Warcodered Posted January 18, 2021 Posted January 18, 2021 12 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: Would those 90s teams become instantly overshadowed or their accomplishments diminished by a team that won it all? Nope. I feel like WHEN we win it all in 3 weeks, the entire franchise, fan base, and players past all become champions. That's the family that exists here. Definitely getting to that game 4 years in a row is insane. That's 4 years of the worst draft picks and the least time off.
folz Posted January 18, 2021 Posted January 18, 2021 (edited) First of all, don't forget the Champs from '64 & '65 (as another era of glory days). I'm not old enough to have seen that team, but they are Bills legends too. New legends don't replace the old legends, they just add to the story. Think about the Yankees...did Mickey Mantle and Roger Maris erase Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig? Did Reggie replace Mickey? Did Jeter replace Bucky Dent and Phil Rizzuto? No. And would we take Jim Kelly's name off the Wall when it is time to place Josh's name up there? Absolutely not. Everything this current team accomplishes will only add to the amazing story of this franchise, not eclipse what has come before---even if they can secure Buffalo's first Super Bowl title. It doesn't matter that the 90s team didn't win it all, they were still a great team with Hall of Famers (and 4 AFC Championships). But they were so much more than that...they were family, Marv and that team were great examples to our community about perseverance, tenacity, character, and sticking together (even when the chips are down). Think of the community showing up to City Hall after the first Super Bowl loss and calling for Scott. Or Bebe's strip of Leon Lett in the Dallas Super Bowl, or Marv's poem about Sir Andrew. Nothing erases that. And nothing diminishes the AFL Championship teams, the 'Hit heard round the world," "Lookie, Lookie, hear comes Cookie," either...just because they were maybe 1 year short of a shot at a Super Bowl title. The Legends live on. As to the future, we couldn't ask for better leaders right now than the Pegulas, Beane, and McDermott. The family culture and Humble but Hungry mindset, respect your opponents, etc. Even if we were to win multiple Lombardis, we would never become the Patriots or the Patriots fans (arrogant and entitled). That's not this team and that's not western New York/southern Ontario. And for our youngest members of Bills Mafia, it is up to us to teach them about the history, the pain, the down years, the near misses, the moments of elation, the coaches and players, etc. So, they understand this insane fandom that we all share, which is truly special in the American sports landscape, specifically because of what we have gone through (good and bad). For instance, I doubt that the Patriots fans have ever felt the same emotional and cathartic feelings that we all shared on New Year's Eve 2017/2018 for any of their Super Bowls, except for maybe their first one (and even that is questionable). They have championships, but they don't have those true life moments that we have all shared. It's like the old saying about life/happiness being about the journey, not the destination. I have tried to explain this to fans from other teams when they have asked me why are you a Bills fan or what makes being a Bills fan so special. They never seem to understand, but I know you all do! And despite losing the 4 Super Bowls, until the big game every year during that era, we as fans went into every game expecting to win. If we got down early, we expected the team to come back. We got a glimpse of that down the stretch this season, it just took us a while to truly believe it was happening. And let me tell you, it is fun. We as a fan base are in for a wild ride. It won't all be great and we may have our share of heartbreaks still to come...but don't be afraid of it, embrace it! It will only add to the legend of the Buffalo Bills! And who cares if someone else questions your fandom...you have all of BillsMafia who know what you're all about as soon as they see the Red, White, and Blue. And being someone who no longer resides in western New York...I can tell you, it is like seeing a long lost friend when I run into another Bills fan. So much unspoken understanding and comradeship. We will never lose that! Strap in and enjoy the ride! Edited January 18, 2021 by folz 1 4
loyal2dagame Posted January 18, 2021 Posted January 18, 2021 My opinion wouldn't change on this team's history. The 90's dynasty was a sight to behold. The way the team and WNY carried themselves after 4 letdowns was astounding. If we reach the holy grail this year, it's just another chapter in our history, ...... in our blood........
