So the Lamar excuses start????

[SCBills]

Buffalo Bills:

 

Develop an elite passer in Josh Allen.

 

Build a top of the line pass blocking OL. (as a result, the run game can suffer - most lineman aren't great at both)

 

Invest draft capital and cap space into a top end WR room.

 

Can't invest heavy everywhere so we rely on 3rd Round Picks at RB1, RB2 & TE.  

 

 

Baltimore Ravens:

 

Build around an elite athlete at QB who is limited in the passing game.

 

Build a dominant run blocking OL. (as a result the pass pro suffers)

 

Invest heavily at the TE/RB position.

 

Spend a 1st on a speed WR (so that teams can't sell out on the run as much) and then fill in with JAG's.

 

 

Both teams will have to pay their QB's.  You can't invest everywhere AND have the Defensive talent Buffalo, and especially Baltimore, have. 

 

Ravens fans/Sports media can claim Lamar needs better pass blockers on the OL and a stud WR1, but that would mean revamping the Offense and a massive re-allocation of asset spending.  

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by SCBills

[billsfan89]

Lamar didn't have a great game and he made the mistake that sent the team home. That happens in the playoffs and it is fine to bash him. But he did get a playoff win this season which I think gets some pressure off of him. The Ravens need to find him a true WR1. They have a good TE in Andrews and Hollywood Brown is a nice burner but the rest of that receiving corps is ass. They need to find at least one additional good WR if not two. Lamar can be dynamic at times and that ground game can be potent. But until they find a way to get better at a pure passing scheme they will never give themselves a shot on longer down and distances consistently against better defenses. 

[y2zipper]

I don't think it's particularly fair to question his dedication since there hasn't really ever been anything reported about that. 

 

The big picture of the Ravens is that they are going to invest in Jackson and that's the right decision. He's been in the league as a starter for 2.5 years and won 81 percent of the time going into yesterday's game.  A stable organization isn't letting that go. They need tweaks more than overhaul.

 

Lamar Jackson was an above average passer last year and was closer to average this year with the difference being that the downfield passing game wasn't as good. It correlates with the loss of tight ends and the lack of dynamic playmakers. Moving to Dobbins is a good start and they so need to find another receiver. Playing a FB at TE and Dez Bryant aren't going to cut it there.

[Special K]

Our two favorite clowns 🤡 on Highly Questionable, Foxworth and Bomani, spent the whole segment about the game making excuses for Jackson, and saying he was just about to turn around the game when he got hurt....give me a break.

 

No credit whatsoever to the Bills for winning.

 

The only smart thing that Foxworth said was that we should be talking about how great both defenses played instead of the QB’s.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

22 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Here is the Ringer Article...

 

https://www.theringer.com/nfl-playoffs/2021/1/17/22235510/baltimore-ravens-go-bust-buffalo-bills

 

Part of it said Lamar needs the weapons Josh has and he'd be "better" & since Allen did it, of course Lamar can too.(paraphrasing)

 

Yep too lazy to look for others, which is why I posted....😜

 

I like Lamar as a person, just think he has had too many accolades.....

I mean, they did trot out 32 yo Dez Bryant 

[Inigo Montoya]

48 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Buffalo Bills:

 

Develop an elite passer in Josh Allen.

 

Build a top of the line pass blocking OL. (as a result, the run game can suffer - most lineman aren't great at both)

 

Invest draft capital and cap space into a top end WR room.

 

Can't invest heavy everywhere so we rely on 3rd Round Picks at RB1, RB2 & TE.  

 

 

Baltimore Ravens:

 

Build around an elite athlete at QB who is limited in the passing game.

 

Build a dominant run blocking OL. (as a result the pass pro suffers)

 

Invest heavily at the TE/RB position.

 

Spend a 1st on a speed WR (so that teams can't sell out on the run as much) and then fill in with JAG's.

 

 

Both teams will have to pay their QB's.  You can't invest everywhere AND have the Defensive talent Buffalo, and especially Baltimore, have. 

 

Ravens fans/Sports media can claim Lamar needs better pass blockers on the OL and a stud WR1, but that would mean revamping the Offense and a massive re-allocation of asset spending.  

 

Really nice analysis, SCBills, I hadn’t looked at it that way before.  I think you summed it up perfectly.  

[947]

52 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

The Ravens need to find him a true WR1. They have a good TE in Andrews and Hollywood Brown is a nice burner but the rest of that receiving corps is ass. They need to find at least one additional good WR if not two.

