and run plays that I had initially blamed another OLman for blew up because he whiffed. -When he played, Ford's run blocking was at times clueless, and at other times simply ineffective. If Ford is the answer to the run blocking at guard, What the Hell is the question? -TE blocking from Knox was very inconsistent. He did block well at times, but too many others just totally Linda Ronstadt (HEY KNOX! YER GUY JUST BLUE BAYOU!) Ay yi yi.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: All I can tell you is that was Woods' explanation. He said he had been jarred similarly by the very same play many times against the Patriots. I don't want to quibble about one play. It was a run out of shotgun, which by that point of the season were overwhelmingly pass plays, but 3rd and 1 or 2, which were almost as overwhelmingly run plays. I thought it was more a delayed safety blitz. The defender was S Adrian Phillips IIRC, not a LB. Morse's posture to me didn't suggest he was trying to get out in space, but rather push the guy to the side and create a hole (which he did, albeit a small one, and Motor got through it to convert). The fact is Morse held the block and moved his man. Then at the end of the play he seemed to get whacked in the side of the head and immediately staggered back and went to a knee. But other interpretations are certainly possible. Quote Do you not think that Morse is protecting his head from violent collisions now? Simple fact about pass blocking versus run blocking........pass blocking is about balance and keeping your head up. Run blocking inline requires leaning your body weight into the defender........which you can't do effectively with your head up. IMO Morse is broken. Wish I was wrong. He was a favorite of mine going into the draft.......I thought he was going to be a real late round steal at right tackle. KC did him a disservice moving him inside, in retrospect, IMO. TBH, @BADOLBILZ, you may be right, but I can't see it. After watching Cover1's summation of the run game I've been working my way through the season of run plays and there are so many other blocking problems that I'm not even noticing Morse, he's so far down the list. We weren't using him to pull as we did last year, but as I extracted from their piece, by about the 2nd week of the season gap runs had practically disappeared from our run game vocabulary and again, Morse was way down the list of problems. When I did see him overall he seemed to be Doing His Job. You mention "career decisions" in some of your posts and I think I see a bunch of those taking place all over the line at times, as in "Oh, my man beat me like a drum and I could cut block him or get in his way but I'll just make a half-assed grab at his jersey and send him on his way". It's very disheartening. It must have been horribly depressing to be an RB on our team this past year. Which is not to absolve the RBs either as at times when they had holes, they read wrong.
BADOLBILZ Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 26 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I don't want to quibble about one play. It was a run out of shotgun, which by that point of the season were overwhelmingly pass plays, but 3rd and 1 or 2, which were almost as overwhelmingly run plays. I thought it was more a delayed safety blitz. The defender was S Adrian Phillips IIRC, not a LB. Morse's posture to me didn't suggest he was trying to get out in space, but rather push the guy to the side and create a hole (which he did, albeit a small one, and Motor got through it to convert). The fact is Morse held the block and moved his man. Then at the end of the play he seemed to get whacked in the side of the head and immediately staggered back and went to a knee. But other interpretations are certainly possible. TBH, @BADOLBILZ, you may be right, but I can't see it. After watching Cover1's summation of the run game I've been working my way through the season of run plays and there are so many other blocking problems that I'm not even noticing Morse, he's so far down the list. We weren't using him to pull as we did last year, but as I extracted from their piece, by about the 2nd week of the season gap runs had practically disappeared from our run game vocabulary and again, Morse was way down the list of problems. When I did see him overall he seemed to be Doing His Job. You mention "career decisions" in some of your posts and I think I see a bunch of those taking place all over the line at times, as in "Oh, my man beat me like a drum and I could cut block him or get in his way but I'll just make a half-assed grab at his jersey and send him on his way". It's very disheartening. It must have been horribly depressing to be an RB on our team this past year. Which is not to absolve the RBs either as at times when they had holes, they read wrong. As you might say.......I will trust the expert opinion over yours. (IMO Wood is the best Bills analyst) Yep it must have sucked to be a running back behind that blocking. By seasons end they weren't giving 100% on every play.........why would they? They are human beings they aren't going to run full speed into the hole over and over knowing that it's just going to end in an untouched defender getting a free run at a violent collision for little gain. I can remember a specific run play against Miami early in the finale where Moss had what should have been an easy 12-15 yard gain but he was stopped after 8. I was exasperated watching that sh*t but it wasn't a lack of ability on his part.......the tentativeness was self preservation. It became 'trust but verify" out there for the RB's and he who hesitates.....