Ethan in Cleveland Posted January 18, 2021 Posted January 18, 2021 (edited) Not much would change for the players. The top 5 players in Bills' history would still be Smith, Simpson, Kelly, Thomas, and Reed in that order. Allen would immediately jump into the conversation of the next group including Kemp, Gilchrist, Tasker, DeLamielleure, and a few others. Diggs of course is in the conversation for one of the best players to ever play in Buffalo but he would need several more seasons to crack into the top 10. The interesting conversation is where would Beane and McDermott rank? I've posted often that I don't think Levy belongs in the HOF but I do think Polian does. Beane would instantly vault to #2 GM of all time in Bills' history. Hell he might be there already. McD surely moves ahead of Lou Saban with a SB win. Add a few more winning seasons even without another SB run and he would likely move past Levy as well. Edited January 18, 2021 by Ethan in Portland
Bob in STL Posted January 18, 2021 Posted January 18, 2021 Winning a SB will not change my opinion of past great Bills teams and players. Everyone wants to compare this team to the 90’s SB era teams with all the great HOF’ers. I love the mid 60’s team as much as the 90’s. Saban, Kemp, Lamonica, Dubenion, Shaw, Gilcrest, Sestak, McDole, Stratton, Byrd, Saimes, Edgerson, Gogalak, McGuire, ... The mid 60’s teams were fabulous in their era. Many of them are on the All Time AFL 1st and 2nd teams. I also really like the Chuck Knox teams of the late 70’s, that era should have been longer. I like them as much or more than the Wade Phillips era teams. Right now the McBeane era is right at the top too. Winning now dors not change my feelings for the past. I’m ready to enjoy the ride and get that Lombardi.
DCBongo Posted January 18, 2021 Posted January 18, 2021 Win one and it has all been worth it. My father can die happy (eventually) and we will no longer be known as the team that lost 4 super bowls.
LABILLBACKER Posted January 18, 2021 Posted January 18, 2021 We're going to win a SB with Josh Allen. If not this year, very very soon. It will never take away the legend of our 90's heroes. But the more amazing legacy of this team is the loyalty and dedication of the greatest & loudest fans on the planet. What we witnessed last night with only 6700 fans was spectacular. There will be a day when the fans and team can cry together in joy.
Nextmanup Posted January 18, 2021 Posted January 18, 2021 2 hours ago, BigDingus said: I've been thinking about this a lot lately. The modern greats like Smith, Thomas, Kelly, Reed, Bennett, Talley, Tasker, etc. are highly regarded, all-timers to us Bills fans. Even though they were a part of teams that lost 4 straight Super Bowls, Bills fans have worn that like a badge of honor. Those are the "glory days," with the rest of our history being that of failures, soul crushing plays like the Music City "Miracle," and getting smacked around by Brady & the Pats for 2 decades. We're the only AFCE team with 0 x Super Bowl wins. We had the longest active playoff drought in North American Sports. Our best player was our punter for years. Now, we're faced with a team that is competing for a Super Bowl win. It's something we've all dreamed of, but never seemed obtainable. IF it happens, it almost feels like everything I've honored as a Bills fan gets thrown on its head. The little man syndrome, Bills PTSD, and the underdog pride kinda goes out the window. We'd be the reigning Super Bowl champs. We'd be front-runners. The team's legends are now eclipsed. Allen leapfrogs Kelly. The former greats with no rings who represented us are no longer our identity. People won't be shocked to see me in Texas wearing Bills gear. I already get questions this year about "were you always a Bills fan?" or comments like "funny to see Bills fans coming out of the shadows!" even though I've always been wearing them... Which leads to the inevitable influx of new fans, a new generation of front runner kids who are drawn to the team...something unimaginable just a few years ago. Simply put, the entire legacy of the franchise changes in the minds of those on the outside. Will you guys feel different being fans of the frontrunner team, the reigning champs? Will the new guys be elevated above the current legends in your mind? I think the common response would be "I'll always appreciate what they did, nothing will replace them" but will it feel weird having Allen & Co. leapfrog them in terms of success? I hate to admit it, but it feels weird to me! Not used to this kind of attention & spotlight on the team, and I'd always be thankful for the success the legends brought to us in the 90's, but after a Bills SB win (fingers crossed), history will look back & shine attention on THIS group first & foremost, not the previous one. We will be the team that gets every opponent's best shot. It's a foreign dynamic that doesn't feel real. We haven't reached that point yet, but we're eerily close. Here's hoping we get to experience it 😁 This is an interesting question, and I think there is a good conversation to be had based on this foundation. But for now, it's too early. I would need to see this team win a SB first and then reflect on my feelings. I think it is quite possible the previous SB teams would diminished slightly in stature in comparison, at least in my mind. But I'm not positive right now.
