My reasons for the loss.

[ALLEN1QB]

KC really got a break playing us. Tennessee,  Baltimore,  Pittsburgh would of played them tougher. The Browns did a lot better the week before.  I was really hoping that we would come in with a better game plan than the first meeting to me it looks exactly the same. Other teams make their defense look like swiss cheese.

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

not necessarily. Steelers could never really beat the pats. They got their Super Bowls because other teams knocked the pats off in the playoffs.

 

That said, I get your point about wanting to improve to beat the chiefs— but we still can be successful and even win some Super Bowls if we can’t solve them. 
 

At the rate that Mahomes and his cast is playing, no team in the league will beat them. They are going to steamroll the Bucs. 

Really.  We need to beat the best to be the best. We aren’t trying to be the Eagles title  winning team catching lightning in a bottle and fizzling. This team is being built for long term sustained success like the chiefs. We aren’t there yet.  Continue to improve and take care of of business ourselves.  If we are trying to win SBs based on Mahomes getting injured and other teams beating them, we won’t win many super bowls

[Mr. WEO]

48 minutes ago, NewEra said:

1-  Coaching:  Reid dominated Frazier.  Again.  Chiefs best play makers running wide open all game.  Spags dominated Daboll.  Again. Spags disguises his coverages flawlessly. Our WRs we blanketed all game.  They have better play callers on both sides of the ball.  Mcdermott made some bad decisions.  He trusted his defense more than he trusted his offense.  That was his biggest mistake. His choice to go for two on our last TD was beyond confusing. Down 16 was the way to go at that point in the game.  Made no sense to go for it then. I can’t recall a play where we lined up 6-7 guys on the LOS and made Mahomes decipher who’s rushing.  Spags did it every 2-3 plays.  Mahomes is great vs the blitz.  So is Josh.  That didn’t stop the chiefs from bringing the heat all game.  It certainly stopped us.  Probably because we can’t run the ball worth a dam. 
 

2-  Cbris Jones-  he’s a complete game wrecker and the 2nd best defensive player in the league imo.  Frank Clark is a beast as well.  The afc will be going through KC for the foreseeable future.  We have to find a way to limited Jones’ effectiveness vs us going forward.  Meanwhile.....our DL was stifled by 2 7th rd picks and 2 undrafted free agents on their OL.  Mahomes was a magician in the pocket. As always.  Going almost untouched behind his OL made up of nobodies.  Spags > Josh yesterday.  
 

3-  Our inability to run the ball efficiently.  I said months ago that it would be our downfall in the playoffs if we couldn’t find a way to balance our offense a bit more.  It was.  I like the person, but I hope that was Singletarys last game as a Bill.  His drop was monumental.  A game changjng play. 
That can’t happen.  WIDE OPEN.  Again.  
We need to make the proper adjustments along the OL, scheme and in personnel this offseason.  Retooling our run game is paramount.  If that means that our pass protection takes slight  hit, so be it. We’re too one dimensional.  Period. 
 

4-  Edmunds-  Spags picked on him in coverage all game.  Every team should.  For all the physical talent he possesses, he doesn’t process fast enough.  It’s been 3 years.  How many more years will it take him to catch on. He’s always a step behind. He shouldn’t be playing MLB if we want to win the Super Bowl.  We can hide his deficiencies over the course of the season, but when we play the elite of the elite, I don’t feel as if he can survive being picked on. We thought we had two of the best coverage LBers in the league.  We have maybe the best safety duo in the league..... yet Kelce was WIDE OPEN all game.      Edmunds is only good in coverage because of his height and length.  He lacks instincts vs the run and the pass.  I don’t expect us to move on from him.  I hear we should shift him to the outside.....how will that help him in coverage?  Idk.  He’s a good player but the only goal at this point is winning the super bowl.  Winning the SB, we’re going to have to beat KC....and Kelce.  Kelce is Edmunds daddy.  
 

This offseason-  

 

-i doubt it happens now, but I’d love for Frazier to become the HC in Houston.  Great guy and he’d be a loss, but 2 3rd round draft picks and the opportunity to add a new way of thinking to our D room would be refreshing imo.  

