Most unbelievable throw from Allen Saturday

[DCofNC]

11 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Great throw and play but saying there is not one QB in the league that could throw that pass is unnecessary over-hype and leads me to believe you don't watch the rest of the NFL.    Mahomes and Rodgers can DEFINITELY make that throw as well as guys like Stafford and Herbert who have incredible pure arm talent as well.     We saw a bunch of soft-tossers on the Bills schedule but there are also a bunch of guys in the league right now who at one time might have had the strongest arms in the NFL over the past 25-30 years.    The game has swung back in favor of big armed passers over the past decade after the zone blitz kinda' turned the game into more of a cerebral exercise in the mid-90's......which really limited the pool of passers and lead to an era of domination by guys like the Mannings and Brees and Brady.    

I agree with what you are saying here.  I honestly do feel JA is the most physically gifted Athlete at QB in the NFL right now and I’d go so far as to say, I can’t recall ever seeing anyone with more raw talent ever, that actually panned out anyway.  It’s not that Rodgers can’t make all the same throws, but he puts more into them than Allen and Maholmes do.  Maholmes throws from angles that seem to defy physics and Allen doesn’t need a base under him to throw virtually any pass he wants, those two are in another universe as far as unorthodox plays.  Stafford had/had a rocket launcher, but again, more an on platform guy and Herbert doesn’t appear to be quite the same level as the big dogs, but he certainly has a top 5 ish arm.

[Last Guy on the Bench]

33 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Great throw and play but saying there is not one QB in the league that could throw that pass is unnecessary over-hype and leads me to believe you don't watch the rest of the NFL.    Mahomes and Rodgers can DEFINITELY make that throw as well as guys like Stafford and Herbert who have incredible pure arm talent as well.     We saw a bunch of soft-tossers on the Bills schedule but there are also a bunch of guys in the league right now who at one time might have had the strongest arms in the NFL over the past 25-30 years.    The game has swung back in favor of big armed passers over the past decade after the zone blitz kinda' turned the game into more of a cerebral exercise in the mid-90's......which really limited the pool of passers and lead to an era of domination by guys like the Mannings and Brees and Brady.    

For sure, there are a number of guys that can make that throw. But do you think they can make it look that easy and casual? Not that that matters in terms of impact. But it is pretty fun to watch.

[BADOLBILZ]

7 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

I agree with what you are saying here.  I honestly do feel JA is the most physically gifted Athlete at QB in the NFL right now and I’d go so far as to say, I can’t recall ever seeing anyone with more raw talent ever, that actually panned out anyway.  It’s not that Rodgers can’t make all the same throws, but he puts more into them than Allen and Maholmes do.  Maholmes throws from angles that seem to defy physics and Allen doesn’t need a base under him to throw virtually any pass he wants, those two are in another universe as far as unorthodox plays.  Stafford had/had a rocket launcher, but again, more an on platform guy and Herbert doesn’t appear to be quite the same level as the big dogs, but he certainly has a top 5 ish arm.

 

 

Mahomes has the ball on a string.   He has a handle like Kyrie Irving does in the NBA.  He and Allen are comparable over-all in arm strength but Mahomes throws some passes that look like the slow down and turn so that they are easier to catch.   It's amazing when he's in rhythm.

 

 I disagree about the effort needed by Rodgers.   Sometimes he looks like a butler shuffling around out there making high velocity and deep throws and never sacrificing his posture.   Until Mahomes came into the league he could make more throws than anyone in the league for a decade plus.

 

I think Allen has had and still has the strongest arm and he's quickly improving in the off platform throw category.    Improving his accuracy thru mechanics was incredibly impressive on it's own but to then be able to find his center and make accurate throws without those mechanical adjustments is much more impressive to me.  I've felt for a long time that you can have great mechanics but the command of throws comes from the shoulder down and that he was going to have to improve his feel from there to be great off-platform.   I think Jordan Palmer actually touched on that recently on OBL.   

[BearNorth]

Allen made 4 other wordly throws.  Two sideline throws to Davis, the TD to Knox while he was being tackled and the bomb to Diggs. Just saying Josh is a Baller.

 

[Mark Vader]

1 hour ago, DisplacedBillsFan said:

The nice thing we have going for us now is that if they commit to shutting down Diggs we have so many other weapons. On a similar note, I still didn’t see any reason as to why McKenzie went missing last week. I would have liked to have seen at least one sweep or fake end around.

I would have liked to have seen that too.

 

This is where Daboll needs to stop overthinking the game plan. I don't mind the designed running plays for Allen, but we don't need to do it 10-15 times a game.