Lieutenant Aldo Raine Posted January 18, 2021 Posted January 18, 2021 Uh, what about the 1964 and 1965 AFL Champions?? Do they not count?
Mike in Horseheads Posted January 18, 2021 Posted January 18, 2021 Lets get there, win and salute the past
billsfan89 Posted January 18, 2021 Posted January 18, 2021 A win this year would cement Josh as having the best season of all time in franchise history and it would really reward the legends from the 90's who stuck with the team. Thomas, Kelly, Bruce and most of the rest of the legends were always consistently showing up for this team in the drought years. They always tried to tell new draft picks and acquisitions how great the city was and how great the fans are even when the organization wasn't there. A SB win would be an insane destination for this team who entered into 2017 coming off a failed Rex experiment and in cap hell with no great plan at QB. I can't get too ahead of myself KC away is a tall order so let's just focus on that! 32 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said: Uh, what about the 1964 and 1965 AFL Champions?? Do they not count? Unfortunately no, for some reason pro-football history resets during the Super Bowl Era.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 18, 2021 Posted January 18, 2021 I already think McDermott is better than levy.
SinceThe70s Posted January 18, 2021 Posted January 18, 2021 3 hours ago, BigDingus said: People won't be shocked to see me in Texas wearing Bills gear. I already get questions this year about "were you always a Bills fan?" or comments like "funny to see Bills fans coming out of the shadows!" even though I've always been wearing them...😁 A Super Bowl win wouldn't change a damn thing with regard to my opinion of the franchise, legends and history. Our history is what it is, we've had some great players/memories and some remarkably painful memories. That's the gig with fandom. We're still waiting for the first SB win, when we get it - and we will - the wait for the next one will start immediately. As an out of market fan I got a laugh at my own expense at the bolded above. I think as a defense mechanism against that I've been wearing by most beat up Bills hat around town lately. Drought colors...b!tches!
fridge Posted January 18, 2021 Posted January 18, 2021 2 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said: Not much would change for the players. The top 5 players in Bills' history would still be Smith, Simpson, Kelly, Thomas, and Reed in that order. Allen would immediately jump into the conversation of the next group... Yeah, no. If Allen wins the SB he’s the best Bills QB of all-time and you’re going to be very alone with your opinion to the contrary. 2
billspro Posted January 18, 2021 Posted January 18, 2021 2 hours ago, FireChans said: Josh Allen wins 1 SB and he's the best player in franchise history by a mile and half. Agreed
MyDogLuvsPB Posted January 18, 2021 Posted January 18, 2021 To the OP: are you asking about winning just 1 SB? Then nothing changes for me about the past. I will always LOVE those 90's teams they meant so much to me growing up as a young teenager. I'd be happy that we finally won it all but what would it matter if we were relegated to obscurity & mediocrity for the next 2-3 decades like the Colts, Jets, and Chiefs? Now, if the team wins multiple championships with this core of players, then I'd have to re-evaluate the "greatness" of each era. Alas, we can't have this discussion until we actually can call ourselves world champions.
Ethan in Cleveland Posted January 18, 2021 Posted January 18, 2021 30 minutes ago, fridge said: Yeah, no. If Allen wins the SB he’s the best Bills QB of all-time and you’re going to be very alone with your opinion to the contrary. So by your logic Bob Griese is best QB in Dolphins history?
fridge Posted January 18, 2021 Posted January 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: So by your logic Bob Griese is best QB in Dolphins history? Don’t be ridiculous. He is 100% better than Kelly if he wins the Super Bowl. I don’t even know what argument you have. This is just his third season! He just about shattered any record Kelly had and he’s got 10+ years to go. You can still love Jim Kelly and respect the fact that Allen is unquestionably on pace to be the best player this franchise has ever even dreamed of having.
Ethan in Cleveland Posted January 18, 2021 Posted January 18, 2021 1 minute ago, fridge said: Don’t be ridiculous. He is 100% better than Kelly if he wins the Super Bowl. I don’t even know what argument you have. This is just his third season! He just about shattered any record Kelly had and he’s got 10+ years to go. You can still love Jim Kelly and respect the fact that Allen is unquestionably on pace to be the best player this franchise has ever even dreamed of having. Well the arguments would be it's just his third season, the future is not known, and you are comparing stats from vastly different eras. I actually agree he is on pace to be better than Kelly, but that will take several more years to know. If you follow your logic, and Herbert won a SB next year would he already be better than Fouts?
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