FireChans Posted January 16, 2021 Posted January 16, 2021 1 minute ago, mannc said: Seems that way to me. Aren't you complaining about the players trying to "run the league"? Or did I miss something? You missed something.
mannc Posted January 16, 2021 Posted January 16, 2021 Just now, FireChans said: You missed something. Fair enough. I went back and read all your posts in this thread, and I'm not quite sure where you come down on the issue. You do seem to support Watson's right to try to influence the Texans' path... 1
NewEra Posted January 16, 2021 Posted January 16, 2021 28 minutes ago, FireChans said: Huh? AB was going to be shipped to Buffalo and he squashed it. Then he forced the Raiders to cut him. And he ended up on the Pats, where he wanted to be. Sure, he got cut after all that other crap came out, but he was making the owners tap dance. Wentz easily won the Pederson war. Because he's still employed. Bell sat out and made the Steelers let him walk for nothing. Elway and Eli were draft picks and players that made their original teams trade them for lesser players because that's what they wanted. Watson doesn't have to sit out for a year to have leverage. He already has it because he's a superstar QB. Excuse me? There’s a BIG different between some players forcing a teams hand and the player’s running the league. 1
Doc Posted January 16, 2021 Posted January 16, 2021 6 minutes ago, FireChans said: Huh? AB was going to be shipped to Buffalo and he squashed it. Then he forced the Raiders to cut him. And he ended up on the Pats, where he wanted to be. Sure, he got cut after all that other crap came out, but he was making the owners tap dance. Wentz easily won the Pederson war. Because he's still employed. Bell sat out and made the Steelers let him walk for nothing. Elway and Eli were draft picks and players that made their original teams trade them for lesser players because that's what they wanted. Watson doesn't have to sit out for a year to have leverage. He already has it because he's a superstar QB. Sure he's a superstar. But the problem for him is that he played all season long...and the team managed only 4 wins. They aren't going to be any better this year without their first and second round picks and players likely to avoid going there. Which makes his only leverage, sitting out, a hollow threat because if he does, they go from picking top-5 anyway to maybe 1st, which actually helps them more. Meanwhile it costs him a huge chunk of money/likely a good portion of his signing bonus if he sits out.
FireChans Posted January 16, 2021 Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Doc said: Sure he's a superstar. But the problem for him is that he played all season long...and the team managed only 4 wins. They aren't going to be any better this year without their first and second round picks and players likely to avoid going there. Which makes his only leverage, sitting out, a hollow threat because if he does, they go from picking top-5 anyway to maybe 1st, which actually helps them more. Meanwhile it costs him a huge chunk of money/likely a good portion of his signing bonus if he sits out. You seem to think that his only leverage is sitting out. It isn't. He's exercising his leverage right now. 4 minutes ago, NewEra said: There’s a BIG different between some players forcing a teams hand and the player’s running the league. Not really. Spencer Dinwiddie doesn't run the NBA. Players like Lebron do. Even Chris Paul, a HoF player in the NBA, got traded to an OKC team which was supposed to be TERRIBLE. Guess who collected his paycheck and didn't make a peep? Edited January 16, 2021 by FireChans
JoshAllenReceipts Posted January 16, 2021 Posted January 16, 2021 32 minutes ago, FireChans said: Huh? AB was going to be shipped to Buffalo and he squashed it. Then he forced the Raiders to cut him. And he ended up on the Pats, where he wanted to be. Sure, he got cut after all that other crap came out, but he was making the owners tap dance. Wentz easily won the Pederson war. Because he's still employed. Bell sat out and made the Steelers let him walk for nothing. Elway and Eli were draft picks and players that made their original teams trade them for lesser players because that's what they wanted. Watson doesn't have to sit out for a year to have leverage. He already has it because he's a superstar QB. Excuse me? "Superstar QBs" don't go 4-12 in 2020 in a league where QBs determine Winning and Losing. This is real-life football, not Fantasy Football. 4 minutes ago, Doc said: Sure he's a superstar. But the problem for him is that he played all season long...and the team managed only 4 wins. They aren't going to be any better this year without their first and second round picks and players likely to avoid going there. Which makes his only leverage, sitting out, a hollow threat because if he does, they go from picking top-5 anyway to maybe 1st, which actually helps them more. Meanwhile it costs him a huge chunk of money/likely a good portion of his signing bonus if he sits out. "Superstar" QBs don't go 4-12 in 2020 in a QB league where QBs determine Winning and Losing.
FireChans Posted January 16, 2021 Posted January 16, 2021 1 minute ago, JoshAllenReceipts said: "Superstar QBs" don't go 4-12 in 2020 in a league where QBs determine Winning and Losing. This is real-life football, not Fantasy Football. "Superstar" QBs don't go 4-12 in 2020 in a QB league where QBs determine Winning and Losing. Apparently they do because Deshaun Watson just did.
