Richard Noggin Posted January 20, 2021 Posted January 20, 2021 After some brief and fruitless googling, I'd like to ask those savvier than me: is the Bills offense utilizing less offensive motion (pre- or post-snap) lately (like in the playoffs in particular)? To my eye, when the offense is out of synch (or just LESS in synch) in 2020, I've noticed fewer pre-snap motions and less creativity post-snap. Does Daboll have lapses where he leans too heavily on Allen in a more static shotgun spread? I know 17 has had immense success this season quarterbacking such an attack, but I'm wondering if that sometimes leads to less dynamic, diverse play-calling? Offensive motion, along with play-action, are two major indicators of successful offenses. And oftentimes in 2020, the Bills are near the top of the league. Where can I find more recent stats breaking down these trends? I'll bet there a few go-to websites that I'm just not privy to. Lazily I tend to rely on posters here and radio and podcasts for such analytics. 4 1
Ethan in Cleveland Posted January 20, 2021 Posted January 20, 2021 You remember the creativity when it works and forget about it when it doesn't. No doubt he is using less Jet sweep action. But he is still moving guys around. He will line up a back out wide and then bring him back in the backfield. A lot of little moves by Diggs along the LOS. Against Baltimore it was Knox. He moved him on and off the line frequently and often settling into a H-back stance but instead of outside the tackle he was lined up between the Guard and OT. I don't know what he saw or the reason to do it. Perhaps to deal with blitzes. I'd have to go and see but there was a critical 3rd and short play action pass to Knox that was executed perfectly. I just don't remember if there was presnap motion on that play. 1 1
NewEra Posted January 20, 2021 Posted January 20, 2021 He’s saving it all for this week. Gonna be motion all day on Sunday!! I hope 3 4 1
Richard Noggin Posted January 20, 2021 Author Posted January 20, 2021 19 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: You remember the creativity when it works and forget about it when it doesn't. No doubt he is using less Jet sweep action. But he is still moving guys around. He will line up a back out wide and then bring him back in the backfield. A lot of little moves by Diggs along the LOS. Against Baltimore it was Knox. He moved him on and off the line frequently and often settling into a H-back stance but instead of outside the tackle he was lined up between the Guard and OT. I don't know what he saw or the reason to do it. Perhaps to deal with blitzes. I'd have to go and see but there was a critical 3rd and short play action pass to Knox that was executed perfectly. I just don't remember if there was presnap motion on that play. There's always the risk of confirmation bias without objective data. Thanks for pointing out some specific examples of recent motion (and the recent lack of jet sweep action). But where do we find the numbers to support what you're saying? Or what I'm "feeling" without knowing if it's at all valid? 19 minutes ago, NewEra said: He’s saving it all for this week. Gonna be motion all day on Sunday!! I hope We can hope. 1
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 20, 2021 Posted January 20, 2021 One possibility is he’s got certain rules on which types of defenses to use the jet motion and when not, maybe? another is he might be one of those types that try to fool you with new, so once it’s on film and defense is playing or even mindful of it, you don’t come back to it? hard to know.. 3
sven233 Posted January 20, 2021 Posted January 20, 2021 Oh, there has definitely been less. There were games this year that over 60% of the time they were using some sort of motion, jet action, orbit motion, and all types of eye candy. So far in the Playoffs, there has been virtually none of it. You may see something here and there, but it has not been used nearly as much as it was most of the year. And you know what? I think it has partially been by design. I think these coaches have been trying to "play the long game" so to speak for quite a while now. I think seeing Allen using those designed runs against the Colts is a perfect example of it. After the first few games of the year, that virtually went away until the Colts game. There are definitely some elements to this offense that they used at points during this year that were very successful that they haven't used so far in the Playoffs. I think there is a definite chance you see some of that eye candy and motion return against the Chiefs and, if we are blessed enough to win this game, in the Super Bowl. GO BILLS! 2 3 1
Richard Noggin Posted January 20, 2021 Author Posted January 20, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, sven233 said: Oh, there has definitely been less. There were games this year that over 60% of the time they were using some sort of motion, jet action, orbit motion, and all types of eye candy. So far in the Playoffs, there has been virtually none of it. You may see something here and there, but it has not been used nearly as much as it was most of the year. And you know what? I think it has partially been by design. I think these coaches have been trying to "play the long game" so to speak for quite a while now. I think seeing Allen using those designed runs against the Colts is a perfect example of it. After the first few games of the year, that virtually went away until the Colts game. There are definitely some elements to this offense that they used at points during this year that were very successful that they haven't used so far in the Playoffs. I think there is a definite chance you see some of that eye candy and motion return against the Chiefs and, if we are blessed enough to win this game, in the Super Bowl. GO BILLS! So you're focusing more on POST-snap motion, yes? I absolutely agree with you (although neither of us has actual numbers to back us up). McKenzie has all but disappeared after his Miami coming-out party. You intimate that such a "withholding" of certain offensive schema might be an intentional, longer-term game to keep some bullets in the chamber, so to speak? Edited January 20, 2021 by Richard Noggin
klos63 Posted January 20, 2021 Posted January 20, 2021 Hasn't McKenzie been dealing with an ankle the last couple games, Beasley hurting too has taken less snaps than usual. I think their injuries have had an effect on our play calling. 3 1
Richard Noggin Posted January 20, 2021 Author Posted January 20, 2021 23 minutes ago, klos63 said: Hasn't McKenzie been dealing with an ankle the last couple games, Beasley hurting too has taken less snaps than usual. I think their injuries have had an effect on our play calling. I'd like this as an explanation. Be nice if there was someone who could fill McKenzie's role, of course. But maybe his athletic skillset is unique on the roster, and Daboll mostly implements those jet sweep/eye candy concepts because he has a specific guy who is dangerous in that role...