 

-I hope we look deeper into this matchup vs KC and find a way to defend and attack them better.  Their weakness in D is stopping the run.  They want to play nickel and dime and we don’t have the ability to force them out of it.  They defended our pass without regard to our run game.  Our run game crippled our best asset, our pass game.  Wether we like it or not, KC is our daddy.  We have to find a way to matchup better in terms of talent, scheme and mindset. Chris Jones will continue to dominate Feliciano.  I love Jon.  I just don’t think he’s physically able to do the job vs Jones.  
 

-John Brown will be cut, and that’s fine.  Maybe we’ll come back at a reduced salary? Idk, but 8 mill is too rich imo.

 

- D. Williams or Milano.  I doubt we keep both unless they take less than market value to stay.  Whichever one leaves, finding their replacement will be paramount.  Two very important positions, especially Milano considering the defense that we employ. 

- Levi/ Norman-  maybe this was the game where we realized that we need another really quality corner to beat the chiefs?  Tyreek was wide open on ever play.  Again.... WIDE OPEN.  We rarely had a defender close to him.  Is that the scheme? Partly. Wallace and Norman aren’t fast enough to even pretend they can cover a talent like hill....and he’s not going anywhere. We’ll see him in en route to the Super Bowl every year.  Along with Kelce right next to him.  We need better matchups vs those two. 
 

- as mentioned earlier-  fix the run game.  Don’t ask me how.  Just fix it. We can’t continue to be this one dimensional if we want to beat this team, let alone win a super bowl. 
 

-  side note- sucks that Spags will probably be the Chiefs DC for the next 5+ years.  He’s really good at his job. Meanwhile....teams are contemplating Leslie Frazier as their HC, while Spags dominated in KC, winning Super Bowls.  The irony.

 

great season guys and gals.  I’m proud of our boys.  I’m proud of our season.  I’m proud of our fans.  I’m proud of the fight our men showed.  While it looked like we melted down emotionally in the end, I love the fire and the passion.  It was immature and I understand why others would look down on the personal fouls, I’m not a fan of the Okafor cheap shot prior and Josh let him know by throwing the ball in his face.  His protectors then protected their leader.  As they should.  I love the fight that showed.  This rivalry is real.  It’s intense. It’s not going to change. If we want the results to change, we need to change.  Not a whole lot, we’re really good.  We could’ve won with proper coaching decisions and some executed plays.  We didn’t.....but we will.  I Billieve!! 
 

 

 

 

 

Good post.  Hill was covered by White often and he was giving him 5-10 yards and still couldn't catch him.  

 

To fix the run game, you would need to fix Daboll.  He doesn't seem to care to have a plan to get his RBs involved.  You don't need a Henry, or Zeke, or H-E to have a decent run game.  

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

42 minutes ago, NewEra said:

1-  Coaching:  Reid dominated Frazier.  Again.  Chiefs best play makers running wide open all game.  Spags dominated Daboll.  Again. Spags disguises his coverages flawlessly. Our WRs we blanketed all game.  They have better play callers on both sides of the ball.  Mcdermott made some bad decisions.  He trusted his defense more than he trusted his offense.  That was his biggest mistake. His choice to go for two on our last TD was beyond confusing. Down 16 was the way to go at that point in the game.  Made no sense to go for it then. I can’t recall a play where we lined up 6-7 guys on the LOS and made Mahomes decipher who’s rushing.  Spags did it every 2-3 plays.  Mahomes is great vs the blitz.  So is Josh.  That didn’t stop the chiefs from bringing the heat all game.  It certainly stopped us.  Probably because we can’t run the ball worth a dam. 
 

2-  Cbris Jones-  he’s a complete game wrecker and the 2nd best defensive player in the league imo.  Frank Clark is a beast as well.  The afc will be going through KC for the foreseeable future.  We have to find a way to limited Jones’ effectiveness vs us going forward.  Meanwhile.....our DL was stifled by 2 7th rd picks and 2 undrafted free agents on their OL.  Mahomes was a magician in the pocket. As always.  Going almost untouched behind his OL made up of nobodies.  Spags > Josh yesterday.  
 

