Bermuda Triangle Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: We know the Ravens would rather play Snead and Bryant. Who we know plenty about. Bryant had 12 targets and 6 catches in 7 games. Boykin had 36 targets and 22 catches in 17 games. Duvernay had 26 targets and 24 catches & rushes in 17 games. Seems like Boykin and Duvernay were more productive than was Bryant. 6 minutes ago, FireChans said: I hope the Ravens don't get better. But then again, I'm a Bills fan, not a Lamar Jackson hater. I don't "hate" Jackson, it's just pathetic to see "Bills fans" make excuse after excuse for Jackson. Same "fans" who probably ripped Allen in season's past.
GunnerBill Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said: Bryant had 12 targets and 6 catches in 7 games. Boykin had 36 targets and 22 catches in 17 games. Duvernay had 26 targets and 24 catches & rushes in 17 games. Seems like Boykin and Duvernay were more productive than was Bryant. I don't "hate" Jackson, it's just pathetic to see "Bills fans" make excuse after excuse for Jackson. Same "fans" who probably ripped Allen in season's past. Yes. I would expect they did. Bryant is utterly done. That group of receivers is not good.
FireChans Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 9 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said: Bryant had 12 targets and 6 catches in 7 games. Boykin had 36 targets and 22 catches in 17 games. Duvernay had 26 targets and 24 catches & rushes in 17 games. Seems like Boykin and Duvernay were more productive than was Bryant. I don't "hate" Jackson, it's just pathetic to see "Bills fans" make excuse after excuse for Jackson. Same "fans" who probably ripped Allen in season's past. Pretty sure most folks in this thread have admitted that LJ has deficiencies as a passer. You're arguing with yourself at this point. 3
klos63 Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Doc said: It’s reputation. Everybody jumped on the Lamar bandwagon after his MVP season and are refusing to jump off...yet. Just like some don’t really want to give Josh credit for being a great quarterback...yet. Winning MVP is a big deal. He had a tremendous season last year. Should they give up on him? Is there any credible football person not giving Josh credit for being a great QB. Everyone has him in the MVP conversation. 1
SCBills Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 Mike Schopp saw his life flash in front of his eyes when Lamar went down. 2
Billsfan1972 Posted January 17, 2021 Author Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said: Bryant had 12 targets and 6 catches in 7 games. Boykin had 36 targets and 22 catches in 17 games. Duvernay had 26 targets and 24 catches & rushes in 17 games. Seems like Boykin and Duvernay were more productive than was Bryant. I don't "hate" Jackson, it's just pathetic to see "Bills fans" make excuse after excuse for Jackson. Same "fans" who probably ripped Allen in season's past. He doesn't throw & is not overly accurate. Is he a great runner & dynamic.... Yes..... I posted this earlier today.... https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/17258/willie-snead-iv The thread was based on what I expect many analysts and articles that will continue to defend Lamar. If Allen threw that pick 6, it would have been a different narrative. Edited January 17, 2021 by Billsfan1972 1
Adam Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 35 minutes ago, FLFan said: There is no way Jackson would succeed in Dabols offense. No way. Disagreed. It clearly wouldn't look the same as it does with Allen's, but I think Jackson is a capable passer. He needs an offense with far better design to take advantage of talent, and more talent.
Scott7975 Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, klos63 said: Winning MVP is a big deal. He had a tremendous season last year. Should they give up on him? Is there any credible football person not giving Josh credit for being a great QB. Everyone has him in the MVP conversation. It depends. Is he going to bring a championship to them or just be a regular season hero? Do you pay a regular season hero 40-50 million dollars? I expect even his regular season hero slides as more teams play like our D did. Same thing that happened to SF. The window is closing. If it were me, I would pick up the 5th year option and see how that year plays out. Once they start paying a QB that kind of dough, the other parts of the team slide off. Such as that defense. Is he still going to win as many games? I think not. Edited January 17, 2021 by Scott7975
FireChans Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 Just now, Scott7975 said: It depends. Is he going to bring a championship to them or just be a regular season hero? Do you pay a regular season hero 40-50 million dollars? He won a playoff game this year. Hard to say he has no chance of bringing a championship.
