Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Tiberius said: When things are going bad for one side, the side that is doing bad tries to make it seem like they are all bad. Or that both parties wanted that war. Nope, Bush the Republican wanted that war and was president. He rallied the base to it and Dems got labeled soft on terror or worse. Wrong... voting records are facts. Labels spin and making things seem some way are for the sheep to fall in line. https://www.thoughtco.com/2002-iraq-war-vote-3325446 29 Democratic senators and 81 democratic congressmen voted for war. War mongering republicans including leaders such as Biden, Clinton, Schumer and Kerry... 🐑 Edited February 4, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 8 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Wrong... voting records are facts. Labels spin and making things seem some way are for the sheep to fall in line. https://www.thoughtco.com/2002-iraq-war-vote-3325446 29 Democratic senators and 81 democratic congressmen voted for war. A war a Republican lead and asked Congress to endorse. GOP lead. The right wing played the 9-11 scare tactic to the hilt. Terror alert warnings and everything. I'm glad so many Democrats voted against it. Did more Democrats or Republicans oppose the war? You can't answer, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Tiberius said: A war a Republican lead and asked Congress to endorse. GOP lead. The right wing played the 9-11 scare tactic to the hilt. Terror alert warnings and everything. I'm glad so many Democrats voted against it. Did more Democrats or Republicans oppose the war? You can't answer, lol Just to get this straight, are you saying that the republicans who voted for war are evil and the democrats were duped and/or peer pressured into voting for war? You see how that reads, right? Edited February 4, 2021 by Tenhigh 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, Tenhigh said: Just to get this straight, are you saying that the republicans who voted for war are evil and the democrats were duped and/or peer pressured into voting for war? You see how that reads, right? Nope, just saying the Republicans were the war party. They were totally all in. Dems, not so much. The attemnpt to turn it into a Democratic war is a false narrative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Tiberius said: Nope, just saying the Republicans were the war party. They were totally all in. Dems, not so much. The attemnpt to turn it into a Democratic war is a false narrative Definitely not Dem only, that's nonsense. It was bipartisan, though, with a heavy tilt toward republicans. But there were plenty of Dems fully on board, including our current president and former first lady. No reason to deny that, right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Dems, not so much. The attemnpt to turn it into a Democratic war is a false narrative The attempt to give a pass to Democrats that voted for it is a false narrative. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 10 minutes ago, Tenhigh said: Definitely not Dem only, that's nonsense. It was bipartisan, though, with a heavy tilt toward republicans. But there were plenty of Dems fully on board, including our current president and former first lady. No reason to deny that, right? Because politicians generally crater to the consensus of the public. The fact that any Dems or Republicans voted against it is astounding to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: just a different flock of sheep herded by different Sheppards. I’m sure they are programmed to think the same about you. you didn’t realize one of the things politicians love about war, aside from re-election, media distraction and increased power is the positive impact on the economy? Oh, I know politicians love spending money on the military - just look at how much A&D companies kick back to politicians on both sides for this ridiculous budget; including Trump. "Our military is completely rebuilt, with its power being unmatched anywhere in the world — and it is not even close" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 38 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: The attempt to give a pass to Democrats that voted for it is a false narrative. The Republicans lead us into that war. I wish the Dems had opposed it more, but Republican voters are fanatical about the war 39 minutes ago, Tenhigh said: Definitely not Dem only, that's nonsense. It was bipartisan, though, with a heavy tilt toward republicans. But there were plenty of Dems fully on board, including our current president and former first lady. No reason to deny that, right? Heavily tilted to Republicans, yes. Without Bush in charge there would have been no war Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 12 minutes ago, Tiberius said: The Republicans lead us into that war. I wish the Dems had opposed it more, but Republican voters are fanatical about the war Heavily tilted to Republicans, yes. Without Bush in charge there would have been no war Whatever you need to tell yourself to sleep at night. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 59 minutes ago, BillStime said: Oh, I know politicians love spending money on the military - just look at how much A&D companies kick back to politicians on both sides for this ridiculous budget; including Trump. Now we're getting somewhere. Why do you think that is? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Egg Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 36 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Republican voters are fanatical about the war Democrat voters are fanatical for full term baby killing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 21 minutes ago, I am the egg man said: Democrat voters are fanatical for full term baby killing. No, they are pro choice though. Big difference 48 minutes ago, Tenhigh said: Whatever you need to tell yourself to sleep at night. Yup, the truth is comforting Remember Condi Rice saying there might be a mushroom could over NY if we didn’t invade Iraq? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Doc Brown said: Because politicians generally crater to the consensus of the public. The fact that any Dems or Republicans voted against it is astounding to me. Interesting... March ‘03 is almost exactly what the senate vote was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 7 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Yup, the truth is comforting Remember Condi Rice saying there might be a mushroom could over NY if we didn’t invade Iraq? Totally a republican tilt, they were the drivers, but weren't the only ones pushing for it. Remember when Biden, stumping for Bush to get war power, said: "“These weapons must be dislodged from Saddam Hussein, or Saddam Hussein must be dislodged from power? and “President Bush has stated his determination to remove Saddam from power, a view many in Congress share”? There was bipartisan support for the war. Not all republicans are always wrong, and not all democrats are always right. And the same goes for the inverse. This could be a cool place to talk about politics if more people could admit that to themselves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Tenhigh said: Totally a republican tilt, they were the drivers, but weren't the only ones pushing for it. Remember when Biden, stumping for Bush to get war power, said: "“These weapons must be dislodged from Saddam Hussein, or Saddam Hussein must be dislodged from power? and “President Bush has stated his determination to remove Saddam from power, a view many in Congress share”? There was bipartisan support for the war. Not all republicans are always wrong, and not all democrats are always right. And the same goes for the inverse. This could be a cool place to talk about politics if more people could admit that to themselves. Could be, but the R and D extremists and blind loyalists are like a cult. You can’t convince them to consider water is wet or grass is green if their puppet master “news” outlet said otherwise. they drive conversation and debate away and dispute facts with vitriol and obfuscation Edited February 4, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: you didn’t realize one of the things politicians love about war, aside from re-election, media distraction and increased power is the positive impact on the economy? Meanwhile: 49 minutes ago, I am the egg man said: Democrat voters are fanatical for full term baby killing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 20 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Remember Condi Rice saying there might be a mushroom could over NY if we didn’t invade Iraq? And President Biden and Senate Majority leader Chuck Schumer and former Secretary of State/Climate czar John Kerry believed her. What does this say about their judgement and ability to lead the country? If even coked up frat boy W can pull one over on them doesn't that indicate they could be snookered again by someone else? Maybe Putin or Little Rocket Man or Xi Jinping? Something to think about. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 12 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: And President Biden and Senate Majority leader Chuck Schumer and former Secretary of State/Climate czar John Kerry believed her. What does this say about their judgement and ability to lead the country? If even coked up frat boy W can pull one over on them doesn't that indicate they could be snookered again by someone else? Maybe Putin or Little Rocket Man or Xi Jinping? Something to think about. Um, ok. What Trump actually said before the war Quote In his 2000 book “The America We Deserve,” Trump argued that a military strike on Iraq might be necessary. Trump wrote that the US still did not know the true status of Iraq’s nuclear program. He then wrote, “I’m no warmonger. But the fact is, if we decide a strike against Iraq is necessary, it is madness not to carry the mission to its conclusion. When we don’t, we have the worst of all worlds: Iraq remains a threat, and now has more incentive than ever to attack us.” He continued: “Am I being contradictory here, by presenting myself as a deal-maker and then recommending preemptive strikes? I don’t think so. There’s nothing really comparable to unleashing a squadron of bombers, but in the world of business sometimes you have to make quick, secret, decisive moves in order to gain a negotiating advantage.” When radio host Howard Stern asked Trump in September 2002 if he is “for invading Iraq,” Trump responded, “Yeah, I guess so. I wish the first time it was done correctly.” Trump did not express a firm opinion about the looming war in a Fox interview in January 2003, saying that “either you attack or don’t attack” and that President George W. Bush “has either got to do something or not do something, perhaps.” What Trump said during the war The day after the invasion in March 2003, Trump told Fox: “It looks like a tremendous success from a military standpoint.” Trump started publicly expressing negative or skeptical thoughts about the war shortly after it began. He called the war a “mess” in a brief comment at an Academy Awards after-party later in the week of the invasion. Six months into the war, Trump said, “It wasn’t a mistake to fight terrorism and fight it hard, and I guess maybe if I had to do it, I would have fought terrorism but not necessarily Iraq.” Still, Trump did not express definitive opposition in 2003. In a MSNBC appearance in November 2003, he lamented US spending on the war and said that “the question is whether or not we should have been in Iraq in the first place” – but he continued: “I don’t think that this president can do anything about that. He is really – he is on a course that has to stay.” In December 2003, Trump told Fox that the war had been “tougher than people thought,” but he added, “It just seems to be something that, we are there now, we have to stay, we have to win, otherwise we just won’t have the same respect.” It wasn’t until more than a year after the invasion that Trump conveyed explicit opposition to the war. He told Stern in April 2004 that “Iraq is a terrible mistake.” Trump was quoted in Esquire magazine in July 2004 lamenting deaths and injuries among Americans and Iraqis, saying, “And it turns out that all of the reasons for the war were blatantly wrong. All this for nothing!” Speaking to CNN’s Larry King in December 2004, Trump said, “Hopefully, we’ll be getting out.” He had become vehement by April 2006, telling CNN’s Wolf Blitzer, “I would do something to get out of that war as quickly as possible.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, BillStime said: Um, ok. What Trump actually said before the war What in heaven's does Trump have to do with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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