Allen leads NFL in lowest % of uncatchable passes from a clean pocket...Wow!

[Warcodered]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

 

I'm so in love with Allen, I'm hopeless.   I have to defend Allen against these "chip-on-the-shoulder" claims.   Yes, I know that when asked, Allen has said he'd like to prove some people wrong, but I don't think he's driven by that.   Allen is driven simply by wanting to be good.   I think he's pure, good-natured competitor, without the edge.   There's no hate, no nastiness in the guy. 

 

Aaron Rodgers is the guy with the chip on the shoulder.  He's been very frank about it for years.   He's perpetually pissed off that other teams didn't take him and pissed off that the Packers sat him for three years.   There are plenty of reports about the fact that some, even many, of his teammates don't like him.   HE's quick to blame others.   I don't say any of that to dismiss his greatness - it's taken me a long time to recognize it, but he is one of a very few true greats.   His decision making, his quick delivery and arm strength, his accuracy, his running ability, everything, is superb.  But he's not very likable.  Even his State Farm ads show his tendency to lord it over others, when he throws the tennis ball out of sight or hits his driver on the run, both actions being done to show up Jake.  

 

Allen doesn't have that edge about him.  He's not motivated to prove people wrong.  He's motivated simply because he's always been motivated.  He was born that way or raised that way.   He was a great student in high school, and a great, motivated athlete.   He didn't go to junior college to prove anyone wrong - he went because he wanted to play, and it was the highest level of competition that wanted him.  He didn't go to Wyoming to prove anyone wrong - he went because he wanted to paly and it was the highest level that wanted him.   He didn't come to Buffalo to prove anyone wrong - he came because he wanted to play at the highest level.   He doesn't plan with anger.   He rarely, if ever, says "I told you so."  He just wants to play, and play well.  

I appreciate the sentiment of this but I don't agree at all. Josh went to JC to put out tape and get a scholarship to a big school so his parents wouldn't have to pay for it. But let's also look at where he ended up going to. He gets offered two scholarships Wyoming and Eastern Michigan who drop theirs when he visits Wyoming. At the same time he tries one last time to get Fresno State to take a look at him they don't, he goes to Wyoming who just so happens to also be in the Mountain West Conference with Fresno State.

 

Now do to injury Josh doesn't get to play really at all his first year misses out on playing Fresno State. Second year Wyoming doesn't play them at all. Third year last game before Wyoming plays them he gets hurt and misses the last to games of the season Wyoming loses to them by 6. Also we lose those last two games and miss out on taking a shot at the MWC Championship.

 

How does Allen respond to this? He played in the bowl game that he didn't actually have to he'd missed the last two games with an injury even. In that game he absolutely demolished Central Michigan. He dropped 3 TDs on them in the first quarter and gets pulled from the game early.

[Warcodered]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Yes, my post said I know he said that.   But he doesn't say it with passion, and he doesn't say it often.   Sure, he remembers who didn't draft him, but he isn't great because of it.  He doesn't play harder against the Broncos because they didn't take him. 

 

Same as the Jordan story someone posted.   Does anyone seriously believe that when he was playing for his fifth NBA championship, he played harder because he didn't make the varsity in high school?   

 

 

I mean Jordan was known for looking for any reason/slight hell he even seemed to make some up just give himself motivation. That's really all it is finding motivation great players are able to do it, doesn't necessarily have to come from a chip but plenty of them do.

[Ralonzo]

2 hours ago, OrtonHearsaWho said:

I want to print out every single one of these eye popping tidbits and staple them to Nick Wright's forehead.

 

Please use a Bostitch to make sure!

 

[Shaw66]

9 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

I mean Jordan was known for looking for any reason/slight hell he even seemed to make some up just give himself motivation. That's really all it is finding motivation great players are able to do it, doesn't necessarily have to come from a chip but plenty of them do.

Yeah, the point about Jordan is correct.  He was that way.   And I agree, not everyone finds motivation that way, but some do.  My point is that Allen is not one who does.  He just doesn't seem that way.   When he said it about Denver, it was in response to a question on exactly that point.  He answered kind of matter-of-factly, as if to say, "sure, I remember that they didn't draft me."   He's not one of those guys who marked the Denver game on his calendarlast April.  

 

I think his entire history, from high school on, has been a career where he's worked as hard as he can and applied himself as well as he can to be as good as he can be.  He's naturally self-motivated.  

[Doc]

13 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

I mean Jordan was known for looking for any reason/slight hell he even seemed to make some up just give himself motivation. That's really all it is finding motivation great players are able to do it, doesn't necessarily have to come from a chip but plenty of them do.

 

I remember Parcells saying that on the morning of the SB against the Bills, he told LT to get into a fight with (left tackle) Jumbo Elliott, telling him he wasn't good enough and Bruce Smith was going to eat his lunch.

[Warcodered]

3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Yeah, the point about Jordan is correct.  He was that way.   And I agree, not everyone finds motivation that way, but some do.  My point is that Allen is not one who does.  He just doesn't seem that way.   When he said it about Denver, it was in response to a question on exactly that point.  He answered kind of matter-of-factly, as if to say, "sure, I remember that they didn't draft me."   He's not one of those guys who marked the Denver game on his calendarlast April.  

 

I think his entire history, from high school on, has been a career where he's worked as hard as he can and applied himself as well as he can to be as good as he can be.  He's naturally self-motivated.  