 

Josh Allen and our WR group is the strength of the offense. Allen has confidence in his receivers. You give him a chance and he will find the open receiver.

[DCofNC]

11 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Mahomes has the ball on a string.   He has a handle like Kyrie Irving does in the NBA.  He and Allen are comparable over-all in arm strength but Mahomes throws some passes that look like the slow down and turn so that they are easier to catch.   It's amazing when he's in rhythm.

 

 I disagree about the effort needed by Rodgers.   Sometimes he looks like a butler shuffling around out there making high velocity and deep throws and never sacrificing his posture.   Until Mahomes came into the league he could make more throws than anyone in the league for a decade plus.

 

I think Allen has had and still has the strongest arm and he's quickly improving in the off platform throw category.    Improving his accuracy thru mechanics was incredibly impressive on it's own but to then be able to find his center and make accurate throws without those mechanical adjustments is much more impressive to me.  I've felt for a long time that you can have great mechanics but the command of throws comes from the shoulder down and that he was going to have to improve his feel from there to be great off-platform.   I think Jordan Palmer actually touched on that recently on OBL.   

Great description on Maholmes.  He’s a freaking wizard with the ball. 
 

I don’t mean to take anything away from Rodgers, he has an incredible arm, I just feel he needs a little more push to zing the ball than you see with JA and Maholmes.  Rodgers has outstanding body control and mechanics, he uses leverage/torsion etc, to maximize his ball and it is effortless for him, but you can visually see he uses his base/body more for it. 
 

Allen’s transformation has been nothing short of amazing.  His off platform accuracy this year is insane.  He wasn’t able to put balls on guys from a clean pocket last year and this year he threads needles while falling out of bounds on the opposite side of the field.

[GunnerBill]

58 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Great throw and play but saying there is not one QB in the league that could throw that pass is unnecessary over-hype and leads me to believe you don't watch the rest of the NFL.    Mahomes and Rodgers can DEFINITELY make that throw as well as guys like Stafford and Herbert who have incredible pure arm talent as well.     We saw a bunch of soft-tossers on the Bills schedule but there are also a bunch of guys in the league right now who at one time might have had the strongest arms in the NFL over the past 25-30 years.    The game has swung back in favor of big armed passers over the past decade after the zone blitz kinda' turned the game into more of a cerebral exercise in the mid-90's......which really limited the pool of passers and lead to an era of domination by guys like the Mannings and Brees and Brady.    

 

Interesting observation Badol. I have talked before about the fact that I think the blitz heavy defenses of my early years watching the game in the early and mid 00s in the era of THE Baltimore defense and the like feel pretty antiquated now. The cover 1 / cover 3 has definitely been the predominant scheme of the past 8 or 9 years at least and that does play in somewhat to the idea that if you are facing more men left in coverage arm strength to zip into tighter windows increases in importance. As I always say there is no one way to play or one way to win in the NFL and there are always a handful of teams at any one time that go against the trends and succeed as a result but it is an interesting one to ponder as to whether the revival of the big armed guy is a response to the way defenses changed to counter the cerebral pocket passers of the 00s and early 10s.... it is what makes the sport so fascinating to me. Something can work brilliantly for 5,6,7 years and then suddenly it stops being effective because the other side of the ball counters. 

[BADOLBILZ]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Interesting observation Badol. I have talked before about the fact that I think the blitz heavy defenses of my early years watching the game in the early and mid 00s in the era of THE Baltimore defense and the like feel pretty antiquated now. The cover 1 / cover 3 has definitely been the predominant scheme of the past 8 or 9 years at least and that does play in somewhat to the idea that if you are facing more men left in coverage arm strength to zip into tighter windows increases in importance. As I always say there is no one way to play or one way to win in the NFL and there are always a handful of teams at any one time that go against the trends and succeed as a result but it is an interesting one to ponder as to whether the revival of the big armed guy is a response to the way defenses changed to counter the cerebral pocket passers of the 00s and early 10s.... it is what makes the sport so fascinating to me. Something can work brilliantly for 5,6,7 years and then suddenly it stops being effective because the other side of the ball counters. 

 

 

Yeah before the zone blitz stuff NFL defenses of the 80's and early 90's were generally quite simple.    The name of the game was physicality/violence and execution..... you really HAD to run the ball a lot or defenses would physically batter your passing game talent.    That's why most of the QB's of the 80's were big, strong dudes that could take a weekly beating that would look like a Rocky movie fight compared to what current NFL QB's have to deal with.

 

The west coast offense sorta' cracked the code.   Before that,  most great offenses had like 2-3 year runs the way defenses do now.   The WCO allowed SF to throw the ball consistently year-in-and-out even without run balance.   By the mid-90's everyone was trying to convert to WCO. 

