Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 10 minutes ago, NewEra said: I do After he wins the super bowl in a couple days, he would’ve been 1 Offside call away from winning 3 super titles in 3 years as a starter. just think about that It wouldn't have been a guarantee they beat the Rams. Far from it. 50/50 probably. Since Kupp was out maybe 60/40 in favor of the Chiefs?
TheFunPolice Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 Just now, NewEra said: I do Me too. If Jordan can be in the NBA GOAT conversation with 5 fewer rings than Russell "because of _____" then the same can apply to football. Heck, LeBron is in the GOAT conversation in the NBA with 4. Then it comes to stats. Statistical records are all temporary, as these young guys like Mahomes are obliterating the record books early on. If he plays until he's 39 or 40 he will hold every single passing record there is. Eventually Brady will be retired and watching his records fall one by one. Mahomes has 114 TDs in his first 3 years. Brady had 69. Does anyone think the game will change to favor the pass less? Help defenses more? Protect QBs less? Brady playing now just delays Mahomes taking over these records by a year or two. If Mahomes averages 38 TD a season (which has been his average) he'll break Brady's record in 12 years, when he is 37. It's amazing what winning more than 1 ring does for a legacy. That's the biggest question make with Mahomes. Is he truly the champion/clutch guy? That remains to be seen.
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 Allen can obviously make all the throws, if we get him the types of weapons that KC has and keep improving the O-Line Allen will be right there. We are at the beginning stages of a very fun ride. 1 1
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, NewEra said: I thought so too.....then I watched Mahomes. brady won multiple titles while not being the main reason they won. Mahomes will be THE reason the chiefs win several Super Bowls Keep in mind we are talking about 15-20 year careers. A lot can change in terms of personnel. Heck, Brady went like 10 years without a super bowl win. I totally agree that you basically are what your stats and achievements say you are. It's the only way you can compare players. But at the same time I am not naïve enough to not notice one dude is in possibly the best situation we have ever seen in the history of the league. That alone is what keeps this whole conversation a debate. If it were Allen that had the stacked team and Mahomes was still getting over on him and everyone else it would be a slam-dunk case closed debate that basically nobody will ever catch Mahomes and it's only a matter of time before Mahomes catches Brady. But the Chiefs will have to replace Hill and Kelce eventually. The really scary thing though is the Chiefs still have Reid. Has the guy ever not taken any QB and not gotten the very best out of them?
TheFunPolice Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) Don't forget this: early on in the Manning vs Brady debate Big Ben quietly won 2 rings and had another SB appearance while Peyton only had 1 title. I have a gut feeling Allen is going to be the Big Ben type career. While the flashy QBs get all the press, he goes to a couple SBs and wins 1-2. Heck, if Allen goes to 3 Super Bowls and wins 2 I think we'll all be very happy with that! Edited February 4, 2021 by TheFunPolice
Greg S Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 Just now, TheFunPolice said: Don't forget this: early on in the Manning vs Brady debate Big Ben quietly won 2 rings and had another SB appearance while Peyton only had 1 title. I have a gut feeling Allen is going to be the Big Ben type career. While the flashy QBs get all the press, he goes to a couple SBs and wins 1-2. If Allen wins a Super Bowl for the Bills then they might as well give him the keys to the city of Buffalo. He would never have to pay for a drink or meal in WNY ever again.
Nextmanup Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said: Don't forget this: early on in the Manning vs Brady debate Big Ben quietly won 2 rings and had another SB appearance while Peyton only had 1 title. I have a gut feeling Allen is going to be the Big Ben type career. While the flashy QBs get all the press, he goes to a couple SBs and wins 1-2. Heck, if Allen goes to 3 Super Bowls and wins 2 I think we'll all be very happy with that! All I want is one! One championship from the Bills and one from the Sabres and I'm good to go.
NewEra Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 25 minutes ago, Greg S said: KC better be real good at drafting and developing those players as well as being successful in FA. NE basically kept their window to win open for 20 years. Also KC will have to deal with salary cap issues like all teams. I hate them with a passion but what NE accomplished these past two decades was extremely impressive especially in today's salary cap world. I agree. I just believe that Mahomes and crew will win at least 5 Super Bowls by the time he retires. And he’ll be the main reasons they won every title. Jmo.
TheFunPolice Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Nextmanup said: All I want is one! One championship from the Bills and one from the Sabres and I'm good to go. I hear ya! With Allen we're going to have a chance!
NewEra Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 25 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: It wouldn't have been a guarantee they beat the Rams. Far from it. 50/50 probably. Since Kupp was out maybe 60/40 in favor of the Chiefs? Idk....I thought they were the best team in the league that year. Not a guaranteed win, but i personally feel that they would have won. 3 titles in the first 3 years and being the main reason they won. That’s just ridiculous. He has to hate Dee Ford.