What WR would sign there? Not anybody who fits the WR1 description. Look at a guy like Allen Robinson, he's used to getting 150 targets/year, no way he's gonna go to Baltimore & get 100 or less. Hollywood Brown is not happy in that offense & already wants out. Playing in that offense kills WRs values for their next contract. Their only option to get better pass catchers is by draft or trade.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

 

Build around an elite athlete at QB who is limited in the passing game.

 

 

 

Mostly correct, IMO but I don't think Jackson is inherently limited in the passing game at all.

 

His ceiling as a passer is definitely top 10, IMO.

 

But the circumstances of his entry into the NFL were not conducive to his development as a passer.

 

Drafted late in round 1......kinda' found money not a huge investment...... by a win-now franchise with a playmaker depleted offense......and given an OC who was known for "high school" level passing concepts(per Trent Dilfer).

 

It was inevitable that they were going to use his magic feet at the expense of his development as a passer.

 

During the draft process I thought Jackson was most likely going to end up as the Bills pick.........Allen, Darnold, Mayfield and Rosen would all go top 5......farther than the Bills would be willing to trade up.    Turns out the league kinda' snoozed and let Allen and Jackson slide much too far but I watched all the Lamar Jackson game footage I could get and he really had excellent arm talent and decent natural accuracy.

[Big Gun]

4 hours ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

I don't think he is a terrible QB, but he is definitely not as good as the elite QB's he is often compared to. (including Allen). He is a unique talent, who will be able to exploit undisciplined Defenses for a few season with his speed, until he takes one too many hits and loses that edge.  I don't think he will ever be able to transform into an elite pocket passer, which is why he is just good, not elite.  

IMO, I think Jackson has reached his ceiling and it isn't nearly good enough to beat Mahomes and Allen in the playoffs or even make a deep run against better competition in the playoffs. Baltimore has to make a decision after 2021 about him and honestly I think they punt on Jackson and Roman. 

54 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Mostly correct, IMO but I don't think Jackson is inherently limited in the passing game at all.

 

His ceiling as a passer is definitely top 10, IMO.

 

But the circumstances of his entry into the NFL were not conducive to his development as a passer.

 

Drafted late in round 1......kinda' found money not a huge investment...... by a win-now franchise with a playmaker depleted offense......and given an OC who was known for "high school" level passing concepts(per Trent Dilfer).

 

It was inevitable that they were going to use his magic feet at the expense of his development as a passer.

 

During the draft process I thought Jackson was most likely going to end up as the Bills pick.........Allen, Darnold, Mayfield and Rosen would all go top 5......farther than the Bills would be willing to trade up.    Turns out the league kinda' snoozed and let Allen and Jackson slide much too far but I watched all the Lamar Jackson game footage I could get and he really had excellent arm talent and decent natural accuracy.

Disagree with bolded. Balt was dead last in the league in yards passing. He's never going to be top 10, probably not top 20 either.

 

What's funny is this was the Tyrod debate for 3 years, how'd that turn out!

Edited January 18, 2021 by Big Gun

[BADOLBILZ]

20 minutes ago, Big Gun said:

IMO, I think Jackson has reached his ceiling and it isn't nearly good enough to beat Mahomes and Allen in the playoffs or even make a deep run against better competition in the playoffs. Baltimore has to make a decision after 2021 about him and honestly I think they punt on Jackson and Roman. 

Disagree with bolded. Balt was dead last in the league in yards passing. He's never going to be top 10, probably not top 20 either.

 

What's funny is this was the Tyrod debate for 3 years, how'd that turn out!

 

 

The two Roman offense's were similar but the issue with Tyrod was that he didn't have that ceiling.

 

They aren't the same player.........Jackson has more arm talent and he showed excellent pro passer traits in college.

 

The Ravens passing offense is indeed terrible...........but lack of talent at the skill positions aside, Jackson has never been developed as a passer........put Allen in that offense for 3 years and he is probably still at a woeful level as a passer.   

 

 The Bills took the chance and put Allen in a very complex passing offense and took two full years of lumps developing him as a passer.........he was literally the least accurate starting QB in the NFL..........now he is tremendous........so I wouldn't be so quick to discount Jackson's potential based on the passing game results in probably the most run-oriented NFL offense in 40 years or more(and the most yardage produced rushing in NFL history). 

