MJS Posted January 7, 2021 Posted January 7, 2021 11 minutes ago, In Summary said: The inference being that if your starter is out and you have to play the backup QB, your season rests on the backup's ability. Going to your #2 LT, CB, RB etc would have less team impact. Think Allen to Barlkey vs Diggs to Brown. You can still have a good season with Brown. I understand that, but I think that is poor reasoning. There aren't even enough starting QB's to go around. Matt Barkley has done virtually nothing to contribute to the Bills season as far as moving the needle on wins and losses.
mannc Posted January 11, 2021 Posted January 11, 2021 (edited) On 1/7/2021 at 12:18 PM, Thurman#1 said: I laughed when I saw this, then as I read further I realized you mean it? Good lord, they're not in the top ten. Look at the success percentages of the best in the league and compare it to average guys and it's generally a ten to twenty percent difference, and when an average kicker attempts maybe 30 kicks a year, and understanding that an awful lot of the percentage comes down to how many shorter or longer kicks the guy attempted ... Not even close. The highest-paid kicker gets $5M a year, the tenth best gets $3.86M a year. That's how valuable teams feel the difference is. 16th is $2.7M. Only 22 of them make more than a million a year. If they were that valuable, someone, either a smart GM or a dumb one, would offer Justin Tucker $10M a year. They don't. Simply because spending that much on a kicker doesn't give you an equivalent competitive advantage. How about a better pass rusher gets the QB to throw an incompletion on any play of that drive and completely eliminates the kicker even having a chance. These guys make a difference, but only on a very few plays and the percentage success differences are just not very large. The three points (or the miss) isn't a result of the kicker. It's the result of the work of every player on every play on the drive. The kicker has a part, but a lot larger part is whether the drive ends on, say the opposition 26 or their 42 or your own 35. Revisiting this post 36 hours after the Bills won their first playoff game in 25 years, largely because our kicker was better than the Colts’ kicker. Edited January 11, 2021 by mannc
Thurman#1 Posted January 11, 2021 Posted January 11, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, mannc said: Revisiting this post 36 hours after the Bills won their first playoff game in 25 years, largely because our kicker was better than the Colts’ kicker. Puh ... ... ... leeze! Revisit away, but claiming we won that game because of the kickers is missing the point by a million miles. The fact is that it was close because we couldn't pressure the quarterback, our many early three-and-outs, and many other problems. But if you were going to (absolutely wrongly) talk about kicks as more than one of many factors, you 'd have to point out that the most important field goal of the day was the one the Bills defense didn't allow the Colts to get in range for at the end. 2:30 to go when the Colts get the ball ... and they can't get to field goal range. That was the key field goal of the day, the one we prevented them from getting into range for. Again, every field goal is the result of the field position resulting from that particular drive. If the defense is a bit better it's a punt. If the offense is a bit better it's a much much easier field goal or a touchdown. Even on drives with field goals, that score isn't purely a result of the kicker ... nowhere even close. And it's not difficult to figure out who's valued. This is a capitalist league in a capitalist society. The position that gives you the largest competitive advantage is quarterback. Who'd have guessed that they would also be the highest paid, except anyone who spent a billionth of a second thinking about it. You can tell who's important by how well they're paid. You can tell who's not by how little they're paid. (Not to mention where they are drafted ... or for kickers, generally undrafted). The five highest paid positions are these: QBs pass-rushing guys who come off the edge LTs CBs WRs That's not a coincidence. It's a result of the fact that they are the positions that give the biggest bang for the buck, and kickers are far far below them. As I pointed out above, the highest-paid kicker gets an average of $5M a year (which is a bit below what Tyler Kroft gets). That's how important they're considered. Edited January 11, 2021 by Thurman#1
Bubba Gump Posted January 11, 2021 Posted January 11, 2021 In NE it was always massage therapist. Now that Brady is gone, it's prolly the first most important now. 1
JMF2006 Posted January 11, 2021 Posted January 11, 2021 I voted LS we need to lock up RF long term 6yrs 120m should get it done No seriously it depends on the team....in Philly it was the BU QB....... in KC its the TE....in Buffalo its a WR.
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted January 11, 2021 Posted January 11, 2021 WR. Interesting that the number of threads about how you don’t need a #1 wide receiver to win the super bowl has dropped to zero since we acquired one. 1 1
JMF2006 Posted January 11, 2021 Posted January 11, 2021 1 minute ago, Rock-A-Bye Beasley said: WR. Interesting that the number of threads about how you don’t need a #1 wide receiver to win the super bowl has dropped to zero since we acquired one. The thing is you need one that fits your scheme......the Bills top WR Diggs is a perfect fit.
