Why are we so bad covering the TE?

[Boatdrinks]

Every scheme has a weakness, and it’s somewhat of a choice with the Bills combined with personnel issues. Bottom line, there is no perfect defense . You choose what damage you most want to limit. That’s the chess match. The Colts are a balanced offense that does a lot of things well, if nothing exceptionally. The vanilla gameplan by McD and Frazier was a reflection of that. The Ravens, on the other hand are a very specialized offense and the Bills defensive gameplan is sure to reflect that. Just review last year’s Ravens game for evidence. The Defense will need to execute at a high level , no doubt. It’s a big ask, but far from an impossible one. Jackson can blow up even a great gameplan, but it’s not inevitable that he will. The flip side of the equation is the Bills offense. They were a weak unit last season , but are now at an elite level. The Ravens scored 20 points on a very bad 3rd down defense. If the Bills offense functions at a level near what they’ve been the last 6 or 7 weeks they will be able to win this game. 

[colin]

this is a great question.

 

i really think the D played well, but got figured out the 3rd and 2nd last drive where we got absolutely trucked, but righted the ship late.  i really think our D plays rock paper scissors, and if we get caught off or have a couple back to back bad plays, it falls apart some.

 

vs baltimore they really need to add some wrinkles, have to stop lamar running, but on any obv passing down they have to not have predictable pass offs, or else we will see a lot of TE completions.

[longtimebillsfan]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Junction said:

We play nickel instead of big nickel. None of our LBers have really stepped up against TEs this season. All of our DBs are 6’ or under. This defense has been inconsistent with passing off TEs from on defender to another. The pass rush has given TEs time to settle into zones or get down the seam. 

I thought Milano has great cover skills.   With his size, shouldn't he be able to match up against mist TEs?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Weird thing is last year we were great vs tight ends. 

 

Other than a couple plays Saturday the Bills were in tight coverage vs tight ends and just didn't make plays. Rivers was dealing. 

 

Ravens love to use multiple TEs also so they better step up. 

Edited January 11, 2021 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Not sure you all noticed this, but earlier in the game, Tre seemed to be on Doyle. You wonder if they do something similar with him on Andrews.

 

Reminds me of when we played the chiefs back in the day, and the Bills

would Use Antoine Winfield to shadow Tony Gonzalez. 

[Livinginthepast]

What pissed me off was that they were exploiting our weakness here throughout the game and we didn't adjust. There is not much point in a defensive coordinator being on the sidelines if he cant understand quickly what is happening in the game and change the schemes. I could understand if the catches werent hurting us but many of the TE grabs were killing us!

[Rock'em Sock'em]

IMO - If our front four could eat up the RBs more often, our LBs and Safeties would be more inclined to cover the TEs. Andrews is definitely coverable by our guys, but if the LBs are chasing Jackson and Dobbins, who is left to cover Andrews?  Kelce is a tough matchup for any defense and there's no stopping that connection short of double coverage or an incredible pass rush.  Tre White was able to frustrate Gronk the other year.

Edited January 11, 2021 by Rock'em Sock'em

[947]

9 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

What pissed me off was that they were exploiting our weakness here throughout the game and we didn't adjust. There is not much point in a defensive coordinator being on the sidelines if he cant understand quickly what is happening in the game and change the schemes. I could understand if the catches werent hurting us but many of the TE grabs were killing us!

Yep, I totally expected us to come out in the 2nd half with an adjustment on the TE crossers. Then, nothing...

 

I was half expecting McD to take over the Defensive play calling, but that never happened either.

[Kwai San]

1 hour ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Looking at Ravens personnel, they only throw to 3 players.  One is a fast shifty guy in Brown (tre White), one us a big WR in Snead and the other is a stud Tight End. Wallace and Taron Johnson could be liabilities on Saturday.  Maybe more Josh Norman who’s a bigger CB and more Milano in the big nickel role are the answer.  

 

Please no Norman.......please

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

Dugger was looked at the play the Big Nickel spot. He is saying our nickel corners aren't big or athletic enough to match up well on TEs

This year’s draft there’s Jamien Sherwood and Divine Deablo later in draft 

[RyanC883]

is Edmunds good in pass coverage?  I have no idea.  His run defense is not great.  

 

I was surprised by the Colts TE exploitation against us.  I would expect to see Poyer more involved in either spying on Lamar and/or covering a TE.  

