The Wiz Posted December 31, 2020 Posted December 31, 2020 1 minute ago, fasteddie said: Nick Wright? He said he was top 3. Just nowhere near the other two and won't make it out of the first round.
Warcodered Posted December 31, 2020 Posted December 31, 2020 Just now, The Wiz said: He said he was top 3. Just nowhere near the other two and won't make it out of the first round. He's hoping he should be worried about his bet with Cowherd. 1
mannc Posted December 31, 2020 Posted December 31, 2020 Allen is the MVP, no doubt about it. Only myopic stat geeks would bother arguing against him, and honestly, JA’s stats are toe-to-toe with anyone...
The Wiz Posted December 31, 2020 Posted December 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, BringMetheHeadofLeonLett said: I just hope a Bills QB can throw for 300 yards someday... Is probably harder than you think to throw for exactly 300 yards. I mean, Allen missed it by 2 yards a few times so he decided to go for 400 and overshot that too. 3
The Wiz Posted December 31, 2020 Posted December 31, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, mannc said: Allen is the MVP, no doubt about it. Only myopic stat geeks would bother arguing against him, and honestly, JA’s stats are toe-to-toe with anyone... Not gonna argue any of this. My only point is that it goes to the "name brand". Allen right now is a "west Herr" brand. Not a "state farm" Brand. Edited December 31, 2020 by The Wiz
Scott7975 Posted December 31, 2020 Posted December 31, 2020 1 hour ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said: 2020 NFL strength of schedule (toughest to easiest): 1. New England Patriots .537 2. New York Jets .533 3. Miami Dolphins .529 T-5. Buffalo Bills .525 T-13. Seattle Seahawks .509 15. Green Bay Packers .504 T-16. Tampa Bay Buccaneers .502 T-18. Kansas City Chiefs .500 https://www.giants.com/news/2020-nfl-schedule-release-strength-of-schedule-formula-how-it-works And we are one of the teams making 5 of those teams schedules harder. 1
mannc Posted December 31, 2020 Posted December 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, The Wiz said: Not gonna argue any of this. My only point is that it goes to the "name brand". Allen right now is a "west Herr" brand. Not a "state farm" Brand. Oh, I’m not saying he’ll win it, but he definitely should. 1
Scott7975 Posted December 31, 2020 Posted December 31, 2020 1 hour ago, The Wiz said: And next year we get 8 games of team that are sub .500 this year (and 4 of them are against the Pat and Jets). https://www.buffalobills.com/schedule/future-opponents Falcons, Panthers, Texans and Jags are the other 4. Oh please keep Marrone one more year. 1
Doc Posted December 31, 2020 Posted December 31, 2020 9 hours ago, The Wiz said: He said he was top 3. Just nowhere near the other two and won't make it out of the first round. So much stupid. So you have a top-3 QB...but you'll lose to a team with a worse QB in the 1st round at home? 9 hours ago, Scott7975 said: And we are one of the teams making 5 of those teams schedules harder. Was going to mention this. Take out the Bills losses and their SOS becomes probably the hardest in the NFL.