 

The zone blitz was an adjustment to that(though I think more specifically to the Bills WCO-like offense which had been killing Pittsburgh).  Adding the zone blitz stuff was a cruel turn to the status quo and for the next 15 years it made being an NFL QB much more complicated and cerebral.

 

When Rex had the Jets going off and the Steelers were killing receivers.........and the young stud QB's of the game Big Ben and Aaron Rodgers were getting beaten to hell..........Goodell finally said enough was enough and legislated the violence out of the pocket and middle of the field for receivers.   Without that threat of violence we found out that the exotic defenses weren't very effective.    

 

 Now it's a relative track meet.    Great defenses still pop up but it's pretty much impossible to sustain.   Goodell caught a ton of grief for cracking down on the violence but he made the owners a ton of money doing so and helped more gradually ease the league into what became the CTE crisis.   

[HappyDays]

16 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

personally i thought that throw to davis to his right to start the end of half drive was other worldly.... amongst a handful of others

 

Insane throw. I loved the announcer starting to say "and Allen will just throw this one away" before realizing it was a legit throw. I thought for sure he was just tossing it out of bounds.

[HappyDays]

Also, equally impressive as the throw itself is that Allen recognized Diggs was breaking open and threw it with anticipation to a spot before the safety could get there to break it up. If he throws it a quarter of a second later it's an incompletion. He could have made that throw from that platform the day we drafted him, but he wouldn't have recognized Diggs was open until this year.

[Bubba Gump]

10 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Insane throw. I loved the announcer starting to say "and Allen will just throw this one away" before realizing it was a legit throw. I thought for sure he was just tossing it out of bounds.

 

Yeah, that was amazing too. I thought he was 100% chucking it away. Still can't believe it was caught in bounds. 

[Big Blitz]

He's going to need to make 5 of these this week.  

 

I think he will.  

 

I'm getting more confident by the hour.  

[BruceVilanch]

17 hours ago, Plano said:

You kick them in their faces every chance you get.

 

Jam them at the line, hit them in the throat when you jam them. 

 

Dogpile? Great place to jab their eyes.

 

Pass across the middle? Shoulder into their helmets. FINISH THEM.

 

That's what we were taught in HS/College. 

 

You make them afraid to come near you. Spit in their faces when you line up against them. Make them feel inferior in every single way.

 

When you finish tackling them, step on their ankles when you get up. ***** everything they are about.

 

Jesus, calm down Mr. Bean.

[Draconator]

18 hours ago, Plano said:

Then we need to play dirtier. Cleats to throats the entire game. Punch them in their ***** faces and keep them on their asses.

 

They can't hang with us.

 

Stop the RB who throws it on occasion and they are FINISHED.

 

Their season ends at our hands SATURDAY. 

 

PERIOD. 

 

17 hours ago, Plano said:

You kick them in their faces every chance you get.

 

Jam them at the line, hit them in the throat when you jam them. 

 

Dogpile? Great place to jab their eyes.

 

Pass across the middle? Shoulder into their helmets. FINISH THEM.

 

That's what we were taught in HS/College. 

 

You make them afraid to come near you. Spit in their faces when you line up against them. Make them feel inferior in every single way.

 

When you finish tackling them, step on their ankles when you get up. ***** everything they are about.

 

 

XANAX STAT!!!!

[Billsfan1972]

The best & most important one was the first one to Davis for 37 yards.  Rolling out in his endzone, under pressure & 37 yards along the sidelines.  Just incredible.

 

On first down Diggs actually dropped one and if that one isn't completed it is third & 10 from the 4 yard line.

 

That was overlooked because they just kept showing the toe tap.... 

[ganesh]

20 hours ago, Redneck said:

So awesome to see elite level play by our QB/WR!  QB: Arm strength/touch/accuracy; WR: Concentration/hands/speed.  One thing also - Gabriel Davis came to grab the ball when the DB was trying to pry the ball out of Diggs' hands after the play was over.  This is a 4th round rookie!  We can find the players, and they really fight for each other!  Trust/respect/anything-you-say-McBeane/The Process!

I loved the interview process with Gabe Davis (It was on one of those  Bills Draft segment in May of last year).  The guy was super composed and very focused with his answers.   Bean and Schoen loved how he was finishing his drills very strong.    I am not surprised that he is such an integral part of this offense.  Humble and Focused...

[GunnerBill]

10 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah before the zone blitz stuff NFL defenses of the 80's and early 90's were generally quite simple.    The name of the game was physicality/violence and execution..... you really HAD to run the ball a lot or defenses would physically batter your passing game talent.    That's why most of the QB's of the 80's were big, strong dudes that could take a weekly beating that would look like a Rocky movie fight compared to what current NFL QB's have to deal with.