blacklabel Posted January 20, 2021 Posted January 20, 2021 38 minutes ago, klos63 said: Hasn't McKenzie been dealing with an ankle the last couple games, Beasley hurting too has taken less snaps than usual. I think their injuries have had an effect on our play calling. In addition to this, I think they also were a little hamstrung in the play calling department because of all the bad drive starts against Indy. Whenever a team is backed up in their own end like that it limits your options. And in the first half of that game their average drive start was like their own 8 or something. I felt like I saw a little more motion and movement against Baltimore, where they had much better field position throughout the game. Hopefully Daboll can really open the playbook and get them into a groove early and then keep it rolling.
Saxum Posted January 20, 2021 Posted January 20, 2021 Good news is they have an additional day to plan.
mjt328 Posted January 20, 2021 Posted January 20, 2021 I've noticed, and figured it had something to do with Isaiah McKenzie's injury. He exploded for a career day against the Dolphins in Week 17. Then he almost completely disappeared from our offense. If it's not due to injury, then my guess is that something on film (against the Colts and Ravens) suggested to Daboll that we weren't going have much success with misdirection plays and jet sweeps.
Giuseppe Tognarelli Posted January 20, 2021 Posted January 20, 2021 I think the notion that the Bills have been "saving" things for the Championship and Super Bowl is very unrealistic wishful thinking. They're not going to hold back and risk losing a playoff game. That doesn't happen. They put their best plan together to beat a given opponent, period. 1 1
JimKellyTryouts Posted January 20, 2021 Posted January 20, 2021 Cover1 showed a few plays on their breakdown which had some motions to help ID coverages, so it's not quite as black and white as it may appear. I agree it's shown up a good bit less, esp jet sweeps and whatnot, but it has been there. From what I recall, lots of the motion and position of the safeties pre snap helped indicate what seemed to be a 0 look, only for the Ravens to haul ass and give a completely different look (Diggs first overthrow, the second overthrow when he was open was a result of Lee Smith doing some motion, among others) 1
Back2Buff Posted January 20, 2021 Posted January 20, 2021 8 hours ago, klos63 said: Hasn't McKenzie been dealing with an ankle the last couple games, Beasley hurting too has taken less snaps than usual. I think their injuries have had an effect on our play calling. McKenzie was the scout team QB before Balt so there is no injury there. This offense is best when McKenzie is heavily utilized. Daboll has gone vanilla on offense in the playoffs, relying on Allen to make something out of nothing. It is has been a disappointment to say the least. I felt like throughout the season we had the most TDs that didn't involve the QB throwing, and now we have gone extremely boring in the playoffs. Daboll refuses to run the ball with the wind last week and Singletary's success last year vs Balt, could have very well cost him an HC job, I would agree with any team that passes over on him. He leaves a lot to be desired.
Ramza86 Posted January 20, 2021 Posted January 20, 2021 I saw no motions on saturday. I was asking where the heck were they... but then i said obviously there is a reason we didnt cause we have been doing it all year.
SoCal Deek Posted January 20, 2021 Posted January 20, 2021 We’ve just played against two of the league’s top defenses. That’s not the case this week. Let’s see if the our offense doesn’t look a bit different...I think it will. 1 2
Hebert19 Posted January 20, 2021 Posted January 20, 2021 He has. Which means we may see more of it this week i think. Designed runs for Josh and mckenzie to soften the D a bit.
Kmart128 Posted January 20, 2021 Posted January 20, 2021 I think it's just cause John Brown is back so McKenzie is getting less playing time. Our 4 reciever sets are typically Gabe, Diggs, Cole and Brown now. He McKenzie was our presnap motion guy but with our recievers healthy he is just seeing less playing time.
Watkins90 Posted January 20, 2021 Posted January 20, 2021 8 hours ago, blacklabel said: In addition to this, I think they also were a little hamstrung in the play calling department because of all the bad drive starts against Indy. Whenever a team is backed up in their own end like that it limits your options. And in the first half of that game their average drive start was like their own 8 or something. I felt like I saw a little more motion and movement against Baltimore, where they had much better field position throughout the game. Hopefully Daboll can really open the playbook and get them into a groove early and then keep it rolling. I mean, if there was ever a week to open up the playbook, this is it. It's win and go to the SUPER BOWL or lose and watch it from the couch. I'd expect we pull out all the stops this Sunday to get the W.
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