[jethro_tull]

6 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Mike Greenberg;  "The difference between Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson is Stefon Diggs"

 

I'm not here to throw stones at Greeny, he's one of my favorite ESPN hosts. Dan Orvlovsky, Ryan Clark, and Rex Ryan were on the segment this morning too and all of them agreed with that sentiment.  I think Rex will say anything to get some attention but I respect Orvlovsky's and Ryan Clark's football knowledge.  Throwing those qualifiers out there, I think the take that Jackson would be throwing the ball like Allen this year if he had Diggs is crazy.

 

Putting Diggs on any team in the NFL, no matter who the QB is, will instantly improve their passing game.  I think that's a given.  Diggs is unquestionably a top 3 WR in the NFL.  I think that Josh's game has improved with Diggs on the team and having Diggs on the field creates a ripple effect where now the defense's #2 DB is on John Brown, and it's harder to focus on Beasley in the slot and he can kill you over the middle and move the sticks.  That's 100% true, Diggs does all that for a team.

 

But Diggs is not responsible for the incredible leap in accuracy that Josh Allen has made over the last three years.  Show me the highlights of all the circus catches that Diggs has made this year because Allen threw a bad ball and Diggs bailed him out....  maybe one or two all season long?   Diggs is almost impossible to cover and gets open on every play, but Josh is just as good at putting the ball on the money, on time, and where only Diggs can get it.  

 

Does Diggs help Allen adjust protection schemes presnap?  Does Diggs help Allen change out of plays at the line of scrimmage to take advantage of what the defense is showing him?  Did Diggs get Allen to stop playing Hero Ball and stop making crucial turnovers in key moments?  Is Diggs responsible for Allen's improved pocket awareness and the way he just shifts around the pocket when the pass rush is on allowing him to make his amazing off schedule plays?   Is Diggs the reason Allen spent all off season during a pandemic working with a private QB coach completely revamping his throwing motion?

 

Admittedly, I don't know what Lamar Jackson does during his off season, but as a pretty locked in NFL fan I haven't heard about him doing anything similar to what Josh does during the off season.

 

When Lamar and Josh came into the NFL they were both incredible athletes who could run the ball and were iffy in the pass game.  I would even say that Lamar was a better passer than Josh year one.  Since that time what has happened?  Both Lamar and Josh are still fantastic running QBs, but now Josh has worked his tail off to become an elite passer.  He hasn't just gotten better, he has become elite as a passer.  The numbers bear that out.  Allen had the highest pocket completion percentage in the entire NFL this season and he seems even more dangerous when he is out of the pocket throwing the ball.

 

The simple truth of the matter is that Allen has evolved each year as a passer and Lamar has not.  It's intellectually lazy to look at Josh's progression and say that Diggs is the only reason Josh is a better overall QB than Lamar, or that Lamar would throw the ball like Josh if only he had a true #1 WR.  I like Greeney,  RC, and Orvlovsly, but I think they got caught giving a "hot take" on the fly without really taking the time to think about it first.  Josh Allen is a better passing QB than Lamar Jackson and its not because of Stefon Diggs.

 

 

I like Greenberg but when i heard him say that i involuntarily said fung you !  

[1ManRaid]

 

Jackson jock sniffers still vehemently insist that the pass was tipped and that it's not because he's a bad QB who stared down the receiver and just threw a bad pass, but I just noticed this clip that shows (from the 1:39 mark) that the ball was a duck right out of his hands and easily cleared Zimmer's hands as he stared it down right into Taron's waiting arms.

[LeviF]

You can hate on Roman's passing attack all you want, and he does correctly get some heat for it, but Lamar simply leaves yards and points on the field too often on the rare occasion that push really comes to shove for them.  Re-watching this game Lamar had some wide open guys behind the safeties that he simply never looked at.  Two of them were the same play, same situation.

 

Lamar is a great athlete and not a bad passer but as a QB?  Maybe it's how they developed him but right now he's very limited.

[BITE ME]

Jackson's win in the opening round of the playoffs meant something.  I will give him a pass on playing in the wind last weekend.  The question still exists though.  Can a guy with his skill set ever beat an elite passer like Mahomes or even Allen.

[billsfan1959]

On 1/18/2021 at 5:22 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

The Ravens passing offense is indeed terrible...........but lack of talent at the skill positions aside, Jackson has never been developed as a passer........put Allen in that offense for 3 years and he is probably still at a woeful level as a passer.

 

Isn't it pretty much the same passing offense and talent at the skill positions as when Jackson was having his MVP season last year - throwing for 36 touchdowns?