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Looking at Ravens personnel, they only throw to 3 players.  One is a fast shifty guy in Brown (tre White), one us a big WR in Snead and the other is a stud Tight End. Wallace and Taron Johnson could be liabilities on Saturday.  Maybe more Josh Norman who’s a bigger CB and more Milano in the big nickel role are the answer.  

Norman or Dane Jackson 

[Rock'em Sock'em]

7 minutes ago, Kwai San said:

Please no Norman.......please

Why so much shade about Norman? To my eyes, Norman neither stands out significantly better or worse than other options.

 

Norman: Allowed 19 catches on 27 targets, 23 solo tackles in 344 snaps, a couple game changing plays.

Levi Wallace: Allowed 34 catches on 61 targets, 43 solo tackles in 612 snaps, 2 picks.

For what it's worth, PFF grade is 9 points higher for Norman compared to Wallace.

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

5 minutes ago, Rock'em Sock'em said:

Why so much shade about Norman? To my eyes, Norman neither stands out significantly better or worse than other options.

 

Norman: Allowed 19 catches on 27 targets, 23 solo tackles in 344 snaps, a couple game changing plays.

Levi Wallace: Allowed 34 catches on 61 targets, 43 solo tackles in 612 snaps, 2 picks.

For what it's worth, PFF grade is 9 points higher for Norman compared to Wallace.

 

Norman allows a catch 70% of the time he is targeted? 

[Hebert19]

2 hours ago, Ramza86 said:

We play base nickel...this should be easy. I dont get it.

 

I think for about half of the year ive been screaming...please cover the freaking tight end.

 

Yesterday I was boiling watching it unfold again.

 

Anyone have any ideas?

Easy.  We play nickel so we need to be up to the line to stop the run...which means we have to back off to cover and are susceptible as a result. 

[Kwai San]

1 minute ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Norman allows a catch 70% of the time he is targeted? 

 

This is my shade against Norman!!!  He is also a big play tackler....going for the rare strip rather than the stop.....

[Billever76]

1 hour ago, dneveu said:

 

Lots of zone.  There are soft spots in zones.  In cover 2 its between the safeties, in cover 3 and cover 4 its usually nearer to the hash marks.  This is usually where TEs run their routes.

Exactly!...its Frazier scheme....problem being that cover 2 will not work this week!....we need Frazier to get out of his default scheme and come up with something else....lamar doesn't hit his wideouts with consistency esp on routes outside the hashes....move coverage more towards the middle of the field and up closer than the cover 2 Frazier loves to run....we play the bend but don't break this week we will break all over the place and it will in turn limit our offense as Baltimore will hold the ball on long drives.....make them beat us with the big play and don't give up the dink and dunk and run plays this week....we need to put down the tampon 2 defense this week and become aggressive imo

[Straight Hucklebuck]

7 minutes ago, Kwai San said:

 

This is my shade against Norman!!!  He is also a big play tackler....going for the rare strip rather than the stop.....

Well the 2nd half of the Colts game, who else noticed him lined up in press across from Hilton. 

 

Now at that point, Rivers was obsessed with the middle of the field, and despite no pass, never even looked Hilton's way. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

Exactly!...its Frazier scheme....problem being that cover 2 will not work this week!....we need Frazier to get out of his default scheme and come up with something else....lamar doesn't hit his wideouts with consistency esp on routes outside the hashes....move coverage more towards the middle of the field and up closer than the cover 2 Frazier loves to run....we play the bend but don't break this week we will break all over the place and it will in turn limit our offense as Baltimore will hold the ball on long drives.....make them beat us with the big play and don't give up the dink and dunk and run plays this week....we need to put down the tampon 2 defense this week and become aggressive imo

 

They tend to run things like palms quarters coverage.  If they're over the middle the safeties would move in and the corners bail and play it like quarters, if there are short boundary routes the corners sit on them and the middle of the field is more open.  

[jethro_tull]

Great question!   The situation reminds me of the bad Bills of not too long ago where Nickel Roby-C, Ron Darby and Corey Graham tried to cover the likes of Gronk, Travis Kelce and Tyler Eifert.   Bad memories man!   

  

This is why big fast TEs are an effective weapon and one I hope the Bills fortify ASAP.  It just ain't that easy, even if they are covered they tend to catch the ball.