Trump Impeachment 2.0

[TBBills]

7 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Yep.  

 

 

I just have no clue why people would even fathom our elections are rigged now.  No idea.  

You need to start reading the articles... You keep doing this to yourself.

[Motorin']

10 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

A more extreme approach might be to refuse to mount a defense based on the argument the legislative branch under the Senate has no authority to "try" or "impeach" a private citizen.  Therefore, any legal actions must be entertained in Federal court under the authority of the judiciary branch.  As the articles of impeachment were delivered from the House to the Senate after the Biden term started and the Trump term ended this position has some validity as the law is one part legality and two parts process. 

 

Article I, section 3 of the Constitution states the Senate has sole power over impeachment proceedings of the President.  But he's not the President.  So the issue may be destined for a Supreme Court ruling. 

 

And let's not yank each others chains here.  The sole purpose of the impeachment is not to address some "insurrection" charge.  It's politically motivated to make sure Trump cannot hold any office, or specifically run for the presidency in 2024.  That possibility scares the crap out of the Democrats and many Republicans who want to see him gone.  I really can't foresee that happening but I guess they figure if the opportunity comes along to prevent it why take a chance?  

Impeachment isn't a process to remove an official from office, though removal is a consquence of conviction. Impeachment is a process to bring criminal charges against an elected official. And it is the only process that exists to bring criminal charges against Presidents.

 

A President or former President cannot be brought up on criminal charges by any body but the US Congress for acts that transpired while in official capacity in office. So the argument that a former President can't be Impeached for crimes while in office is bogus. It is the only way it can happen. 

Edited February 5, 2021 by Motorin'

[Unforgiven]

 

More peach mints!

[Doc Brown]

18 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

And let's not yank each others chains here.  The sole purpose of the impeachment is not to address some "insurrection" charge.  It's politically motivated to make sure Trump cannot hold any office, or specifically run for the presidency in 2024.  That possibility scares the crap out of the Democrats and many Republicans who want to see him gone.  I really can't foresee that happening but I guess they figure if the opportunity comes along to prevent it why take a chance?  

That's downplaying it.  The purpose of impeachment for Trump is to prevent some rogue president from doing something similar in the future.  It's to safeguard and strengthen our democracy. 

 

Let's say Obama lost reelection to Romney and refused to accept the results of the election.  He immediately started spreading disinformation for months to his supporters that it was "stolen" from him without any evidence that could past muster in court.  He then used his cult of personality to encourage his most fanatical followers to march to the capital building to "stop the steal" where results of the election were about to be certified.  Five people die and one of our most recognizable buildings in our great democracy was defaced.  I'd want him impeached asap.  That's something that just can't be brushed aside.  Without Trump's rhetoric and gaslighting it wouldn't have happened.  Period. 

[JaCrispy]

What if everything was conspiracy theory...and it was just a matter of which one you chose to believe?😉

Edited February 6, 2021 by JaCrispy

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

On 2/5/2021 at 9:15 AM, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

You can have a rational argument with some people

 

 

[Tenhigh]

20 hours ago, Warcodered said:

They could try and take advantage of this situation to try and rework school to work better, I mean summer vacation doesn't make a whole lot of sense anymore.

I hear that argument and my head understands it but my heart HATES it. Kids truly live between June and September.

 

Frankly, I think that a long summer vacation is good for the soul, regardless of age.  It's something our European counterparts understand much better than Americans do.

 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Tenhigh

[Warcodered]

3 minutes ago, Tenhigh said:

I hear that argument and my head understands it but my heart HATES it. Kids truly live between June and September.

 

Frankly, I think that a long summer vacation is good for the soul, regardless of age.  It's something our European counterparts understand much better than Americans do. 

I mean that's how we've all been raised and has been a part of our culture but if we made a change then those multiple shorter breaks across the year would take on that identity. The problem with a long summer break is that it's so long that the kids forget the things they were just learning which makes it so they have to waste time relearning things at the beginning of each year. I mean I love my summer memories but in a Country that's been sliding down the ladder academically wise taking a more focused approach is probably a good idea.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

9 minutes ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said:

 

 

The bell at the end of the initial session was outstanding. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

20 hours ago, Motorin' said:

Impeachment isn't a process to remove an official from office, though removal is a consquence of conviction. Impeachment is a process to bring criminal charges against an elected official. And it is the only process that exists to bring criminal charges against Presidents.