Doc Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 23 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said: I hope Allen Robinson signs with Baltimore this off-season, so that this time next season, we can compare his '21 stats with those he had with Trubisky and Foles in '20. Robinson is the best FA WR who will available and will have his pick of places to go. I'm not sure Baltimore is high on his list. 5 minutes ago, klos63 said: Winning MVP is a big deal. He had a tremendous season last year. Should they give up on him? Is there any credible football person not giving Josh credit for being a great QB. Everyone has him in the MVP conversation. Many have (begrudgingly, it seems) been forced to admit he's a great player now. But any time he throws a bad pass, usually it's mentioned how poorly he played in his first 2 years. Yet no one ever offers the excuses that are being given for Jackson (bad OC/OL/WRs) who is in his 3rd year. And obviously no you don't give up on him. But do you commit $40M/year on him, further making it harder to get those other things he needs? 2
JoPoy88 Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 28 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said: I don't "hate" Jackson, it's just pathetic to see "Bills fans" make excuse after excuse for Jackson. Same "fans" who probably ripped Allen in season's past. do yourself a favor and check the OP and the thread title again. These aren’t “bills fans’” excuses. The discussion is around what the Ravens fans and sympathizers are saying. or that was the discussion until you derailed it with your tangents. 1
Scott7975 Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 1 minute ago, FireChans said: He won a playoff game this year. Hard to say he has no chance of bringing a championship. I don't think he will ever win one. That said, I never said he has no chance. What I believe is he isnt going to perform as well going forward. If they think Roman is a problem and they dump him then he is likely to perform even worse than I expect. Also if they pay him they might not be able to pay some of that defense. If the defense gets worse on top of other teams starting to take away Lamars ability... the chips are stacked against him IMO. Either he can't develop or they don't care to develop his QB game. Either way, it's not good.
GunnerBill Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, Scott7975 said: It depends. Is he going to bring a championship to them or just be a regular season hero? Do you pay a regular season hero 40-50 million dollars? This is a very fair and pertinent question. I think the Josh contract is easy - pay what he wants. The Baker contract is easy - $35m per is the absolute ceiling and you do not go any higher. The Lamar contract? I dunno where you go with that. 2
FireChans Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 Just now, Scott7975 said: I don't think he will ever win one. That said, I never said he has no chance. What I believe is he isnt going to perform as well going forward. If they think Roman is a problem and they dump him then he is likely to perform even worse than I expect. Also if they pay him they might not be able to pay some of that defense. If the defense gets worse on top of other teams starting to take away Lamars ability... the chips are stacked against him IMO. Either he can't develop or they don't care to develop his QB game. Either way, it's not good. Lots of QB’s never win one. Most, in fact. What I do know is that Lamar has gone to the postseason every year since being drafted. He’s improved his playoff performance every year. Hard to declare “time to reset” when you lose a divisional matchup after getting concussed in the third Q.
klos63 Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, Doc said: Robinson is the best FA WR who will available and will have his pick of places to go. I'm not sure Baltimore is high on his list. Many have (begrudgingly, it seems) been forced to admit he's a great player now. But any time he throws a bad pass, usually it's mentioned how poorly he played in his first 2 years. Yet no one ever offers the excuses that are being given for Jackson (bad OC/OL/WRs) who is in his 3rd year. And obviously no you don't give up on him. But do you commit $40M/year on him, further making it harder to get those other things he needs? He definitely needs to pick up his game, but I really think Roman doesn't do him any favors. Always thought he was the most overrated OC. The offense is all built on running, they have an amazing running game and they draft a RB in the first round. Look what happened when Allen has more talent around him. We built up the Oline and our WR corps this offseason, got him great coaching... doesn't look like the Ravens have given Lamar the same type of help.
Scott7975 Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, FireChans said: Lots of QB’s never win one. Most, in fact. What I do know is that Lamar has gone to the postseason every year since being drafted. He’s improved his playoff performance every year. Hard to declare “time to reset” when you lose a divisional matchup after getting concussed in the third Q. Its not hard to declare at all. Either the team believes he can win them a championship or they don't. If they believe, then they pay him. If they don't, then perhaps they don't pay him. I look at him and I don't believe. Not unless he keeps an amazing team around him which is tough to do after paying him. Again, I said I would pick up the 5th year option and let it play out. Then make a decision. Edited January 17, 2021 by Scott7975
Man with No Name Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 i think you give lamar what watson got. maybe throw an extra 10 million in there for the MVP. I think Watson is a bit underpaid. that contract would be appropriate for Lamar
buffaloboyinATL Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said: He needs better receivers seems to be a tired excuse. That excuse holds no water. He was throwing to one of the best TE’s in the league. We just made a better play.
Chicken Boo Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Buffalo03 said: Jerry Rice in his prime wouldn't do anything with Lamar Jackson as his QB No, but Moss and T.O. would.
Doc Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 Just now, klos63 said: He definitely needs to pick up his game, but I really think Roman doesn't do him any favors. Always thought he was the most overrated OC. The offense is all built on running, they have an amazing running game and they draft a RB in the first round. Look what happened when Allen has more talent around him. We built up the Oline and our WR corps this offseason, got him great coaching... doesn't look like the Ravens have given Lamar the same type of help. I agree about Roman. But McD had no qualms jettisoning Dennison after 1 year despite the team making the playoffs. I'd start there. The problem is, can they get anyone better? As for play-makers, again they might help him get better, but will it make him get good enough? And will they be able to determine this before needing to make a decision on a new contract? Again, I'd hate to be in their shoes.
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