Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 21, 2021 Posted January 21, 2021 On 1/19/2021 at 5:51 AM, machine gun kelly said: Watson may want to push for a trade, but that doesn’t mean McNair will honor his request. He also is so expensive with his contract. The big mistake was in ownership telling him he would have influence over the coaching Mgmt hire. That should’ve never happened. I wouldn't say it should never have happened. A true Franchise QB is in a special class. You have to have a HC and OC who can work with him comfortably and vice versa or you're wasting everyone's time. In his presser today, McDermott said something to the effect of Daboll and Josh spend more time together than anyone else in the building - obviously, in the cause of not just putting together a good game plan, but ensuring Josh recognizes his keys for each play, when to audible, and to what. It's hard to work that closely and intensely with someone if you aren't comfortable. If the Bills are looking for a new OC at some point and Josh is The Man, it would be a mistake not to involve him and seek his input - not give him decision making authority, but seek his input. But, it's "Either Or, Not Both". Either the ownership should have never told him he would have input, OR they should have followed through with their promise. 10 minutes ago, Bferra13 said: Agreed, I think it was Dick Vermeil that said Watson needs a diaper change. Kind of agree with him. With that being said, I dont know all the circumstances obviously. None of us do. I would love to know where/when that was said because it doesn't sound like something Dick Vermeil would say. Edit: OK, I found it, and you are correct, but Wow! Vermeil is right that Watson's contract doesn't say he gets a say in who coaches or who leads the organization, but Vermeil was always very much a man of his word from everything I knew and if McNair gave Watson his word, Vermeil would be the first to say he should keep it. That just very much comes across as "Shut up and Dribble" and either Vermeil was missing some info, or he may at 84 be out of step. We let junior colleagues interview lab head candidates and sought their input - it didn't mean they were making or driving the decision, but I know of 1 guy who came well recommended and wasn't hired because the input received was 'please no, he was so condescending to us." 1
mannc Posted January 21, 2021 Posted January 21, 2021 20 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Wait, Wat? Where heard? I think read it on ESPN or NFL.com. The author concluded that the Browns probably will pick up Baker’s option, but that it was not a foregone conclusion..
Doc Posted January 21, 2021 Posted January 21, 2021 8 minutes ago, Bferra13 said: Agreed, I think it was Dick Vermeil that said Watson needs a diaper change. Kind of agree with him. With that being said, I dont know all the circumstances obviously. None of us do. True none of us know the circumstances. But if I were in their shoes, there's no way I'm eating $21.6M in signing bonus paid to him just a scant 4-1/2 months ago just because he's now coming to the realization that they're going to suck for awhile and/or that the organization is racist and/or led by a cult figure. He'll be dealt on their terms, not his, because it's not like they were coming off the playoffs or even a winning season.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 21, 2021 Posted January 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, Doc said: True none of us know the circumstances. But if I were in their shoes, there's no way I'm eating $21.6M in signing bonus paid to him just a scant 4-1/2 months ago just because he's now coming to the realization that they're going to suck for awhile and/or that the organization is racist and/or led by a cult figure. He'll be dealt on their terms, not his, because it's not like they were coming off the playoffs or even a winning season. I don't think he'll be dealt, myself. I think the Texans will try to work it out with him, but ultimately tell him to report and honor his contract or take it to court. 1
Saxum Posted January 21, 2021 Posted January 21, 2021 I think he may be acting up to try to get cut and keep the bonus. 1
Doc Posted January 21, 2021 Posted January 21, 2021 10 minutes ago, Limeaid said: I think he may be acting up to try to get cut and keep the bonus. No chance. 1
Saxum Posted January 21, 2021 Posted January 21, 2021 Just now, Doc said: No chance. I did not say it will work but other players have been successful. 2
QLBillsFan Posted January 21, 2021 Posted January 21, 2021 12 minutes ago, Limeaid said: I did not say it will work but other players have been successful. Rare that it happens. He’s been good guy off the field. In the NFL those are really bad issues such as domestic or general craziness-AB. He really has no leverage unlike the NBA. I don’t think Texans can win the PR damage of a trade of a top 8 QB or get enough value.