 

A President or former President cannot be brought up on criminal charges by any body but the US Congress for acts that transpired while in official capacity in office. So the argument that a former President can't be Impeached for crimes while in office is bogus. It is the only way it can happen. 

A former President cannot be tried by the Senate.  Taking the view to an extreme, under this interpretation former Presidents Clinton, Bush, or Obama can be tried for "crimes" committed during their terms.  And if this is true then all these lawsuits and charges against Trump working their way through the Court system should be thrown out and referred to the House for consideration of indictments.  Only a sitting President can be charged and tried.  That's the purpose of the Article/Section in the Constitution.  But you have your interpretation and I have mine.  I expect if the issue is pressed it will be up to the Supreme Court to provide their interpretation and ruling of Article I.

[Motorin']

25 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

A former President cannot be tried by the Senate.  Taking the view to an extreme, under this interpretation former Presidents Clinton, Bush, or Obama can be tried for "crimes" committed during their terms.  And if this is true then all these lawsuits and charges against Trump working their way through the Court system should be thrown out and referred to the House for consideration of indictments.  Only a sitting President can be charged and tried.  That's the purpose of the Article/Section in the Constitution.  But you have your interpretation and I have mine.  I expect if the issue is pressed it will be up to the Supreme Court to provide their interpretation and ruling of Article I.

 

Obama, Bush and Clinton could have been tried for crimes committed as President, had the House determined they had committed crimes to be tried for. 

 

Many of the lawsuits against Trump you reference stem from his alleged behavior as a private citizen prior to his term as President. Are you claiming that Trump is being sued for acts as President? Or that being President precludes you from any legal culpability from actions prior to holding office? 

 

In any event, the Supreme Court may well be asked to weigh in. That's their role in Constitutionally ambiguous situations. I'll tell you one thing that the proponents of Impeachment have on their side, and that's precident. Impeachment post office has been used to try Governors and Senators for crimes in the waning days of their term. We shall see if the Supreme Court says it can't happen to a President. 

 

Setting aside whether you believe Trump did, or did not incite a riot in attempt the intimidate the VP and Senate to overturn the results of the election, what should happen to an outgoing one term President that does incite a violent riot to try to alter the certification of a Presidential election? 

 

 

[Tenhigh]

6 hours ago, Warcodered said:

I mean that's how we've all been raised and has been a part of our culture but if we made a change then those multiple shorter breaks across the year would take on that identity. The problem with a long summer break is that it's so long that the kids forget the things they were just learning which makes it so they have to waste time relearning things at the beginning of each year. I mean I love my summer memories but in a Country that's been sliding down the ladder academically wise taking a more focused approach is probably a good idea.

Like I said, I understand it, I just don't like it

[T master]

History will show it's bogus and unconstitutional he is no longer in office just haters being haters !! Total BS ...

[SoTier]

20 hours ago, Tenhigh said:

I hear that argument and my head understands it but my heart HATES it. Kids truly live between June and September.

 

Frankly, I think that a long summer vacation is good for the soul, regardless of age.  It's something our European counterparts understand much better than Americans do.

 

 

 

 

As an ex-teacher, I will second this.  Teaching is a mentally exhausting job ... as many parents have been finding out dealing with only 1 or 2 or 3 kids.   Most teachers regularly deal with 20 or more most of the day.

 

As a retiree who worked most of my career in IT, I will also second this.   Days off are nice, but weeks off are better.   The really sad thing is that so many American workers either have only limited vacation time (like 2 weeks max) or, worse, earn more time off that they can't use because of the demands of their jobs.  When I retired, I got paid for 6 or 7 weeks of vacation time that I never got to use.

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

As an ex-teacher, I will second this.  Teaching is a mentally exhausting job ... as many parents have been finding out dealing with only 1 or 2 or 3 kids.   Most teachers regularly deal with 20 or more most of the day.