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said: As you might say.......I will trust the expert opinion over yours. (IMO Wood is the best Bills analyst) Where did Wood say that or analyze that play? Just curious. It's not in the "Chopping Wood" segment. You're wise to trust Wood's take over mine, but doesn't that run contrary to your own self-expressed philosophy of trusting your eyes over everyone else? What do your eyes tell you? I've been looking and actually, no, I don't agree with you that Morse is broken and protecting his head in run blocking. Looking at some later in season games (SF, Denver, San Diego) From what I see, he's doing his job and even on plays where I thought he whiffed, it was often on picking up what should have been someone else's assignment. Mostly when I see him he seems to be doing his assigned job. He could hold some of his blocks a bit longer but he shouldn't have to. Feliciano had some real stinker whiffed blocks on run plays and so did Boettger. Just ugly. If Feliciano is thought to be our answer for run blocking at C or G (I don't recall if this is a view you've expressed, sorry) then I want to know what the ***** was the question.
Solomon Grundy Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: So I've been working my way through this and now I'm all hella depressed. Now I have to give Turner and crew the benefit of the doubt that the plays they selected are representative of the whole, and not cherry-picked But Woof. Interesting graphic I cut out of it. (All run plays called plays to RBs only) Gap vs Zone runs, 2019 Gap: 156 run plays Zone: 110 run plays Gap vs Zone runs, 2020. Gap: 62 run plays Zone: 181 run plays. 23 fewer run plays in 2020 than 2019, or 1.4 plays per game, but 242 less rush yards (excluding Allen's yards) What I got out of it: -We stopped gap runs because we just couldn't execute them this season -Very seldom had all 3 phases of run game clicking at once. If OL blocked well, TE missed block. If OL and TE blocked well, RB misread and chose wrong hole. -Williams was NOT the solid blocker in the run game I had thought him to be, and run plays that I had initially blamed another OLman for blew up because he whiffed. -When he played, Ford's run blocking was at times clueless, and at other times simply ineffective. If Ford is the answer to the run blocking at guard, What the Hell is the question? -TE blocking from Knox was very inconsistent. He did block well at times, but too many others just totally Linda Ronstadt (HEY KNOX! YER GUY JUST BLUE BAYOU!) Ay yi yi. When I saw you referenced a Linda Ronstadt song, I was sure you were going to pick “Your no good”
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 28 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said: When I saw you referenced a Linda Ronstadt song, I was sure you were going to pick “Your no good” Actually, the frustrating thing about Knox is that song doesn't apply to him. It's not that he's no good. He'll nail his block and make the tough catch on one down then drop the catchable ball or whiff on the block the next.
Buffalo716 Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 11 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: All I can tell you is that was Woods' explanation. He said he had been jarred similarly by the very same play many times against the Patriots. Do you not think that Morse is protecting his head from violent collisions now? Simple fact about pass blocking versus run blocking........pass blocking is about balance and keeping your head up. Run blocking inline requires leaning your body weight into the defender........which you can't do effectively with your head up. IMO Morse is broken. Wish I was wrong. He was a favorite of mine going into the draft.......I thought he was going to be a real late round steal at right tackle. KC did him a disservice moving him inside, in retrospect, IMO. How could you be a late round steal in the second round? With his size and combine performance he was not making it out of the top three. It's not like he was overdrafted he's just had unfortunate circumstances. When he's healthy he's a very agile , Stout pass blocking center
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 9 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: How could you be a late round steal in the second round? With his size and combine performance he was not making it out of the top three. It's not like he was overdrafted he's just had unfortunate circumstances. When he's healthy he's a very agile , Stout pass blocking center @Buffalo716, I suspect I know the answer, but have you had a chance to watch any film of the Bills run game this season? I suspect you're all up in draft prep but would love your POV if you have. My take on the Bills rush blocking OL after watching the Cover1 piece then starting back through the games is: -Williams was often not so good in run blocking, and faults that I originally laid on Morse or the RG actually belong to him -Feliciano was a lot worse in run blocking than I thought, especially the gap run game we ran last year and which seems to be Daboll's preference. Maybe the injuries played a role and limited his conditioning/footwork. Stunts killed him. -Morse was "doing his job" in run blocking most of the time. That job did not require him to shove the nose tackle 3 feet back. -Ford was not a good run blocker at guard when he played. Again maybe injuries played a role, if his lower body injured feet didn't put in him the right position for arm leverage? But I wasn't encouraged to hope for him as a run-game guard solution -Knox is far too hit-or-miss to be relied upon in the run blocking game at present. -Singletary played at times as though he just had his head locked down and no vision. Moss also.