fergie's ire Posted December 31, 2020 Posted December 31, 2020 9 hours ago, fasteddie said: Nick Wright? Slim shady said WORKING brain. 1 1
Orlando Buffalo Posted December 31, 2020 Posted December 31, 2020 In any other year Allen would be MVP but he had rough prime time games early in season and people remember that more than Rodgers clunker vs Bucs. I think Allen deserves it but it is hard to bash those who go Rodgers
billsfan1959 Posted December 31, 2020 Posted December 31, 2020 10 hours ago, mannc said: Oh, I’m not saying he’ll win it, but he definitely should. It should at least be a legitimate national debate between Allen, Rogers, and Mahomes. Allen should not be looked at as the 3rd best, just on the outside of the MVP debate, looking in. Not only are his overall numbers similar, in terms of total yards and total TDs, but he has done it against pass defenses that have an overall higher DVOA rating than the teams faced by Rogers and Mahomes. Against pass defenses ranked in the top 10 (DVOA): Allen: 5 games, 5-0, 136-200 (68%), 1623 YDs, 325 AYPG, 8.1 YPA, 16 TDs, 4 INTs Rogers: 5 games, 3-2, 110-165 (67%), 1270 YDs, 254 AYPG, 7.7 YPA, 14 TDs, 3 INTs Mahomes: 3 games, 3-0, 87-130 (67%), 1109 YDS, 370 AYPG, 8.5 YPA, 9 TDS, 3 INTs I'm sure Rogers or Mahomes will win the MVP, and either one would be deserving. But Allen would be every bit as deserving. 4 1
Gugny Posted December 31, 2020 Posted December 31, 2020 12 hours ago, Reed83HOF said: Are you new here? 2
Doc Posted December 31, 2020 Posted December 31, 2020 21 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: It should at least be a legitimate national debate between Allen, Rogers, and Mahomes. Allen should not be looked at as the 3rd best, just on the outside of the MVP debate, looking in. Not only are his overall numbers similar, in terms of total yards and total TDs, but he has done it against pass defenses that have an overall higher DVOA rating than the teams faced by Rogers and Mahomes. Against pass defenses ranked in the top 10 (DVOA): Allen: 5 games, 5-0, 136-200 (68%), 1623 YDs, 325 AYPG, 8.1 YPA, 16 TDs, 4 INTs Rogers: 5 games, 3-2, 110-165 (67%), 1270 YDs, 254 AYPG, 7.7 YPA, 14 TDs, 3 INTs Mahomes: 3 games, 3-0, 87-130 (67%), 1109 YDS, 370 AYPG, 8.5 YPA, 9 TDS, 3 INTs I'm sure Rogers or Mahomes will win the MVP, and either one would be deserving. But Allen would be every bit as deserving. The "pundits" don't take that into account, nor do they take into account Josh being injured for 3-4 games this year. That Rodgers and Mahomes have been crowned great QBs and Josh was a project is what is working against him.
billsfan1959 Posted December 31, 2020 Posted December 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Doc said: The "pundits" don't take that into account, nor do they take into account Josh being injured for 3-4 games this year. That Rodgers and Mahomes have been crowned great QBs and Josh was a project is what is working against him. Absolutely. A narrative developed about Allen based on lazy analyses and became gospel. I doubt it will ever fully go away, no matter how successful Allen is in his careeer. 1
mannc Posted December 31, 2020 Posted December 31, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: It should at least be a legitimate national debate between Allen, Rogers, and Mahomes. Allen should not be looked at as the 3rd best, just on the outside of the MVP debate, looking in. Not only are his overall numbers similar, in terms of total yards and total TDs, but he has done it against pass defenses that have an overall higher DVOA rating than the teams faced by Rogers and Mahomes. Against pass defenses ranked in the top 10 (DVOA): Allen: 5 games, 5-0, 136-200 (68%), 1623 YDs, 325 AYPG, 8.1 YPA, 16 TDs, 4 INTs Rogers: 5 games, 3-2, 110-165 (67%), 1270 YDs, 254 AYPG, 7.7 YPA, 14 TDs, 3 INTs Mahomes: 3 games, 3-0, 87-130 (67%), 1109 YDS, 370 AYPG, 8.5 YPA, 9 TDS, 3 INTs I'm sure Rogers or Mahomes will win the MVP, and either one would be deserving. But Allen would be every bit as deserving. To me, the deciding factor is that Josh Allen has, almost singlehandedly, turned around a moribund, losing franchise into one of the top three teams in football. As great as they are, neither Rodgers nor Mahomes can say that. Edited December 31, 2020 by mannc 1
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted December 31, 2020 Posted December 31, 2020 11 hours ago, The Wiz said: A lot can happen in an off season so I'm not going to start counting my chickens yet. NE lost Brady (which gave us 2 wins, 1 easier than the other). Lost to the Browns, Raven, Eagles, NE x2 and Jets with our backups. We had a few close games in there with teams that are worse now but you never know what will happen. Correct but its why we do PRE season predictions my man. make that bold statement Home Steelers and Ben? Falcons and Matt? Panthers and Teddy? Houston — can they fix what they broke? Colts and Old man Rivers? Miami and Tua? Or another with the 5th pick? NE*** lol 💩 💩 💩 JETS— WTF knows what they will do. away see 3 above for 🧹 Jags — new coach, rookie QB and unhappy players all around. Saints and Brees or some younger QB? Tampa and an even older Tom? Tennessee — I blame Covid their 2 weeks rest, Buffalo’s not knowing who to plan for and Josh fresh off the shoulder injury. KC same as above and 3rd game in 12 days. Maybe 2 losses. 10 hours ago, Scott7975 said: And we are one of the teams making 5 of those teams schedules harder. and making KC’s look tougher 😂 1 hour ago, fergie's ire said: Slim shady said WORKING brain. that I did Henceforth he should be referred to an Nick Wrong 😑 😆