3-  Our inability to run the ball efficiently.  I said months ago that it would be our downfall in the playoffs if we couldn’t find a way to balance our offense a bit more.  It was.  I like the person, but I hope that was Singletarys last game as a Bill.  His drop was monumental.  A game changjng play. 
That can’t happen.  WIDE OPEN.  Again.  
We need to make the proper adjustments along the OL, scheme and in personnel this offseason.  Retooling our run game is paramount.  If that means that our pass protection takes slight  hit, so be it. We’re too one dimensional.  Period. 
 

4-  Edmunds-  Spags picked on him in coverage all game.  Every team should.  For all the physical talent he possesses, he doesn’t process fast enough.  It’s been 3 years.  How many more years will it take him to catch on. He’s always a step behind. He shouldn’t be playing MLB if we want to win the Super Bowl.  We can hide his deficiencies over the course of the season, but when we play the elite of the elite, I don’t feel as if he can survive being picked on. We thought we had two of the best coverage LBers in the league.  We have maybe the best safety duo in the league..... yet Kelce was WIDE OPEN all game.      Edmunds is only good in coverage because of his height and length.  He lacks instincts vs the run and the pass.  I don’t expect us to move on from him.  I hear we should shift him to the outside.....how will that help him in coverage?  Idk.  He’s a good player but the only goal at this point is winning the super bowl.  Winning the SB, we’re going to have to beat KC....and Kelce.  Kelce is Edmunds daddy.  
 

This offseason-  

 

-i doubt it happens now, but I’d love for Frazier to become the HC in Houston.  Great guy and he’d be a loss, but 2 3rd round draft picks and the opportunity to add a new way of thinking to our D room would be refreshing imo.  

 

-I hope we look deeper into this matchup vs KC and find a way to defend and attack them better.  Their weakness in D is stopping the run.  They want to play nickel and dime and we don’t have the ability to force them out of it.  They defended our pass without regard to our run game.  Our run game crippled our best asset, our pass game.  Wether we like it or not, KC is our daddy.  We have to find a way to matchup better in terms of talent, scheme and mindset. Chris Jones will continue to dominate Feliciano.  I love Jon.  I just don’t think he’s physically able to do the job vs Jones.  
 

-John Brown will be cut, and that’s fine.  Maybe we’ll come back at a reduced salary? Idk, but 8 mill is too rich imo.

 

- D. Williams or Milano.  I doubt we keep both unless they take less than market value to stay.  Whichever one leaves, finding their replacement will be paramount.  Two very important positions, especially Milano considering the defense that we employ. 

- Levi/ Norman-  maybe this was the game where we realized that we need another really quality corner to beat the chiefs?  Tyreek was wide open on ever play.  Again.... WIDE OPEN.  We rarely had a defender close to him.  Is that the scheme? Partly. Wallace and Norman aren’t fast enough to even pretend they can cover a talent like hill....and he’s not going anywhere. We’ll see him in en route to the Super Bowl every year.  Along with Kelce right next to him.  We need better matchups vs those two. 
 

- as mentioned earlier-  fix the run game.  Don’t ask me how.  Just fix it. We can’t continue to be this one dimensional if we want to beat this team, let alone win a super bowl. 
 

-  side note- sucks that Spags will probably be the Chiefs DC for the next 5+ years.  He’s really good at his job. Meanwhile....teams are contemplating Leslie Frazier as their HC, while Spags dominated in KC, winning Super Bowls.  The irony.

 

great season guys and gals.  I’m proud of our boys.  I’m proud of our season.  I’m proud of our fans.  I’m proud of the fight our men showed.  While it looked like we melted down emotionally in the end, I love the fire and the passion.  It was immature and I understand why others would look down on the personal fouls, I’m not a fan of the Okafor cheap shot prior and Josh let him know by throwing the ball in his face.  His protectors then protected their leader.  As they should.  I love the fight that showed.  This rivalry is real.  It’s intense. It’s not going to change. If we want the results to change, we need to change.  Not a whole lot, we’re really good.  We could’ve won with proper coaching decisions and some executed plays.  We didn’t.....but we will.  I Billieve!! 
 

 

 

 

I really don't understand why going for 2 was the wrong move.  At that point the Bills needed to score three TD's and on two of them they needed to convert a two point conversion, so what difference does it make if you were to get the two on the first two TD's or the last two?  You can make the argument going for two on the first ones makes more sense as then you know where you stand going forward whether you'll need two or three more scores.  If you wait until the last one and don't make it, may not be enough time to do anything else.

