GunnerBill Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 3 minutes ago, Doc said: I agree about trust. But I find it funny that he thinks he knows anything and should be consulted on GM and/or coaching hires. I don't think a franchise QB has any business being involved in a GM search myself. I feel differently about a HC. It is pretty common place these days that teams looking for HCs with franchise QBs take soundings from their Quarterback. But again, comes back to don't promise what you are not willing to deliver.
H2o Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: It is about trust. Football players are still humans. If you don't trust your bosses that is a problem. As I said the one point where Deshaun needs to do better is he needs to confront these issues and not ignore them. Answer the phone, get back in the building and be completely and brutally frank and honest. And this goes along with part of the point I was making in my previous posts. There have been more than a couple of flags raised in his time there. The most recent one was shipping out one of the best WR's in the league for a Yoohoo and a bag of peanuts. If that doesn't tell you, "hey, maybe I should start trying to plan my future elsewhere if I want to win" then I don't know what does. What did he do instead? He made sure he got that up front money and signed that big contract. Now that he's got that money he feels entitled that he should have more of a say, promised, suggested, mentioned in passing, or otherwise. Now the decisions being made are a problem. Where was he at when they traded Nuk? All he did was say he was hurt. Why? Because he had not signed that big $$$ contract yet. I know they play two different positions and the situations are slightly different, but this reminds me of the NY Giants and Odell Beckham. A star player gets big money, starts making situations more about themselves than the organization as a whole, and ends up out the door.
GunnerBill Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 Just now, H2o said: And this goes along with part of the point I was making in my previous posts. There have been more than a couple of flags raised in his time there. The most recent one was shipping out one of the best WR's in the league for a Yoohoo and a bag of peanuts. If that doesn't tell you, "hey, maybe I should start trying to plan my future elsewhere if I want to win" then I don't know what does. What did he do instead? He made sure he got that up front money and signed that big contract. Now that he's got that money he feels entitled that he should have more of a say, promised, suggested, mentioned in passing, or otherwise. Now the decisions being made are a problem. Where was he at when they traded Nuk? All he did was say he was hurt. Why? Because he had not signed that big $$$ contract yet. I know they play two different positions and the situations are slightly different, but this reminds me of the NY Giants and Odell Beckham. A star player gets big money, starts making situations more about themselves than the organization as a whole, and ends up out the door. No I don't think the decisions are the problem. And that is not what the SI article said either. The problem is the trust.
Doc Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 33 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I don't think a franchise QB has any business being involved in a GM search myself. I feel differently about a HC. It is pretty common place these days that teams looking for HCs with franchise QBs take soundings from their Quarterback. But again, comes back to don't promise what you are not willing to deliver. I think most everyone would agree with that, especially the Texans. But once Watson unilaterally inserted himself in the decision-making process, and the Texans had no intention of accommodating him, he was going to be pissed off no matter what. Better to get who they wanted and then deal with the fallout than risk losing the guy they wanted because Watson might have made a stink about it.
GunnerBill Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 1 minute ago, Doc said: I think most everyone would agree with that, especially the Texans. But once Watson unilaterally inserted himself in the decision-making process, and the Texans had no intention of accommodating him, he was going to be pissed off no matter what. Better to get who they wanted and then deal with the fallout than risk losing the guy they wanted because Watson might have made a stink about it. I don't think he did unilaterally involve himself. That is not the story as I have heard it. He went for dinner with McNair where he expressed frustration over the team's season and McNair offered to involve him in the searches. That is the story as I understand it.
mannc Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 48 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I don't think a franchise QB has any business being involved in a GM search myself. I feel differently about a HC. It is pretty common place these days that teams looking for HCs with franchise QBs take soundings from their Quarterback. But again, comes back to don't promise what you are not willing to deliver. Well, it’s kind of an unprecedented situation. Usually having a QB like Watson assures that you won’t be shopping for a new HC and/or GM, but O’Brian’s incompetence simply beggared belief. Do you doubt that Kraft would have consulted Brady if Belichick had suddenly retired a few years ago, or that KC would talk to Mahomes about the new coach if Andy Reid called it quits?
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 I thought they canned BoB.... guess the decision making acumen stayed?
Doc Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I don't think he did unilaterally involve himself. That is not the story as I have heard it. He went for dinner with McNair where he expressed frustration over the team's season and McNair offered to involve him in the searches. That is the story as I understand it. There are always 3 sides to every story.
GunnerBill Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 Just now, Doc said: There are always 3 sides to every story. Maybe the way it has been reported is wrong. But I have seen no evidence to contradict it and McNair has made no effort to deny it. 2 minutes ago, mannc said: Well, it’s kind of an unprecedented situation. Usually having a QB like Watson assures that you won’t be shopping for a new HC and/or GM, but O’Brian’s incompetence simply beggared belief. Do you doubt that Kraft would have consulted Brady if Belichick had suddenly retired a few years ago, or that KC would talk to Mahomes about the new coach if Andy Reid called it quits? For sure you always consult your franchise QB on the coach. Hell the Rams consulted Goff on the back of a bad rookie year. It is the GM where I am a bit more questioning what value the QB can add to the decision.
mannc Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Maybe the way it has been reported is wrong. But I have seen no evidence to contradict it and McNair has made no effort to deny it. For sure you always consult your franchise QB on the coach. Hell the Rams consulted Goff on the back of a bad rookie year. It is the GM where I am a bit more questioning what value the QB can add to the decision. Well, their last coach was also the GM, so...