GunnerBill Posted January 21, 2021 Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I wouldn't say it should never have happened. A true Franchise QB is in a special class. You have to have a HC and OC who can work with him comfortably and vice versa or you're wasting everyone's time. In his presser today, McDermott said something to the effect of Daboll and Josh spend more time together than anyone else in the building - obviously, in the cause of not just putting together a good game plan, but ensuring Josh recognizes his keys for each play, when to audible, and to what. It's hard to work that closely and intensely with someone if you aren't comfortable. If the Bills are looking for a new OC at some point and Josh is The Man, it would be a mistake not to involve him and seek his input - not give him decision making authority, but seek his input. But, it's "Either Or, Not Both". Either the ownership should have never told him he would have input, OR they should have followed through with their promise. I would love to know where/when that was said because it doesn't sound like something Dick Vermeil would say. Edit: OK, I found it, and you are correct, but Wow! Vermeil is right that Watson's contract doesn't say he gets a say in who coaches or who leads the organization, but Vermeil was always very much a man of his word from everything I knew and if McNair gave Watson his word, Vermeil would be the first to say he should keep it. That just very much comes across as "Shut up and Dribble" and either Vermeil was missing some info, or he may at 84 be out of step. We let junior colleagues interview lab head candidates and sought their input - it didn't mean they were making or driving the decision, but I know of 1 guy who came well recommended and wasn't hired because the input received was 'please no, he was so condescending to us." I would just add (probably repeating myself but hey, what's new?) that I think we should distinguish GM hire from HC hire. On the former I struggle to see an argument for a franchise QB having a say in the decision - but that is what Cal McNair promised and so he either shouldn't have promised or should have delivered. On the latter, however, it is perfectly normal for a franchise QB to have input into a Head Coaching decision. Rodgers did with LaFleur and Goff did with McVay. Not that they made the final decision but both franchises had the finalists for their jobs meet their Quarterback before they made a hire. To be honest regardless of what McNair promised it would have been negligent to make that decision without some input from Watson IMO. And that is for all the reasons you state - they are gonna have to work very closely together. EDIT: agree also about hiring practices outside of football. You can't be hired to the senior grades of our Government service now without going through a "people panel" of junior grades. It definitely has a place. Edited January 21, 2021 by GunnerBill
SCBills Posted January 21, 2021 Posted January 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I would just add (probably repeating myself but hey, what's new?) that I think we should distinguish GM hire from HC hire. On the former I struggle to see an argument for a franchise QB having a say in the decision - but that is what Cal McNair promised and so he either shouldn't have promised or should have delivered. On the latter, however, it is perfectly normal for a franchise QB to have input into a Head Coaching decision. Rodgers did with LaFleur and Goff did with McVay. Not that they made the final decision but both franchises had the finalists for their jobs meet their Quarterback before they made a hire. To be honest regardless of what McNair promised it would have been negligent to make that decision without some input from Watson IMO. And that is for all the reasons you state - they are gonna have to work very closely together. EDIT: agree also about hiring practices outside of football. You can't be hired to the senior grades of our Government service now without going through a "people panel" of junior grades. It definitely has a place. Whatever input Rodgers had in the hiring process, he still lobbied for a playmaker after that and then they went out and drafted a 1st Round QB. If this is how Watson acts as the face of a franchise, posting drama-stirring tweets like an emo kid and “liking” content to create tension, then I don’t blame them for going back on their word of involving him in decision making.
