What are your ideas to fix the Bills' running game for next year?

[WideNine]

37 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

The only problem I see is McD and Daboll are not committed to the running game.

 

Sure, a little more speed & size would help .................................WITH BLOCKING FOR JOSH ALLEN

 

Buffalo is the only team in the league that has a "Keep the Defense honest running game"

 

 

.

 

Commitment is part of it, but our success rate when we do run is well below league average.

 

That is why we cannot keep defenses "honest". The coaches and Beane see it on film.

 

It's not just one thing, but if they can address the most glaring issues they can work on the missed assignments, etc...

 

 

[SirAndrew]

We don’t have any backs who are playmakers. That still doesn’t account for the fact they consistently get hit behind the line of scrimmage. Fans are quick to point at the backs, but this line needs upgraded. Williams and Dawkins are the only guys I’m willing to commit to. I see all this talk about drafting a speedy back, but he’s not getting anywhere if we don’t upgrade the line. It’s the most overrated part of this team. They simply aren’t good. 

[Augie]

19 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

We don’t have any backs who are playmakers. That still doesn’t account for the fact they consistently get hit behind the line of scrimmage. Fans are quick to point at the backs, but this line needs upgraded. Williams and Dawkins are the only guys I’m willing to commit to. I see all this talk about drafting a speedy back, but he’s not getting anywhere if we don’t upgrade the line. It’s the most overrated part of this team. They simply aren’t good. 

 

I don’t claim to “break down film”, but I like Feliciano mostly because when the running back gets stood up, he flies in and moves the pile 2-3 yards. I like that nasty streak and he’s the guy who shows it the most. Maybe putting him at center replacing a “finesse and technique” guy like Morse changes the tone? Hope Ford or someone else can fill in at guard.  Hey, change 2 spots and that’s a 40% overhaul!

 

I agree we need a speed threat at RB, but put behind a first class line and ALL these guys look a LOT better! Look at teams like Denver years ago or SF. Every guy they stick back there looks like an All Pro! It’s not the RB each time, it’s more the line and the scheme. 

 

Regardless of how they go about it, it’s one of the most important tasks for next year, and they acknowledged that. I expect them to try to transform the run game the way they did the WR position. 

 

 

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Edited January 29, 2021 by Augie

[Solomon Grundy]

Draft David Moore from Grambling and put him at center

[Golden]

Najee Harris &

    rework the interior of our O line, however my best guess is that he is plenty gone before our pick. 

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, Golden said:

Najee Harris &

    rework the interior of our O line, however my best guess is that he is plenty gone before our pick. 

I'm afraid he will be gone by 30 but if he's there and we don't grab him then that sends a huge message to the offense that it's passing fellas.....95%.....

[chaccof]

I guess the Thermonator is out of the question?  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 hours ago, WideNine said:

We are also well-scouted and I do see teams cheating towards run on plays where we run, so something in our personnel, alignment, or the leverage of our player pre-snap stances may be giving those runs away too often.

 

When we run 70% of the time that Josh is under center, that's kind of a giant tell right there.

I'm sure there are other tendences (down, distance, field position) that add in

[Buffalo Barbarian]

On 1/28/2021 at 3:38 AM, machine gun kelly said:

 

BB, you know that’s a demotion bud from O Coordinator for Baltimore.  Good to hear from you though.  Haven’t seen you around much lately.

 

I was being facetious about Roman.

 

Yeah i got switched to day shift and didn't have the time to get on the boards like i used to. We were actually supposed to go back to second next week but the order got cancelled at the last minute, we had to tell all the guys they recalled not to come back, thanks Obiden !!

 

Hopefully in couple years when the "green works" gets approved i can get back to second.

 

 

 

[Nihilarian]

If you watch the video all-22 on the runs on page 4 in this thread you would see why the Bills struggle with the run game.

 

The old saying "practice makes perfect" is so very true here. Packers HC Mike Holmgren used to make the players run the same play over and over until they perfected it. No mistakes, no screw ups and they would need to run it several times perfectly before he was happy. 

