The colts fumble that was not called

[Dukestreetking]

3 hours ago, Best Williams Available said:

I mean the fact that decently informed NFL fans don’t know the procedure is a problem for the league.

Very insightful...reminds me of the ever evolving catch rule, or when they changed OT. For some reason, it took me a while to figure out (of course I'm a dumb a**, so there's that).

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 hour ago, White Linen said:

 

He couldn't challenge. 

But!  He had to call TO so the League could get it's poo together.  The League was gonna turn a blind eye and let Colts run a play! Unbelievable! 

Hand of Providence that McD had the wherewithal to call TO in the nick of time!

[BuffaloRebound]

2 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

But!  He had to call TO so the League could get it's poo together.  The League was gonna turn a blind eye and let Colts run a play! Unbelievable! 

Hand of Providence that McD had the wherewithal to call TO in the nick of time!

In defense of the Booth, Indy was out of timeouts and stopping the clock without being sure that it was a close play would’ve helped Indy.  

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

In defense of the Booth, Indy was out of timeouts and stopping the clock without being sure that it was a close play would’ve helped Indy.  

So.  That's their problem. 

It was a close play.  

[Dukestreetking]

2 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Would 80,000 fans have driven them to make the right call?

Yet another good point in this thread.

 

I recall interesting MLB study (few yrs ago?) that demonstrated statistically significant bias by umpires in favor of home team.

 

Focus was ball/strikes, and seem to remember it was in the 5 percent range, but don't quote me.

 

Theoretical explanation was basic human psychology: at the margins, the umps would rather not get booed. 

 

Same dynamic in NFL on field calls? Who knows? Mongo only pawn in game of life.

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 minute ago, Dukestreetking said:

Yet another good point in this thread.

 

I recall interesting MLB study (few yrs ago?) that demonstrated statistically significant bias by umpires in favor of home team.

 

Focus was ball/strikes, and seem to remember it was in the 5 percent range, but don't quote me.

 

Theoretical explanation was basic human psychology: at the margins, the umps would rather not get booed. 

 

Same dynamic in NFL on field calls? Who knows? Mongo only pawn in game of life.

They got the "Immaculate Reception" in 1970s wrong because the refs had to leave Pittsburgh.

[4merper4mer]

1 minute ago, Dukestreetking said:

Yet another good point in this thread.

 

I recall interesting MLB study (few yrs ago?) that demonstrated statistically significant bias by umpires in favor of home team.

 

Focus was ball/strikes, and seem to remember it was in the 5 percent range, but don't quote me.

 

Theoretical explanation was basic human psychology: at the margins, the umps would rather not get booed. 

 

Same dynamic in NFL on field calls? Who knows? Mongo only pawn in game of life.

There was a book about stuff like that.  I forgot the name.  Also went into how getting a called strike two is easier than a called strike three.  It’s not universal though.  That poor pitcher from Detroit got robbed of out #27 in a perfect game at home.  That was a bad one.

[BuffaloRebound]

1 minute ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

So.  That's their problem. 

 
just saying.  It’s not as simple as saying they should’ve immediately went to replay.  Indy got to the line quick because clock was running and they had no timeouts.  Indy would’ve had at least 10 more seconds on clock if they blew the whistle earlier and went to replay.  Ref still would’ve upheld play and Indy would’ve had 10 more seconds to work with.  Booth has to wait to see something definitive enough to stop the clock in that situation.  

[ExiledInIllinois]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

 
just saying.  It’s not as simple as saying they should’ve immediately went to replay.  Indy got to the line quick because clock was running and they had no timeouts.  Indy would’ve had at least 10 more seconds on clock if they blew the whistle earlier and went to replay.  Ref still would’ve upheld play and Indy would’ve had 10 more seconds to work with.  Booth has to wait to see something definitive enough to stop the clock in that situation.  

Okay... Fair enough.  But Poyer clearly didn't touch Pascal when Pascal's knee was down.

Edited January 10, 2021 by ExiledInIllinois

[Profootballdisc]

No, that was yet another mistake by the officiating crew. The replay review failed to realize that they should have reviewed the ruling on the field. When McDermott called a TO (hoping they would realize that the play should be reviewed), they did in fact decide to review the play, but only after McDermott called a TO. Had they decided to review the play prior to McDermott’s TO, replay review would have buzzed the referee and informed him that they were reviewing the play, and Buffalo’s TO wouldn’t have been taken and announced on the field.  
 

Bottom line, they made 4 mistakes on 1 play;

1.) The refs on the field failed to see that Pascal had gotten up before he was touched and then attempted to advance the ball before fumbling, so they ruled him down by contact.

2.) The replay review failed to realize that the call on the field should have been reviewed, forcing McDermott to call a TO before Rivers hurriedly snapped the ball.

3.) They failed to overturn the ruling on the field when all visual evidence clearly shows that; Pascal got up before he was touched and attempted to advance the ball, the ball was fumbled before he was tackled again, the ball came out prior to him being down, and the Bills clearly recovered the fumble.