TheFunPolice Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, NewEra said: I agree. I just believe that Mahomes and crew will win at least 5 Super Bowls by the time he retires. And he’ll be the main reasons they won every title. Jmo. If that happens then Reid will be in the GOAT discussion as well. Many don't realize that he is about to break into the top 5 all-time in HC wins. He has said he wants to coach another 10 years. By then, he could easily pass Belichick on the list, and maybe even make a push for #1. 4 minutes ago, NewEra said: Idk....I thought they were the best team in the league that year. Not a guaranteed win, but i personally feel that they would have won. 3 titles in the first 3 years and being the main reason they won. That’s just ridiculous. He has to hate Dee Ford. It's amazing how thin the line is. Dee Ford lines up correctly and Seattle hands the ball off to Lynch and Brady is 4-4 in the Super Bowl. Instead, because of 2 things he had ZERO control over, except the Ford wiped out his game-losing INT, he is unquestionably the greatest athlete in history in any sport, and there's just no comparison! LOL Edited February 4, 2021 by TheFunPolice 1
Sharky7337 Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 Thread title should really be some people in the league smoke rocks 1
Success Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 I don't know how any fan of the game can cite # of rings first in any GOAT discussion. That said, I know fans everywhere do this all the time w/ Brady. All the time - particularly after he wins another. When he won against the Rams in that SB, there were a million comments on the internet saying things like "well, no one will touch him as the GOAT now!" Really? He made one good pass in that game - which shows how ridiculous rings are as an argument. Football is the ultimate team game. You need a lot of things to happen in all 3 phases of the game - AND some luck - to get a title. Coaching also matters more & more the further you get in the playoffs. How can anyone even compare Brady & Manning? Brady had the GOAT coach, and an incredibly well run organization. Manning had 5 coaches, only one of whom I'd consider to be "good," and an organization that consistently failed to put a good line in front of him or a good defense on the other side of the ball. Would Brady really have 6 rings if Caldwell had been his coach? Or McCarthy? 1
TheFunPolice Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Success said: I don't know how any fan of the game can cite # of rings first in any GOAT discussion. That said, I know fans everywhere do this all the time w/ Brady. All the time - particularly after he wins another. When he won against the Rams in that SB, there were a million comments on the internet saying things like "well, no one will touch him as the GOAT now!" Really? He made one good pass in that game - which shows how ridiculous rings are as an argument. Football is the ultimate team game. You need a lot of things to happen in all 3 phases of the game - AND some luck - to get a title. Coaching also matters more & more the further you get in the playoffs. How can anyone even compare Brady & Manning? Brady had the GOAT coach, and an incredibly well run organization. Manning had 5 coaches, only one of whom I'd consider to be "good," and an organization that consistently failed to put a good line in front of him or a good defense on the other side of the ball. Would Brady really have 6 rings if Caldwell had been his coach? Or McCarthy? The good news is that peoples' memories are short, and the newest is always the best. Which is why the guy who won 11 NBA titles in 13 seasons isn't thought of as the GOAT. That's why this game is huge for those of us who want to change the "Brady is GOAT" conversation. If Mahomes comes up short we're probably stuck, because Mahomes could eventually win 6 and it'll be "yeah but." 1
Success Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said: The good news is that peoples' memories are short, and the newest is always the best. Which is why the guy who won 11 NBA titles in 13 seasons isn't thought of as the GOAT. That's why this game is huge for those of us who want to change the "Brady is GOAT" conversation. If Mahomes comes up short we're probably stuck, because Mahomes could eventually win 6 and it'll be "yeah but." Well, one thing I know from reading the Pats boards is that the fans there HATE how Mahomes is brought up as a potential GOAT already. And they rely completely on the rings argument - it's always "he's good, but no way he gets 6 rings!" Doesn't matter. Bradshaw wasn't as good as Montana. Dilfer wasn't better than Marino. And you're right - it's always about the newest. The media will go crazy as soon as Mahomes gets #2 if it plays out that way.
JaCrispy Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 I love Josh, but Mahomes is on another planet...he’s the Jordan of the NFL...let’s just hope Allen isn’t Ewing...lol 2
Like A Mofo Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 10 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: I love Josh, but Mahomes is on another planet...he’s the Jordan of the NFL...let’s just hope Allen isn’t Ewing...lol If you mean that Ewing was great and was never given that true star around him I agree lets hope Beane gets the needed talent around Josh that the Knicks never gave Ewing in his prime. 1
Eastport bills Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 I am the biggest JA fan out there, and I know Mahomes is better right now and it's not close. Mahomes has 2 weapons that are HOF candidates and a better O-line, so that has to be factored in, but in their face to face matchups, Mahomes dominated and Mahomes has gotten to 2 SBs being behind in every playoff game. When JA gets to a SB and beats Mahomes to get there, let's have the conversation.
eball Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 13 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: I love Josh, but Mahomes is on another planet...he’s the Jordan of the NFL...let’s just hope Allen isn’t Ewing...lol I’m tired of this crap. Call me a homer, whatever. Watch what Josh does over the next few years, and realize the difference between what Mahomes walked into and what Josh has developed. Mahomes is great, on a path to be a 1st ballot HOFer. Josh will be right there with him — he just got a late start. 1
Like A Mofo Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, eball said: I’m tired of this crap. Call me a homer, whatever. Watch what Josh does over the next few years, and realize the difference between what Mahomes walked into and what Josh has developed. Mahomes is great, on a path to be a 1st ballot HOFer. Josh will be right there with him — he just got a late start. From your lips to the Football God's ears I hope you are right. As far as Josh goes, I still believe to be considered great you have to duplicate it, need to see in 2021 Josh had a similar year and then I think its fair to put Josh in the Mahomes category.
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