GunnerBill Posted January 21, 2021 Posted January 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, SCBills said: Whatever input Rodgers had in the hiring process, he still lobbied for a playmaker after that and then they went out and drafted a 1st Round QB. If this is how Watson acts as the face of a franchise, posting drama-stirring tweets like an emo kid and “liking” content to create tension, then I don’t blame them for going back on their word of involving him in decision making. I agree Watson needs to get in the building and have the argument rather than refusing to answer calls and posting cryptic tweets. He absolutely has a right to be ticked off in my view but he needs to respond a little better to it. 2
mannc Posted January 21, 2021 Posted January 21, 2021 6 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said: It's not. Likely will need 4 1sts Depends how high the picks are. Obviously the 2 or 3 overall pick is worth quite a bit more than a first from the Seahawks or Rams...
T master Posted January 21, 2021 Posted January 21, 2021 On 1/17/2021 at 1:24 PM, Miyagi-Do Karate said: Praying for the Eagles. That seems to make the most sense. Texans would be absolute idiots to trade him within the conference. Well by the owner sitting back and them letting Obrien do all that he did while there I'm thinking that it wouldn't be all that far fetched if they did do something like that to try and some how right the ship the owner should have stepped in and never let D hop out of the building and fired Obrien immediately just for thinking of letting him go . All's D hop ever did was show up and do his job as 1 of if not the best WR in the NFL . Seems to be as great of a person as he is a player .
YoloinOhio Posted January 21, 2021 Posted January 21, 2021 19 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said: Jets have 2 1sts this year and 2 1sts next. So it can happen, just not all in one year. Or Jets trade their 2022 1sts for 1 2020 1st, and have 3 this year. That's the easiest part of the deal. So he would be going to an even worse team who then will lack the assets to build around him? Pretty sure he has to sign off on any trade given his no trade clause.
fergie's ire Posted January 21, 2021 Posted January 21, 2021 10 hours ago, mannc said: I think read it on ESPN or NFL.com. The author concluded that the Browns probably will pick up Baker’s option, but that it was not a foregone conclusion.. This maybe? https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/baker-mayfield-contract-fifth-year-cleveland-01etz80zjejc
mannc Posted January 21, 2021 Posted January 21, 2021 10 minutes ago, fergie's ire said: This maybe? https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/baker-mayfield-contract-fifth-year-cleveland-01etz80zjejc That’s not the one, but the analysis is similar...the one I read was written after the KC game.
DrDawkinstein Posted January 21, 2021 Posted January 21, 2021 32 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: So he would be going to an even worse team who then will lack the assets to build around him? Pretty sure he has to sign off on any trade given his no trade clause. To be clear, my opinion is: 1. Watson would be dumb to go to the Jets which have equally trash ownership 2. The Jets would be dumb to waste all that draft capital on one player when they have so much to build. But that wasnt the point. Like all WEO conversations, he completely derailed it in order to be "right" about something he wasnt even really wrong about, or shouldnt have been a big deal. He said that the Jets didnt have the picks to pay the price tag. I showed that they do. Whether or not they should wasnt the point.
TheFunPolice Posted January 21, 2021 Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, mannc said: That’s not the one, but the analysis is similar...the one I read was written after the KC game. Baker is just a guy who hands off and makes a few throws here and there. Nothing special or dynamic. Burrow is already better, IMO. Lamar is much more dynamic. Browns have the 3rd best QB in that division, now that Big Ben looks like his arm retired. Edited January 21, 2021 by TheFunPolice 1
GunnerBill Posted January 21, 2021 Posted January 21, 2021 Related and for the people who think Watson has no right to a role in the HC hire..... the Bears are involving Khalil Mack in their DC hiring process. This is pretty common place in the NFL now when you have stars.
benderbender Posted January 21, 2021 Posted January 21, 2021 The trend is toward player mobility and empowerment. The you only have to look at Le'Veon Bell and Antonio Brown to see that the bell has already been rung. Watson has a sterling reputation both as a player and in the community. The Texans incoming HC has Watson’s public unhappiness and a practically untradable contract in Watt to contend with. Watson may not have the contract leverage, but he’s got fan/public support.
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