Buffalo Junction Posted December 31, 2020 Posted December 31, 2020 32 minutes ago, mannc said: To me, the deciding factor is that Josh Allen has, almost singlehandedly, turned around a moribund, losing franchise into one of the top three teams in football. As great as they are, neither Rodgers nor Mahomes can say that. True, but we’ve also seen what happens when all three rosters are without their starting QB. The Bills and Packers have losing seasons without Allen or Rodgers. It makes sense to say that both are more valuable to their teams than Mahomes. The big issue is that MVP has turned into a team award instead of an individual award, and a lot of the voters aren’t national press that cover the entire NFL. There are local guys that only cover one team voting, and that seriously hurts Allen. Rodgers has been so good for so long that they’ll vote for him regardless.
billsfan1959 Posted December 31, 2020 Posted December 31, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, mannc said: To me, the deciding factor is that Josh Allen has almost singlehandedly, turned around a moribund, losing franchise into one of the top three teams in football. As great as they are, neither Rodgers nor Mahomes can say that. I won't take anything away from Mahomes in terms of ability. However, people forget that, when it comes to offensive talent on the field and at the coaching level, Kansas City is at the top. Mahomes had the luxury of sitting for a year in an Andy Reid system and then become the starting QB with, arguably, the best offensive talent around him in the NFL. Alex Smith threw for over 4,000 yds under Reid the year Mahomes sat on the bench. Mahomes is a great QB, but he started his career, and remains, in the best QB situation in the NFL. Reid was able to showcase Mahomes' abilities from the moment Mahomes first stepped on an NFL field. The results speak for themselves and Mahomes is perceived as a QB who started his career playing at a top level, without much thought about the advantages he had (and has). Allen is just the opposite. He was put on the field in his rookie year surrounded by, arguably the worst offensive talent, in the NFL. Add to that the ridiculous narrative that developed during the draft and followed him into the NFL, and the negative aspects of that first year formed a lens through which many people still view him. The offensive talent around him has improved since year one and he has a pretty good offensive team around him; however, I would still rank KC ahead in overall talent at the skill positions. Yet, many people still want to view Allen through the lens I described above. I put Rogers with Allen in terms of talent level around him on the offensive side of the ball this year. But Rogers also has a history of being productive regardless of the level of talent around him. Rogers, even after sitting for 3 years, was 6-10 his first full year as a starter. He was on a bad team; however, he still managed to throw for over 4000 yards. Since 2008, he has failed to win at least 10 games only once in a full season of play (2013 and 2017 he was injured). So, in 10 of 11 full seasons, he has won at least 10 games with varying levels of talent around him. The perception of him, rightfully so (IMO), is that of a QB who can win with different levels of talent around him. While the MVP really should be about the most value to the team for the given year of the voting, unfortunately, there are always other variables involved. This year, I think those perceptions of Allen put him at a disadvantage every bit as much as the perceptions of Rogers and Mahomes put them at an advantage. Based soley on this year, I would put Allen and Rogers on about equal footing in terms of value to their team, with Mahomes behind them. Edited December 31, 2020 by billsfan1959 1 1
Big Turk Posted January 1, 2021 Posted January 1, 2021 (edited) Comical that nobody factors in the level of competition faced. Rodgers 31st toughest schedule Mahomes 20th toughest schedule Allen 4th toughest schedule Allen has faced the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 7th(twice), 9th, 10th and 12th ranked pass defenses in the NFL. That's half the games against very good to elite pass defenses and he has pretty much shredded all of them. Edited January 1, 2021 by Big Turk 1
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