 

Agreed, the running game was an issue all season.  Singletery certainly dropped off alot.  Was it him or the run blocking?  You wonder at how well the passing game was, did they even spend enough practice time on the run game?  Need big improvement there.

 

Think drafting 30th they should look for a CB there as agree they need a legit #2 guy and likely could still find a guy that low who could step in as a rookie as opposed to drafting some other position.

 

Agree completly with cutting Brown unless he were to come back in the $3 mil range.

 

Agree too it is kind of ironic about the def coordinators.  Going into this game I felt that the next coach of the Texans would be who ever lost this game between Frazier and Beimeny.  I do question the logic though of either as how much of the defense is really Frazier or McD pulling many of the strings himself, same in KC with Beimeny as Reid likely is pulling many of the strings.  In that respect would think a better choice would be Daboll or Spags or even a guy like a Wink Martindale.

[BrooklynBills]

I think I agree with alot of these points.

 

As good as the year was, I think the roster has alot of holes still and they kind of played a bit ahead of schedule IMO.  I think, barring a lucky break in somehow getting CLE in the AFC title game(because I think we could have beaten them), losing to the Chiefs here is about the proper ceiling for this team.

 

I'm not a great strategy/XsOs guy, but it definitely seems like Edmunds gets picked on alot.  I'll be interested to see what the David and White look like against KC and it might give us a glimpse into what we need at the position.  I think the Bills play nickel so much (which is fine) that the 2 off ball LBs have somewhat interchangeable roles.  I like MIlano but it almost feels like Edmunds could do alot of the things that Milano can and the answer might be finding another LBer that is comfortable playing in space in the middle of the field.

 

TEs were a problem all year and I think that has a lot to do with having a size/speed answer with the 3rd LBer/nickel CB.  For years in CAR, they utilized Thomas Davis as a hybrid LB/S and we just don't have that player.  I think this a big need defensively and the Bills know it based on their interest in Kyle Dugger in last years draft.

 

DL needs a physical stud at DT.  I like Oliver but he is an undersized player and I think we saw what a guy who can really push the pocket can do for the defense in what Jones just did to our OL in this past game.

 

We seem to really have solid guys all across the defense but no truly elite players who can tilt the game and I think in big games those players prove to be pretty important.

 

As far as Spagnolo, he had a really rough go of it in one stint as a HC and the league might just view him as a great DC at this point.

Edited January 25, 2021 by BrooklynBills

[Bermuda Triangle]

8 minutes ago, NewEra said:

They’ve been doing this all season.  This has been the best season I can remember in reference to the officials. 
 

jones should have been thrown out....but they didn’t see it/turned their heads to it.  It was a mistake in their part. The refs weren’t the reason we lost

not the reason we lost, but the refs, once again, were woefully inconsistent and turned a blind eye to a play that was worthy of an ejection.

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Good post.  Hill was covered by White often and he was giving him 5-10 yards and still couldn't catch him.  

 

To fix the run game, you would need to fix Daboll.  He doesn't seem to care to have a plan to get his RBs involved.  You don't need a Henry, or Zeke, or H-E to have a decent run game.  

Agreed.  I think Daboll will change. All the talk has been about buffalo being so one dimensional.  I would bet that is one of the reasons he didn’t get a HC offer.  They can’t be oblivious to the fact that our lack of a running game allows defenses to pin their ears back at attack.   McD has changed a lot over the years.  I expect him to ask the same of Daboll in 2021.  We MUST improve our run game if we want to get over the hump imo

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, NewEra said:

Agreed.  I think Daboll will change. All the talk has been about buffalo being so one dimensional.  I would bet that is one of the reasons he didn’t get a HC offer.  They can’t be oblivious to the fact that our lack of a running game allows defenses to pin their ears back at attack.   McD has changed a lot over the years.  I expect him to ask the same of Daboll in 2021.  We MUST improve our run game if we want to get over the hump imo

 

He won't change.  His failure to run the ball to protect a double digit lead in last year's WC loss should have been his wakeup call.  But he was too enamored of Josh's inane talent as well as Diggs.  