 

As a retiree who worked most of my career in IT, I will also second this.   Days off are nice, but weeks off are better.   The really sad thing is that so many American workers either have only limited vacation time (like 2 weeks max) or, worse, earn more time off that they can't use because of the demands of their jobs.  When I retired, I got paid for 6 or 7 weeks of vacation time that I never got to use.

 

Ya it is indeed a hard job. That's for sure. Always credit teachers for trying there best.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

As an ex-teacher, I will second this.  Teaching is a mentally exhausting job ... as many parents have been finding out dealing with only 1 or 2 or 3 kids.   Most teachers regularly deal with 20 or more most of the day.

 

As a retiree who worked most of my career in IT, I will also second this.   Days off are nice, but weeks off are better.   The really sad thing is that so many American workers either have only limited vacation time (like 2 weeks max) or, worse, earn more time off that they can't use because of the demands of their jobs.  When I retired, I got paid for 6 or 7 weeks of vacation time that I never got to use.

 

Having weekends off is big, at least for me.  I took a 50% paycut to take a job in a surgery center where I had few late nights and weekends, call or holidays.  Sure I got a lot of vacation but I'd rather have worked and made more.  But that darn wife...

[daz28]

The Senate needs to understand it's not up to them to vote not guilty, because they believe it's unconstitutional.  They are now JURORS like it or not.  Their job is to listen to the merits of the case, and vote on them.  Sure is going to be fun to hear what witnesses can do at a trial if ALLOWED to speak

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

On 2/6/2021 at 3:29 AM, Doc Brown said:

That's downplaying it.  The purpose of impeachment for Trump is to prevent some rogue president from doing something similar in the future.  It's to safeguard and strengthen our democracy. 

 

Let's say Obama lost reelection to Romney and refused to accept the results of the election.  He immediately started spreading disinformation for months to his supporters that it was "stolen" from him without any evidence that could past muster in court.  He then used his cult of personality to encourage his most fanatical followers to march to the capital building to "stop the steal" where results of the election were about to be certified.  Five people die and one of our most recognizable buildings in our great democracy was defaced.  I'd want him impeached asap.  That's something that just can't be brushed aside.  Without Trump's rhetoric and gaslighting it wouldn't have happened.  Period. 

That’s patently absurd.  
 

Let’s say Obama won, twice, and there was no coordinated and concerted effort to destroy him and by extension, invalidate the votes of tens of millions of his supporters.  Then let’s assume people who were not pro-Obama didn’t sit around in a gigantic circle jerk while Obama was painted as treasonous in a coordinated smear campaign complete with a bunch of partisan hacks performing a multi-year colonoscopy on an international scale that included swat teams tipping off reporters to early morning raids.  
 

Then let’s assume when that attempt to destroy Obama AND invalidate the results of an election failed, miserably, the anti-Obama crowd, crestfallen because they had been duped, were offered a second attempt to destroy the opposition using innuendo and he-heard-that-he-said-that-she-saw speculation to remove him from office.  Let’s assume at the same time that a tape emerged of Obama’s opponent, the heir apparent, on tape bragging like an aging frat boy about how he, personally, strong-armed a foreign government to alter the outcome of an investigation that might have been harmful to his child, and by extension his own political aspirations.

 

 Let’s assume again, the anti-Obama crowd was perfectly comfortable with that new, improved program called DestrOy Obama 2.0.  Then let’s assume a global pandemic was unleashed by a foreign and often hostile adversary, and on Obama’s watch, as he balanced shutting down the economy and destroying the lives of millions of Americans, the opposition screamed that shutting down the country and destroying the lives of millions of Americans they screamed that the only caveat was that protesting in the streets by millions of pre-infected, post-infected, and in the throes of being affected citizens was apparently the ONLY COVID-immune act that might be safely undertaken.  
 