4.) The explanation by the referee that the Bills wouldn’t be charged a TO because the replay review initiated the TO was incorrect. Replay review clearly wasn’t initiated prior to the TO or that same ref who gave the explanation on field would have been made aware and not stated that Buffalo had called a TO. Since coaches cannot challenge a ruling within the final 2 minutes, that time out shouldn’t have been returned to Buffalo. The fact that the officiating crew made the mistake which led to the TO being called is irrelevant. Nothing about that ruling was correct. Nothing. They got the initial ruling on the field wrong, they failed to review it prior to the TO, they ruled not to overturn the call when clear and obvious visual evidence showed that the ball was fumbled and recovered by Buffalo, and they returned the TO to Buffalo when they shouldn’t have. They are just lucky that their bad officiating didn’t ultimately cost Buffalo the game, but it could have. 

[Dukestreetking]

Warning to all:

 

My TBD board configuration just went kaflooe (sp?) for several minutes. Seriously, it did.

 

So...

 

The Badge must be watching us man! Wants to shut this discussion down, and he owns the night.

 

#resistance

[Simon]

I remember reading another one where jersey color was a factor in called penalties.

Darker jerseys drew penalties at a higher percentage than they could explain away with other factors.

The human mind is weird-assed attic

[White Linen]

1 hour ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

But!  He had to call TO so the League could get it's poo together.  The League was gonna turn a blind eye and let Colts run a play! Unbelievable! 

Hand of Providence that McD had the wherewithal to call TO in the nick of time!

 

Yes sir, we agree completely on what happened. 

 

Simon said that's not what happened.   That the refs were waiting until the last second and McD calling TO had nothing to do with it and his evidence is because we weren't charged one.  Wrong!

[The Red King]

Am I mistaken, or did the league do the same to Tampa earlier?  Close play, looked like a fumble, was near the end of the first half, under two minutes.  Looked like the booth wasn't going to review it so Tampa burned a time-out to force the issue.  And after the review, call on the field stood.

 

Tampa won, as did we, but the NFL should realize they dodged a bullet twice and really take a look at it's officials and replay system.

[Rochesterfan]

43 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

Yes sir, we agree completely on what happened. 

 

Simon said that's not what happened.   That the refs were waiting until the last second and McD calling TO had nothing to do with it and his evidence is because we weren't charged one.  Wrong!

 

Do you have any proof of this?

 

The facts are - the replay booth on these types of plays with a running clock do not buzz down until immediately at the snap to prevent giving the offense a time advantage.  Several of these plays happen where the ball is snapped and the ref blows the whistle stating he got the notification.

 

2nd - McD not being sure if they got the buzz used his available time out just before the ball was snapped and the referee clearly stated that he was buzzed at the same time and therefore the Bills were not charged a time out.

 

3rd - several hours later in the TB game - TB calls a time out right before the half to get the Refs to look at a fumble.  He called it before the replay team buzzed down and therefore TB stopped the running clock.  They decided to review the play and determined it was not a fumble and TB still lost the timeout because they stopped the clock.  The announcers clearly stated if after the review - it was determined to be a fumble - TB would have gotten their timeout back, but because they called the timeout before the review was initiated with a running clock - if it was upheld TB lost the timeout.

 

 If you view that in the context of the Bills game - if McD called the timeout with a running clock like TB and it was not simultaneous to the ref getting buzzed - Buffalo would have been charged with the timeout just like TB, but the ref clearly states Buffalo was not charged the timeout because the replay team buzzed in at the same time.

 

Therefore based upon the available facts @Simon is 100% correct.  We have no way to know the exact moment the replay team buzzes in, but usually the offense snaps the ball and begins the play and the ref blows it dead when the clock is moving to ensure the offense does not gain a time advantage.

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Rochesterfan

[Rochesterfan]

38 minutes ago, The Red King said:

Am I mistaken, or did the league do the same to Tampa earlier?  Close play, looked like a fumble, was near the end of the first half, under two minutes.  Looked like the booth wasn't going to review it so Tampa burned a time-out to force the issue.  And after the review, call on the field stood.

 

Tampa won, as did we, but the NFL should realize they dodged a bullet twice and really take a look at it's officials and replay system.

 

Exactly - the difference was TB did not get their timeout back because they stopped the clock well before the next snap on a running clock and therefore well before the replay team buzzed in to the ref and therefore the timeout stood.

 

The Bills got their timeout back which suggests that it was simultaneous to the replay buzz.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Rochesterfan

[Billsatlastin2018]

I saw a replay tonight, via You Tube/ CBS. That one absolutely showed Poyer waiting for the Receiver to elevate before whacking the ball out!

 

How does the review peeps screw that up?

[Rubes]

So glad we won this game. That horrendous call would have haunted me.

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

How did McD get the TO back after losing challenge.  Was there no challenge @ all.

 

If McD doesn't call it, the next play stands! Criminal!

It wasn't a challenge. It was under two minutes.  Somehow the refs decided that they were reviewing the play and that the Bills TO did not need to be called though I don't think that is how it would have played out if McD did not call the TO. The Colts were snapping the ball just as McD was calling TO.  We will never really know if they would have stopped play on their own.

41 minutes ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

I saw a replay tonight, via You Tube/ CBS. That one absolutely showed Poyer waiting for the Receiver to elevate before whacking the ball out!

 

How does the review peeps screw that up?

No idea because even the TV broadcast was clear Poyer had not touched him yet.  

[BillsfaninSB]

Like the ending in AZ, so glad this play did not come back to haunt us.  No one will care in a day or two.