JoshAllenReceipts Posted January 16, 2021 Posted January 16, 2021 1 minute ago, FireChans said: Apparently they do because Deshaun Watson just did. Apparently he's not a superstar QB.
FireChans Posted January 16, 2021 Posted January 16, 2021 Just now, JoshAllenReceipts said: Apparently he's not a superstar QB. You're probably gonna have to come up with a better argument than "nuh uh."
NewEra Posted January 16, 2021 Posted January 16, 2021 10 minutes ago, FireChans said: You seem to think that his only leverage is sitting out. It isn't. He's exercising his leverage right now. Not really. Spencer Dinwiddie doesn't run the NBA. Players like Lebron do. Even Chris Paul, a HoF player in the NBA, got traded to an OKC team which was supposed to be TERRIBLE. Guess who collected his paycheck and didn't make a peep? I’m talking about the nfl.
FireChans Posted January 16, 2021 Posted January 16, 2021 Just now, NewEra said: I’m talking about the nfl. Sorry, my argument is that if you are going to argue that NBA players "run the league" because some superstars dictate moves, I would argue the NFL players also "run the league."
Doc Posted January 16, 2021 Posted January 16, 2021 Just now, FireChans said: You seem to think that his only leverage is sitting out. It isn't. He's exercising his leverage right now. What leverage is he exercising right now? At best he got them to give a token interview to Bienenemy. What else can he do? Not much.
NewEra Posted January 16, 2021 Posted January 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, FireChans said: Sorry, my argument is that if you are going to argue that NBA players "run the league" because some superstars dictate moves, I would argue the NFL players also "run the league." I see. I just don’t see it that way. JMO, nba players clearly run the league, while some nfl players get their way. I see your point though, it definitely happens. Just on a different level and not nearly as often
FireChans Posted January 16, 2021 Posted January 16, 2021 1 minute ago, Doc said: What leverage is he exercising right now? At best he got them to give a token interview to Bienenemy. What else can he do? Not much. Cause headaches. Express displeasure loudly and often. Do you think any one in the Houston Front Office is happy right now?
Doc Posted January 16, 2021 Posted January 16, 2021 Just now, FireChans said: Cause headaches. Express displeasure loudly and often. Do you think any one in the Houston Front Office is happy right now? Immaterial. I doubt anyone's happy coming off a 4 win season despite having a superstar franchise QB, no 1st or 2nd round picks, and Tennessee and Indy in their division, plus the Jags getting Lawrence. If I'm Caserio, I say to Watson to give me a couple years or sit out because we can win 4 games with or without you.
JoshAllenReceipts Posted January 16, 2021 Posted January 16, 2021 21 minutes ago, FireChans said: You're probably gonna have to come up with a better argument than "nuh uh." 4-12 is all I need. 4 and 12. 2 of the 4 wins came against the #1 overall pick Jaguars.
FireChans Posted January 16, 2021 Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Doc said: Immaterial. I doubt anyone's happy coming off a 4 win season despite having a superstar franchise QB, no 1st or 2nd round picks, and Tennessee and Indy in their division, plus the Jags getting Lawrence. If I'm Caserio, I say to Watson to give me a couple years or sit out because we can win 4 games with or without you. If they didn't have Watson, they go 0-16. Also, just because you say it's immaterial doesn't make it true. Watson starting airing grievances and voila, they interview his preferred candidate. They clearly care, even if you don't. 6 minutes ago, JoshAllenReceipts said: 4-12 is all I need. 4 and 12. 2 of the 4 wins came against the #1 overall pick Jaguars. It's a silly argument. But if you wanna talk numbers.... Despite only playing 10 more games than Josh Allen, Deshaun Watson has thrown for ~5000 more yards, 37 more TD's and only 5 more INT's. Watson is a superstar. Their team sucked this year. It sucked last year too, just a little bit less. Edited January 16, 2021 by FireChans 1
JoshAllenReceipts Posted January 16, 2021 Posted January 16, 2021 6 minutes ago, FireChans said: If they didn't have Watson, they go 0-16. Also, just because you say it's immaterial doesn't make it true. Watson starting airing grievances and voila, they interview his preferred candidate. They clearly care, even if you don't. It's a silly argument. But if you wanna talk numbers.... Despite only playing 10 more games than Josh Allen, Deshaun Watson has thrown for ~5000 more yards, 37 more TD's and only 5 more INT's. Watson is a superstar. Their team sucked this year. It sucked last year too, just a little bit less. 4-12
FireChans Posted January 16, 2021 Posted January 16, 2021 1 minute ago, JoshAllenReceipts said: 4-12 Peyton Manning once went 6-10. Aaron Rodgers went 6-9-1 two years ago. Your argument stinks.
JoshAllenReceipts Posted January 16, 2021 Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) Just now, FireChans said: Peyton Manning once went 6-10. Aaron Rodgers went 6-9-1 two years ago. Your argument stinks. 4-12 is worse than 6-10 The 2 wins against JAX should count as Half Wins each. Edited January 16, 2021 by JoshAllenReceipts
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