K-9 Posted January 11, 2021 Posted January 11, 2021 Dominant edge pass rusher. If QB is the most important position, then the ability to consistently pressure the opponent’s most important position is the second most critical position.
papazoid Posted January 11, 2021 Posted January 11, 2021 i would argue in todays game.....an All Pro TE makes a bigger impact in the game. (CONSIDER HIM A COMBO OT/WR....lol) Tight End — Travis Kelce, Kansas City Tight End -- George Kittle , San Fran (IMAGINE EITHER OF THESE ON THE BILLS ....OH MY) Edge Rusher — T.J. Watt, Pittsburgh; Edge Rusher -- Myles Garrett, Cleveland (THESE TWO COMBINED FOR ZERO SACKS LAST NIGHT ) Left Tackle — David Bakhtiari, Green Bay Right Tackle — Jack Conklin, Cleveland
BarleyNY Posted January 11, 2021 Posted January 11, 2021 On 1/5/2021 at 11:54 AM, Magox said: I say CB. The most potent weapon on offense aside from the QB are the WR's and if you can essentially shut down the top weapon then it opens up a lot of things that the defense can do. I agree with this. Obviously Edge, LT and WR are all huge but with the level of holding allowed these days I gotta go CB. A stud CB and a stud LT both have to be consistent every play or it is probably a splash play by the other team. A stud CB and a stud DE can change the way a defense plays and allow much more flexibility in scheme. A stud CB checks both of those boxes. That’s my pick. 1
Orlando Buffalo Posted January 11, 2021 Posted January 11, 2021 I think a lot has to do with the team you are playing. You can scheme around any individual otherwise but I think a true dominating person like Ted Washington truly helps at all level of defense regardless of offensive scheme.
DCOrange Posted January 11, 2021 Posted January 11, 2021 I would say the O-Line as a whole is the most important after the QB. I voted C but I understand LT is almost certainly the more popular and maybe correct answer. 1
NewEra Posted January 11, 2021 Posted January 11, 2021 Edge rusher than cornerback imo. WR and LT up next.
mannc Posted January 11, 2021 Posted January 11, 2021 7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Puh ... ... ... leeze! Revisit away, but claiming we won that game because of the kickers is missing the point by a million miles. The fact is that it was close because we couldn't pressure the quarterback, our many early three-and-outs, and many other problems. But if you were going to (absolutely wrongly) talk about kicks as more than one of many factors, you 'd have to point out that the most important field goal of the day was the one the Bills defense didn't allow the Colts to get in range for at the end. 2:30 to go when the Colts get the ball ... and they can't get to field goal range. That was the key field goal of the day, the one we prevented them from getting into range for. Again, every field goal is the result of the field position resulting from that particular drive. If the defense is a bit better it's a punt. If the offense is a bit better it's a much much easier field goal or a touchdown. Even on drives with field goals, that score isn't purely a result of the kicker ... nowhere even close. And it's not difficult to figure out who's valued. This is a capitalist league in a capitalist society. The position that gives you the largest competitive advantage is quarterback. Who'd have guessed that they would also be the highest paid, except anyone who spent a billionth of a second thinking about it. You can tell who's important by how well they're paid. You can tell who's not by how little they're paid. (Not to mention where they are drafted ... or for kickers, generally undrafted). The five highest paid positions are these: QBs pass-rushing guys who come off the edge LTs CBs WRs That's not a coincidence. It's a result of the fact that they are the positions that give the biggest bang for the buck, and kickers are far far below them. As I pointed out above, the highest-paid kicker gets an average of $5M a year (which is a bit below what Tyler Kroft gets). That's how important they're considered. You're overthinking this. The fact is, having a really good kicker, as opposed to an average or above average kicker, is probably worth 20-30 points per season, and you never know when those points are going to show up. In Saturday's game, if you just switched kickers, the Bills probably lose that game. Obviously, if you switch QBs the Bills lose, too, but the question was, which is the most important position other than QB. Now I'm not saying I'd rather have Bass than Stephon Diggs or Tre White, but I do think the importance of place kickers in the NFL is massively underrated, especially in the playoffs, where the pressure is greatest and the margin for error is narrowest. For example, it's not crazy to think that the Pats would have won two less Super Bowl rings without Adam Vinatieri. Yes, kickers are paid less than those other positions, but that doesn't answer the question. NFL salaries are not a perfect marketplace. I would argue that kickers are drastically undervalued by NFL GMs as well as fans because they don't like the idea that football games (and championships) are often decided by scrawny little kickers who couldn't catch a football or make a tackle if their lives depended on it.
Bing Bong Posted January 11, 2021 Posted January 11, 2021 (edited) Really just your next best player in a handful of positions. But for the sake of the question I've always maintained an established WR1 makes life so much easier for the other WRs, QB, even the OL in the sense that he can nullify a great pass rush by knowing how to get open early. On 1/7/2021 at 4:06 PM, In Summary said: The inference being that if your starter is out and you have to play the backup QB, your season rests on the backup's ability. Going to your #2 LT, CB, RB etc would have less team impact. Think Allen to Barlkey vs Diggs to Brown. You can still have a good season with Brown. Brown's production would go up, but every WR on the depth chart would be going up against a mismatch corner provided it's a competent secondary and would suffer accordingly. Cole thrives with Diggs and Brown demanding the matchups they get. Edited January 11, 2021 by FormerlyPT5P
MrSarcasm Posted January 11, 2021 Posted January 11, 2021 (edited) On 1/5/2021 at 12:44 PM, mannc said: Bass has had a great year so far, but the Bills' games haven't been very close, win or lose. Bass has yet to attempt a kick to win or lose a game. Could happen in the next few weeks.... Disagree. That 54 yard kick against the Colts was huge. Edited January 11, 2021 by MrSarcasm
mannc Posted January 11, 2021 Posted January 11, 2021 1 minute ago, MrSarcasm said: Disagree. That 54 yard kick against the Colts was huge. Take a look at the date of my post... 1
MrSarcasm Posted January 11, 2021 Posted January 11, 2021 1 minute ago, mannc said: Take a look at the date of my post... Any other predictions Nostradamus? 1
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