BADOLBILZ Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 11 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: How could you be a late round steal in the second round? With his size and combine performance he was not making it out of the top three. It's not like he was overdrafted he's just had unfortunate circumstances. When he's healthy he's a very agile , Stout pass blocking center Because he wasn't being mocked as day one or even a day two pick until the draftniks actually got their late draft season info from the actual team scouts. And c'mon.......don't tell me about measurables making it impossible for a player not to be drafted early..........there are obviously a TON of examples of that not being the case. Not sure what circumstances were unfortunate..........drafted to a good team.........given a starting job..........signed to a record contract for a center............the only unfortunate thing IMO is being stationed at center when he should have been a tackle.
RichRiderBills Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) Felciano is going to be the kind of guy hit hard this year. He didnt have the best year, but he is versatile and could likely come back for cheap, given salary cap concerns league wide. The Chiefs game was not a full spectrum view of his season. Id try to bring him back on a bargain cap friendly deal. Edited February 4, 2021 by RichRiderBills
WideNine Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 18 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: So I've been working my way through this and now I'm all hella depressed. Now I have to give Turner and crew the benefit of the doubt that the plays they selected are representative of the whole, and not cherry-picked But Woof. Interesting graphic I cut out of it. (All run plays called plays to RBs only) Gap vs Zone runs, 2019 Gap: 156 run plays Zone: 110 run plays Gap vs Zone runs, 2020. Gap: 62 run plays Zone: 181 run plays. 23 fewer run plays in 2020 than 2019, or 1.4 plays per game, but 242 less rush yards (excluding Allen's yards) What I got out of it: -We stopped gap runs because we just couldn't execute them this season -Very seldom had all 3 phases of run game clicking at once. If OL blocked well, TE missed block. If OL and TE blocked well, RB misread and chose wrong hole. -Williams was NOT the solid blocker in the run game I had thought him to be, and run plays that I had initially blamed another OLman for blew up because he whiffed. -When he played, Ford's run blocking was at times clueless, and at other times simply ineffective. If Ford is the answer to the run blocking at guard, What the Hell is the question? -TE blocking from Knox was very inconsistent. He did block well at times, but too many others just totally Linda Ronstadt (HEY KNOX! YER GUY JUST BLUE BAYOU!) Ay yi yi. To me it looks like almost all our gap runs were to the strong side of the formation. Abandoned running up the middle as we did not have the guard to guard ability to pull that off, but I think more draw plays would have had some success. Their gap runs right focus is the theoretical way you would run strong side with 11 personnel. Using your TE to give you that extra blocker. Knox is nowhere near where he needs to be as a blocker though. Queue the Yoda voice: And that is why you fail...
Buffalo716 Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: Because he wasn't being mocked as day one or even a day two pick until the draftniks actually got their late draft season info from the actual team scouts. And c'mon.......don't tell me about measurables making it impossible for a player not to be drafted early..........there are obviously a TON of examples of that not being the case. Not sure what circumstances were unfortunate..........drafted to a good team.........given a starting job..........signed to a record contract for a center............the only unfortunate thing IMO is being stationed at center when he should have been a tackle. Well pundits are pundits because they're not scouts And you see closer to draft day that they have tons of evaluations that are way off the mark, and they're only corrected when they actually got their info from scouts who are in the trenches
Buffalo716 Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: @Buffalo716, I suspect I know the answer, but have you had a chance to watch any film of the Bills run game this season? I suspect you're all up in draft prep but would love your POV if you have. My take on the Bills rush blocking OL after watching the Cover1 piece then starting back through the games is: -Williams was often not so good in run blocking, and faults that I originally laid on Morse or the RG actually belong to him -Feliciano was a lot worse in run blocking than I thought, especially the gap run game we ran last year and which seems to be Daboll's preference. Maybe the injuries played a role and limited his conditioning/footwork. Stunts killed him. -Morse was "doing his job" in run blocking most of the time. That job did not require him to shove the nose tackle 3 feet back. -Ford was not a good run blocker at guard when he played. Again maybe injuries played a role, if his lower body injured feet didn't put in him the right position for arm leverage? But I wasn't encouraged to hope for him as a run-game guard solution -Knox is far too hit-or-miss to be relied upon in the run blocking game at present. -Singletary played at times as though he just had his head locked down and no vision. Moss also. Throughout the season when I'm rewatching games I try to watch all position groups and jot down some notes But Line play is such a cohesive unit that it really does deserve a full dive by itself , especially since we used a few combinations Ford and Williams absolutely were below average run blockers, usually generating no push.. Morse is at his best when he's allowed to move to the second level I will dive into it a little further, but we have a line full of finesse pass blockers right now basically
Recommended Posts