Finally, let’s assume that all along the way, as the opposition to Obama lobbed charges of treason and criminality, they also waged a 5 year long call for violence and insurrection using words like “treason”, “coup”, “illegitimate”, “get in their faces”, “burn it down”, and “the intelligence community has six ways to Sunday” to take you out.  Oh, and let’s pretend that a full year of allowing and encouraging rioting, death and destruction in the streets including routinely targeting law enforcement specifically had absolutely no impact on the crazy anarchist element that is, was, and likely always will be part of the fabric of society. 
 

Oh, let’s pretend too that Obama’s calls for peaceful demonstration were actullay painted as calls for insurrection and violence, and the calls by the opposition party for death destruction and violence were painted as peaceful American politics.
 

Of course, none of that happened, because the people that opposed Obama sat about by the tens of millions, patiently waiting for the opportunity to cast a vote for another candidate.  On the flip side, the tens of millions of Biden supporters sat by willingly allowing the dem party to create something, anything to wrest power away. 
 

The emboldened anarchist is directly tied to the leadership of the modern democrat party and the citizens who begged for release on issues like treason that were never there.  

[SoCal Deek]

People, please. It’s just not that complicated. You had a bunch of people who watched night after night after night where Americans were allowed to riot, burn, vandalize, occupy, loot, attack, and in some cases kill peace officers with virtually no push back or criticism. And those people watched politicians praise the rioters and even kneel in the rotunda. What did everyone expect would be the result of that inaction? We taught our own people that this sort of ‘mostly peaceful protest was now the norm’.

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

That’s patently absurd.  
 

Let’s say Obama won, twice, and there was no coordinated and concerted effort to destroy him and by extension, invalidate the votes of tens of millions of his supporters.  Then let’s assume people who were not pro-Obama didn’t sit around in a gigantic circle jerk while Obama was painted as treasonous in a coordinated smear campaign complete with a bunch of partisan hacks performing a multi-year colonoscopy on an international scale that included swat teams tipping off reporters to early morning raids.  
 

Then let’s assume when that attempt to destroy Obama AND invalidate the results of an election failed, miserably, the anti-Obama crowd, crestfallen because they had been duped, were offered a second attempt to destroy the opposition using innuendo and he-heard-that-he-said-that-she-saw speculation to remove him from office.  Let’s assume at the same time that a tape emerged of Obama’s opponent, the heir apparent, on tape bragging like an aging frat boy about how he, personally, strong-armed a foreign government to alter the outcome of an investigation that might have been harmful to his child, and by extension his own political aspirations.

 

 Let’s assume again, the anti-Obama crowd was perfectly comfortable with that new, improved program called DestrOy Obama 2.0.  Then let’s assume a global pandemic was unleashed by a foreign and often hostile adversary, and on Obama’s watch, as he balanced shutting down the economy and destroying the lives of millions of Americans, the opposition screamed that shutting down the country and destroying the lives of millions of Americans they screamed that the only caveat was that protesting in the streets by millions of pre-infected, post-infected, and in the throes of being affected citizens was apparently the ONLY COVID-immune act that might be safely undertaken.  
 

Finally, let’s assume that all along the way, as the opposition to Obama lobbed charges of treason and criminality, they also waged a 5 year long call for violence and insurrection using words like “treason”, “coup”, “illegitimate”, “get in their faces”, “burn it down”, and “the intelligence community has six ways to Sunday” to take you out.  Oh, and let’s pretend that a full year of allowing and encouraging rioting, death and destruction in the streets including routinely targeting law enforcement specifically had absolutely no impact on the crazy anarchist element that is, was, and likely always will be part of the fabric of society. 
 

Oh, let’s pretend too that Obama’s calls for peaceful demonstration were actullay painted as calls for insurrection and violence, and the calls by the opposition party for death destruction and violence were painted as peaceful American politics.
 

Of course, none of that happened, because the people that opposed Obama sat about by the tens of millions, patiently waiting for the opportunity to cast a vote for another candidate.  On the flip side, the tens of millions of Biden supporters sat by willingly allowing the dem party to create something, anything to wrest power away. 
 

The emboldened anarchist is directly tied to the leadership of the modern democrat party and the citizens who begged for release on issues like treason that were never there.  

You seem like a rationally poster in most other threads but I’m not going to respond to someone who believes all that.  There’s another message board for that.