 

Josh carried Daboll this year.  This could not be more evident than in yesterday's game.  The Bill's O-line was shameful, and Josh alone was keeping them in that game.  He was under constant attack and Daboll had nothing to help him.  

[BrooklynBills]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

Agreed.  I think Daboll will change. All the talk has been about buffalo being so one dimensional.  I would bet that is one of the reasons he didn’t get a HC offer.  They can’t be oblivious to the fact that our lack of a running game allows defenses to pin their ears back at attack.   McD has changed a lot over the years.  I expect him to ask the same of Daboll in 2021.  We MUST improve our run game if we want to get over the hump imo

 

Daboll would have been hired by the Chargers if he wanted the job.  Heard through the grapevine(Buffalo is really a small town/everybody knows somebody), that he did not like the overall organization/ownership commitment(makes some sense - the Spanos family is pretty much like the Brown family in CIN or like Ralph was and it wouldn't be the first time that the Chargers ownership was seen as an issue).

 

I think they just knew at this point that they don't have the guys (OL/RBs) to really count on that part of the offense.  Interior OL needs a overhaul IMO. No true FB which I think is key to the running game that Daboll has used.

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

not the reason we lost, but the refs, once again, were woefully inconsistent and turned a blind eye to a play that was worthy of an ejection.

I don’t think they were inconsistent.  They didn’t call much on either teams. During our emotional outburst at the end, they called everything properly as well.  Less flags the better imo. If the officials continue to call games like this, players should be trying to take advantage of it and get away with as much as possible.
 

The Bucs do with very well on d. Lots of grabbing and holding that doesn’t get called.  The refs in that game, were inconsistent. They didn’t call the hold on Bunting when he made his interception, yet they called the shirt grab on GB to end the game.  It was a penalty, but it’s got to be consistent. 

[BearNorth]

8 minutes ago, BrooklynBills said:

DL needs a physical stud at DT.  I like Oliver but he is an undersized player and I think we saw what a guy who can really push the pocket can do for the defense in what Jones just did to our OL in this past game.

 

 

Have we given up on Star?  He is the epitome of a space eater.

[Buffalo Junction]

26 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Allen's facemark was grasped last night, he was slapped in the head by a blitzing DB while in the pocket...no call on either.

 

The Jones punch...no call.

 

Defensive holding/illegal contact....called once all game.

Why have rules if they are selectively enforced and not consistently applied?

I’m not going to gripe on the refs, and I like officials allowing guys to play. That said, not calling player safety penalties leads to things like that skirmish at the end of the game. 
 

Let’s hope the new found bad blood inspires guys to work harder in the off-season and play with more attitude next season.

[BrooklynBills]

Just now, BearNorth said:

Have we given up on Star?  He is the epitome of a space eater.

 

I'm talking less of a space eater type and more of a guy who can get a consistent push up the middle in the passing game.  Physical freak type athlete/can win one on ones consistently.

 

Star is more of NT at this point in his career

[Bermuda Triangle]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

I don’t think they were inconsistent.  They didn’t call much on either teams. During our emotional outburst at the end, they called everything properly as well.  Less flags the better imo. If the officials continue to call games like this, players should be trying to take advantage of it and get away with as much as possible.
 

The Bucs do with very well on d. Lots of grabbing and holding that doesn’t get called.  The refs in that game, were inconsistent. They didn’t call the hold on Bunting when he made his interception, yet they called the shirt grab on GB to end the game.  It was a penalty, but it’s got to be consistent. 

exactly my point.  Inconsistent.

 

What is their threshold on calling defensive holding?  It was called once on each team throughout the game...clearly, their threshold is not rooted in the rule book.  Should each team just play man-to-man and just hold the opposing receivers?  Seems to be the way to go...depending on the mood of the refs.

[stevewin]

49 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I blame the browns.

 

if they had lost to the Steelers, then I think the ravens beat KC. They match up much better with them. Or the browns could have beat Henne when they had the chance. Either way, the browns are to blame. 

Yeah part way through the game I told my son - man I really wish the Browns hadn't choked last week

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

He won't change.  His failure to run the ball to protect a double digit lead in last year's WC loss should have been his wakeup call.  But he was too enamored of Josh's inane talent as well as Diggs.  