 

The west coast offense sorta' cracked the code.   Before that,  most great offenses had like 2-3 year runs the way defenses do now.   The WCO allowed SF to throw the ball consistently year-in-and-out even without run balance.   By the mid-90's everyone was trying to convert to WCO. 

 

The zone blitz was an adjustment to that(though I think more specifically to the Bills WCO-like offense which had been killing Pittsburgh).  Adding the zone blitz stuff was a cruel turn to the status quo and for the next 15 years it made being an NFL QB much more complicated and cerebral.

 

When Rex had the Jets going off and the Steelers were killing receivers.........and the young stud QB's of the game Big Ben and Aaron Rodgers were getting beaten to hell..........Goodell finally said enough was enough and legislated the violence out of the pocket and middle of the field for receivers.   Without that threat of violence we found out that the exotic defenses weren't very effective.    

 

 Now it's a relative track meet.    Great defenses still pop up but it's pretty much impossible to sustain.   Goodell caught a ton of grief for cracking down on the violence but he made the owners a ton of money doing so and helped more gradually ease the league into what became the CTE crisis.   

 

Agree on what has happened this century. And agree having a great defense that sustains more than 3 or 4 years is really tough now.

 

EDIT: and I should add that further evidence that you can't run the Baltimore defense of the 00s in the modern NFL was provided by the horror show on tape that Mike Nolan tried to run in Dallas this year. I said on this board after they lost week 1 at the Rams - that scheme cannot work in the league now the Cowboys are gonna be awful on defense and despite playing 6 games against the NFC least they finished 28th in points allowed. 

Edited January 12, 2021 by GunnerBill

[JMF2006]

23 hours ago, Mark80 said:

I have a decent arm.  Was always the QB in pick up games, college intramurals, played baseball, etc.  Whatever.  Got to go on the field in Orchard Park some years back and throw some balls around with a buddy.  Said, lets see how far I can throw this thing.  20 yards, no problem, 30, ok....got to 40 and it took everything I had to get that one to the goal line.  This freak can do it with absolutely no effort whatsoever.  Crazy.

 

40 yards is a pretty long throw for a mortal

 

Ask Phil "my hail mary landed at the 10 " Rivers  

[Not at the table Karlos]

21 hours ago, BillsIsrael said:

John Brown had 4 targets - missed all 4, that's half of JA incompletions. Are we sure he's healthy?

Two were poor throws(one of those poor throws had a pretty good INT attempt) by Josh, one was in double coverage with good coverage, other one went right through his hands and almost hit him in the face. So only one of the targets was all on Brown. 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Not at the table Karlos

[Bill from NYC]

9 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah before the zone blitz stuff NFL defenses of the 80's and early 90's were generally quite simple.    The name of the game was physicality/violence and execution..... you really HAD to run the ball a lot or defenses would physically batter your passing game talent.    That's why most of the QB's of the 80's were big, strong dudes that could take a weekly beating that would look like a Rocky movie fight compared to what current NFL QB's have to deal with.

 

The west coast offense sorta' cracked the code.   Before that,  most great offenses had like 2-3 year runs the way defenses do now.   The WCO allowed SF to throw the ball consistently year-in-and-out even without run balance.   By the mid-90's everyone was trying to convert to WCO. 

 

The zone blitz was an adjustment to that(though I think more specifically to the Bills WCO-like offense which had been killing Pittsburgh).  Adding the zone blitz stuff was a cruel turn to the status quo and for the next 15 years it made being an NFL QB much more complicated and cerebral.

 

When Rex had the Jets going off and the Steelers were killing receivers.........and the young stud QB's of the game Big Ben and Aaron Rodgers were getting beaten to hell..........Goodell finally said enough was enough and legislated the violence out of the pocket and middle of the field for receivers.   Without that threat of violence we found out that the exotic defenses weren't very effective.    

 

 Now it's a relative track meet.    Great defenses still pop up but it's pretty much impossible to sustain.   Goodell caught a ton of grief for cracking down on the violence but he made the owners a ton of money doing so and helped more gradually ease the league into what became the CTE crisis.   

GREAT post Badol!!!

 

Receivers were taking their lives in their hands going over the middle in those days. Tatum and Atkinson on the Raiders were the equivalent of assasins. I clearly remember receivers jumping for an overthrown pass and getting speared in the back, legally.  

 

It amazes me that more of these old timers are not cripples. One full speed hit to a defenseless receiver from Ronnie Lott would seem to be enough to kill an average person.