 

Its clear that the Bills simply don't put enough emphasis on the run game to make it work properly. There is also the point that RB's usually play better the more they run, 15-20 carries and this usually wears out a defense chasing them down. 

 

Running the ball should be the easier for an O linemen as they know which way they are going and get to put all their weight into a surge. In pass blocking they are on their heals in a defensive position hopefully getting into proper position to hold long enough to allow the pass to be thrown. 

 

Primary concern should be in upgrading the Buffalo offensive line, JMO

[MrEpsYtown]

I have said this before but the biggest issue to me is the scheme. This team is full of power based road grading offensive linemen. (Aside from Mitch Morse). You see so much zone, but they should be running pin and pull and gap plays. The backs are one cut power backs as well. The scheme doesn’t match the personnel imo. They even have a massive blocking tight end for no reason. Beane even mentioned how much they pulled Morse on pin and pull in 2019 and how they got away from that this year. I wonder why that is. Daboll needs to go back to the drawing board and re-work the running game.  

 

I know it’s boring, but find a real fullback like a Kyle Juszcyk or if you want to go cheap Michael Burton and get back to a power running game. Or actually use Gilliam. 

[machine gun kelly]

I was thinking the same on a fullback.  It’s a boring underappreciated asset, but when we had a younger healthier DiMarco, we ran better.  I know he retired, so I’m not saying him.  We should find a good one as it will help, amd dump Smith.  Just because he’s a blocking TE, that doesn’t help up the middle.  Some say that’s Gilliam, but I didn’t see him used in this manner.

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

If you watch the video all-22 on the runs on page 4 in this thread you would see why the Bills struggle with the run game.

 

The old saying "practice makes perfect" is so very true here. Packers HC Mike Holmgren used to make the players run the same play over and over until they perfected it. No mistakes, no screw ups and they would need to run it several times perfectly before he was happy. 

 

Its clear that the Bills simply don't put enough emphasis on the run game to make it work properly. There is also the point that RB's usually play better the more they run, 15-20 carries and this usually wears out a defense chasing them down. 

 

Running the ball should be the easier for an O linemen as they know which way they are going and get to put all their weight into a surge. In pass blocking they are on their heals in a defensive position hopefully getting into proper position to hold long enough to allow the pass to be thrown. 

 

Primary concern should be in upgrading the Buffalo offensive line, JMO

 

 

Agreed, commitment, in time and in spirit, to the run game, is an undervalued necessity.

 

With that said, IMO they need better performance from the line, especially at guard, and Morse has been underperforming his usual standard and needs to start playing again like himself, or he'll be elsewhere, and soon.

 

I'm hopeful that some of that improvement comes from a healthy Ford having an offseason and playing like he's in his third year even though he's only had 22 games.

Edited January 30, 2021 by Thurman#1

[freddyjj]

On 1/25/2021 at 7:40 PM, Solomon Grundy said:

Although Thurman was an exceptional talent, he ran behind a talented line as well. Hull, Ritcher and Davis were very good to great. You later add in the “pit bull” Frerotte to take over for Ritcher and you have a wall for years to come that produced HOFers

Ritcher started for all the years he was here.  Frerotte started 3 games as a Bills OL in his 4 years here.  

[Nihilarian]

3 hours ago, freddyjj said:

Ritcher started for all the years he was here.  Frerotte started 3 games as a Bills OL in his 4 years here.  

Actually, Ritcher was a first round draft pick by Buffalo in 1980 by HC Chuck Knox (who was an O linemen in college himself) sat for a few seasons behind LG Reggie McKenzie who was part of the "Electric Co" for OJ. 

 

How good was that line when your first round pick doesn't start? 

 

McKenzie played 11 seasons for Buffalo and Ritcher 15 seasons. The Bills had Ruben Brown and recently Richie Incognito who were also all pro's at LG. 

 

The Bills need to find some of those types for the line. 