 

Josh carried Daboll this year.  This could not be more evident than in yesterday's game.  The Bill's O-line was shameful, and Josh alone was keeping them in that game.  He was under constant attack and Daboll had nothing to help him.  

We’ll see if Daboll changes.  I think McD will enforce a change in philosophy.  I fully expect us to be a predominantly passing offense, but some changes in personnel and philosophy will help our run game help our offense become more balanced. 
 

we beat the ravens because all we had to do was take away one aspect of their O to stop them entirely. Many of our wins this year were against teams that were 1 dimensional.  The teams that gave our D fits, were the teams that were multiple on O. 
 

based on the evolution of our team as a whole since McD took over,  I expect us to have a change in mindset and slight change in philosophy on O

8 minutes ago, BrooklynBills said:

 

Daboll would have been hired by the Chargers if he wanted the job.  Heard through the grapevine(Buffalo is really a small town/everybody knows somebody), that he did not like the overall organization/ownership commitment(makes some sense - the Spanos family is pretty much like the Brown family in CIN or like Ralph was and it wouldn't be the first time that the Chargers ownership was seen as an issue).

 

I think they just knew at this point that they don't have the guys (OL/RBs) to really count on that part of the offense.  Interior OL needs a overhaul IMO. No true FB which I think is key to the running game that Daboll has used.

You could be right.  You could be full of it. I won’t know either way until it hits the media. I won’t speculate on it, but just go by what I know.  That he’s not a HC

 

 

i agree, our OL can’t run block and our RBs are dime a dozen talents.  The mindset of a successful running game is built in training camp. Hopefully we can improve on the run game dramatically next year

[BillsfaninChicago]

It is my fault! I was at the game and just didn’t reach the right buzz level drinking. Lousy 13 dollar Bud Lights....

[NewEra]

7 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

exactly my point.  Inconsistent.

 

What is their threshold on calling defensive holding?  It was called once on each team throughout the game...clearly, their threshold is not rooted in the rule book.  Should each team just play man-to-man and just hold the opposing receivers?  Seems to be the way to go...depending on the mood of the refs.

The refs in the bills game......were different than the refs in the Bucs game.  Each team is different and will likely always be different.

 

im glad that their threshold isn’t rooted in the rule book.  Penalties could and would be called on every play. That’s a terribke

product imo.  I’d much rather they only call the obvious penalties that impact the play

[Bermuda Triangle]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

The refs in the bills game......were different than the refs in the Bucs game.  Each team is different and will likely always be different.

 

im glad that their threshold isn’t rooted in the rule book.  Penalties could and would be called on every play. That’s a terribke

product imo.  I’d much rather they only call the obvious penalties that impact the play

I'd rather watch teams play a clean game, and let talent prevail.  it's pretty clear that KC's game plan was to hold the WRs and bump them >5 yards past the LOS.  Kudos to them - it worked, and all it cost them was 1 defensive holding penalty and a stern talking to by the refs to Spagnuolo.  

 

Pushing guys over piles after the whistle was a beyotch move too.  But that seems to be who KC wants to be now. 

[Mango]

25 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

He won't change.  His failure to run the ball to protect a double digit lead in last year's WC loss should have been his wakeup call.  But he was too enamored of Josh's inane talent as well as Diggs.  

 

Josh carried Daboll this year.  This could not be more evident than in yesterday's game.  The Bill's O-line was shameful, and Josh alone was keeping them in that game.  He was under constant attack and Daboll had nothing to help him.  

Agree on a lot of this. 
 

I would like a better RB/running game like Fournette in TB. But it isn’t a huge gripe for me (even though I’ve never been high in Singletary). What grinds my gears is the lack of attempt to try and navigate it with a quick passing game. I don’t mean Josh taking the underneath stuff when available. I mean back the defense off with Josh actually behind center. 3 step drop and let it go. 
 

We almost never see JA with a  3 step drop and let it go. It’s always 5-7 steps, wait a little for the routes to develop. Then either chuck it, hit the underneath, or take off. Josh has been great most of the year, dialing up the quick passing game is on Daboll...ESPECIALLY if you don’t have the run game. You have to back the LB up and stop them from just coming downhill all the time.