GunnerBill Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 Just now, mannc said: Well, their last coach was also the GM, so... Haha yes. I think even Easterby knows that didn't work.
billsfan89 Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 Looking around the league and right now I see compelling offers from Miami and the Jets. Miami can offer the most offering pick 3, 20, 35 and a future 1st and 3rd in 2022 and a future 2nd in 2023 along with additional mid-round selections. The Jets can offer pick 2, 23, 34 and a future 1st and 3rd and additional mid-round selections. I hear the 49ers mentioned a lot but I am not sure what they really have to offer. They can offer up pick 12 and a pick in the 40's along with Jimmy G and future 1st round picks. But I would rather have higher picks now and I am not really sold on Jimmy G as anything more than a fringe starter. I guess the 49ers could include Bosa, pick 12, their 2nd and 3rd rounders in 2021 and a 1st and 3rd in 2022. But that then leaves you in no mans land at QB. It will be interesting to see where Watson goes. I think they will want as large a haul as they could possibly get for him while also either landing a QB or landing a high enough draft pick to get a QB.
Chaos Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 15 hours ago, mannc said: Not that simple...Baker and Murray are much cheaper than Watson and are viewed, rightly or wrongly, as franchise QBs by those teams. Arizona has built their whole team around Murray. The real problem is that I doubt Houston wants either one, at least not without multiple high picks thrown in. And yes, Watson is definitely top 5, although he’s behind Allen and Mahomes right now. If Watson is truly at another level it would be insane for Cleveland and Arizona to pass on the opportunity. You carved out 7 teams. Now you are up to nine. Put it in a historical perspective. Carson Palmer was a very good QB for the Bengals. His career overlapped Brady, P. Manning, B. Rothlisberger & Drew Brees. At any point in Palmers career if one of those 4 QBs had a huge fallout with his team and came on the market, the Bengals would have beem willing to part with Palmer and other compensation to get one of the "Big four". You can't have it all ways. Murray, Mayfield and Watson are either all similar interchangeable talent levels "Franchise QB" or Watson is on a different level than Murray and Mayfied. If they are all on the same level, than Watson with his fat contract is an albatross. If Watson is in the elite of the elite level, than both teams would be wise to part with their Carson Palmer equivalents and get a big four equivalent. It comes back to the same thing. Watson is very good, he is not elite.
mannc Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 29 minutes ago, Chaos said: If Watson is truly at another level it would be insane for Cleveland and Arizona to pass on the opportunity. You carved out 7 teams. Now you are up to nine. Put it in a historical perspective. Carson Palmer was a very good QB for the Bengals. His career overlapped Brady, P. Manning, B. Rothlisberger & Drew Brees. At any point in Palmers career if one of those 4 QBs had a huge fallout with his team and came on the market, the Bengals would have beem willing to part with Palmer and other compensation to get one of the "Big four". You can't have it all ways. Murray, Mayfield and Watson are either all similar interchangeable talent levels "Franchise QB" or Watson is on a different level than Murray and Mayfied. If they are all on the same level, than Watson with his fat contract is an albatross. If Watson is in the elite of the elite level, than both teams would be wise to part with their Carson Palmer equivalents and get a big four equivalent. It comes back to the same thing. Watson is very good, he is not elite. I may have been wrong about my assessment of Mayfield and the Browns. Apparently the Browns aren’t even sure they are going to pick up Baker’s 5th year option. Fact remains, they would have to send Houston a lot more than Mayfield (if Houston even wants him) to get Watson.
Solomon Grundy Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 I’m saying it first, keep an eye on Philadelphia!!
BITE ME Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 If Watson wants out he can come here and try to beat out Matt Barkley for the backup spot. I think the Bills might be willing to send Houston Jake Fromm and a 2022 7th rounder. Worst case we put Watson on the practice squad. We could us a good scout QB. 1
Chaos Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Solomon Grundy said: I’m saying it first, keep an eye on Philadelphia!! I said that as a possibility earlier in the thread.
Pokebball Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 Read an article in the Atlantic that mentioned 5 possible trades for Watson. The 5 teams were the Jets, Dolphins, 49ers, Falcons and Lions. Frankly, I surprised to see the value each team would give in a potential trade. At any rate, I think it would be great to get Watson in the AFCE. 1 1 4
GunnerBill Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 4 hours ago, Chaos said: If Watson is truly at another level it would be insane for Cleveland and Arizona to pass on the opportunity. You carved out 7 teams. Now you are up to nine. Put it in a historical perspective. Carson Palmer was a very good QB for the Bengals. His career overlapped Brady, P. Manning, B. Rothlisberger & Drew Brees. At any point in Palmers career if one of those 4 QBs had a huge fallout with his team and came on the market, the Bengals would have beem willing to part with Palmer and other compensation to get one of the "Big four". You can't have it all ways. Murray, Mayfield and Watson are either all similar interchangeable talent levels "Franchise QB" or Watson is on a different level than Murray and Mayfied. If they are all on the same level, than Watson with his fat contract is an albatross. If Watson is in the elite of the elite level, than both teams would be wise to part with their Carson Palmer equivalents and get a big four equivalent. It comes back to the same thing. Watson is very good, he is not elite. I don't think Mayfield or Murray are close to interchangeable with Watson. I think that is frankly a borderline crazy opinion.
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