[T master]

Najee Harris ...

[Simon Says]

I often saw the backs right in Josh's face,causing hurried, awkward handoffs.Could have been a late-developing option  but many exchanges could have been smoother.  Singletary and Allen practically colliding ,getting in each other's way and Singletary getting stuffed. Would like to see the backs get out quicker, on pitches.

[billsfan_34]

On 1/25/2021 at 12:51 PM, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

3 new interior O-Lineman, New RB and the running game coordinator from the 49ers. That should improve our running game dramatically. Moss is the only keeper on our current depth chart.

 

 

 

Many times this year cracks/holes were there. Devin doesnt hit the hole quick enough and has minimal abilities at the second level due to lack of top end speed and size to drag a few LBs etc. 

22 minutes ago, T master said:

Najee Harris ...

He wont be there for us in the 2nd. We would have to move up.

[Steve Billieve]

I honestly don't understand why we even need a running game when Allen automatically challenges defenses with his legs. I say we keep only pass pro linemen.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

20 hours ago, WideNine said:

Commitment is part of it, but our success rate when we do run is well below league average.

That is why we cannot keep defenses "honest". The coaches and Beane see it on film.

It's not just one thing, but if they can address the most glaring issues they can work on the missed assignments, etc...

 

Question: how exactly is success rate defined, and where does one find league stats on this?

 

As far as the Bills running game is concerned, don't you find it a bit of a conundrum? 

 

Yes, overall, our running game is below league average.  4.2 ypa is #19 in the league.

 

But let's look deeper.  We have 1723 rush yards on 411 attempts, 4.2 ypa. 

 

1) Taking out Josh Allen's contributions, we have 1310 rush yards on 296 attempts - dead last in the league for both, I'm pretty sure even subtracting other QB contributions (bottom 10 rushing teams don't have rushing QBs).  So at least part of our problem is, sheer volume.  We ran extremely infrequently.

 

That begs the question: Why?

 

2) When we do take out Josh's contributions, we find that our other backs combined for 1310 yds on 296 attempts, or slightly above league average at 4.43 YPA. 

 

3) When we look at our YPG (including Josh), we are below league average at 104 ypg.  Yet we have 6 games where we were well above league average of 119 ypg, and in 3 of them we were above the average YPG of the 5-top rushing teams.  Clearly at times, when we decided to make it a focus, we could run well.  And these games were scattered throughout the season and involved different lines: Dawkins-Boettger-Feliciano-Winter-Williams; Dawkins-Feliciano-Morse-Winters-Williams; Dawkins-Boettger-Morse-Feliciano-Williams.  

 

4) our overall run statistics were certainly impacted by Daboll's team-specific game plans.  There are games when he decided "we're going to pass until you prove you can stop it".  There are games when he decided "we're going to run until you prove you can stop it".  And there are "the rest". "the rest" were below average: remove 3 best, 3 worst, average drops from 104 to 100 ypg.

 

5) Ave YPG in first 6 games of the regular season: 95.  Ave YPG in games 8-17: 117

 

What to make of this?

1) When we focused on it, we could run well against average or below average run D (Broncos and Pats below ave, Chargers ave)

2) We could not run worth crap against the best DLs or run Ds.  Film analysis that's out there says a lot of this is blocking and the run got stuffed in the backfield

3) Some of the difference is the changing composition of the OL during the season:

 a) We did not have a good run game with Ford at guard. Weeks 1-6 with Ford: 95 ypg.  Correlation is not causation, but film analysis he's seen letting the DL off his block, badly at times.  If Beane thinks Ford is a starter at guard AND he wants to improve the run game, either Ford must improve greatly or he's "pushing a rock uphill".

 b) I think Feliciano made a difference, but the games which included him, also included games where we didn't run at all.  Data don't support

4) to Point 2), part of the run being stuffed in the backfield may be on run play "tells" that allow the DL to key off of it (a lot are crude tells like whether we're under center or not 70% run, I expect there are a bunch more)

 

FWIW