On the Denver interview we didn't actually get to see it so it's pretty hard to say anything definitely. I will say from what they said he was asked about this being a homecoming because Denver is so close to Laramie Wyoming. Josh could of easily agreed and talked about how he wished there could of been fans because people would of absolutely been there, Josh went in the exact opposite ***** direction.

[Man with No Name]

2 hours ago, Motorin' said:

It's unprecedented if you ignore all the precedents. It's funny, Terry Bradshaw and Troy Aiken, two pundits that evoked the "Josh is inaccurate" and "you can't improve accuracy" BS this season, had higher overall jumps in completion percentage and TD to INT ratio than Josh has had. 

People would be absolutely stunned to look at the stats of those two. John Elway a bit as well. 

[Motorin']

3 minutes ago, Man with No Name said:

People would be absolutely stunned to look at the stats of those two. John Elway a bit as well. 

People have discounted the idea that past qb improvement has any baring on qb improvement today, because it was supposedly a much different game then. As if the game being harder on qb's would make it more likely for improvement, and today's game that's easier on qb's would make it harder for qb's to improve. 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Motorin'

[stuvian]

what are the numbers when there's lint in his pocket?

[Man with No Name]

1 minute ago, Motorin' said:

People have discounted the idea that past qb improvement has any baring on qb improvement today, because it was supposedly a much different game then. As if the game being harder on qb's would make it more likely for improvement, and today's game that's easier on qb's would make it hinarder for qb's to improve. 

There are QBs who come from very pro style college offenses, led by very high level play callers and coaches. So sure, those guys have a leg up. For whatever reason, people want to ignore the circumstances Josh Allen came from. 

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Yeah, the point about Jordan is correct.  He was that way.   And I agree, not everyone finds motivation that way, but some do.  My point is that Allen is not one who does.  He just doesn't seem that way.   When he said it about Denver, it was in response to a question on exactly that point.  He answered kind of matter-of-factly, as if to say, "sure, I remember that they didn't draft me."   He's not one of those guys who marked the Denver game on his calendarlast April.  

 

I think his entire history, from high school on, has been a career where he's worked as hard as he can and applied himself as well as he can to be as good as he can be.  He's naturally self-motivated.  

I dunno, he definitely did the Newton first down point during the Patriots game on purpose...I’ve seen him take an edge from outside influences. 

[Shaw66]

52 minutes ago, Man with No Name said:

People would be absolutely stunned to look at the stats of those two. John Elway a bit as well. 

I was stunned when I looked at Elway several months ago.   He played, I believe, NINE seasons where his passer rating was average to below average, compared to the rest of the league.  Then he played four seasons where he was in the top 5.  

 

We are not seeing that, at all, with Josh.  Just a steady climb, taking big steps.   Big, big steps.  

[Doc]

1 hour ago, stuvian said:

what are the numbers when there's lint in his pocket?

 

Ha, that's a trick question!  There's never lint in his pocket!

[klos63]

3 hours ago, Motorin' said:

It's unprecedented if you ignore all the precedents. It's funny, Terry Bradshaw and Troy Aiken, two pundits that evoked the "Josh is inaccurate" and "you can't improve accuracy" BS this season, had higher overall jumps in completion percentage and TD to INT ratio than Josh has had. 

But that's not the topic of discussion, it's accuracy issues.

[Shaw66]

2 minutes ago, klos63 said:

But that's not the topic of discussion, it's accuracy issues.

But both completion percentage and TD to INT ratio are some indication of accuracy.  Virtually all inaccurate passers are low in this categories.  That doesn't necessarily mean that a guy who's low in those categories are inaccurate, but it's an indicator. 

[BearNorth]

Daboll has been part of success at every stop and is a imaginative and unpredictable play caller.  Jordan Palmer has worked on a lot of stuff, but he has also worked with Mahomes, Darnold and a host of others.  I really think Ken Dorsey's contribution is underestimated.  He was one of the most successful college QB's ever to play the game [surrounded by a great cast; e.g. Frank Gore].  He has been patient with Josh, and we can see the growth.

[Motorin']

8 minutes ago, klos63 said:

But that's not the topic of discussion, it's accuracy issues.

So the more interceptions, the more accurate the qb. Got it. 

[klos63]

10 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

But both completion percentage and TD to INT ratio are some indication of accuracy.  Virtually all inaccurate passers are low in this categories.  That doesn't necessarily mean that a guy who's low in those categories are inaccurate, but it's an indicator. 

I think people have different interpretations. My accuracy concerns were making receivers make a difficult catch when they're open.  A little behind on a crossing pattern, a little high on an out pattern... preventing yards after catch.  That's what I saw as an issue for Allen last season.

7 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

So the more interceptions, the more accurate the qb. Got it. 

Yeah, I don't think you get it, but you're not alone.

[Motorin']

14 minutes ago, klos63 said:

 

Yeah, I don't think you get it, but you're not alone.

 

Ok then. Great insight. 

[AKC]

15 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Watching him develop has been incredibly fun. The first year all those nuance things that worried me were still there. The second year he stopped bailing clean pockets so much and there were signs of improved touch (as compared to year 1 when he would throw even a swing pass to a back as hard as he could). The big step forward in year 3 has been the anticipatory throwing. Having more trust in guys like Diggs and Beasley plays a part there but that is why that seam ball to Dawson Knox the other night is almost the favourite throw I have seen Josh make. 

 

I know he can make the special play where he runs around and fires a fastball and shows off that arm.... but that throw to Dawson Knox is elite pocket quarterback play. Reading, anticipating, throwing with touch and precision. It was a throw Tom Brady or Drew Brees makes rather than a throw Brett Favre makes if that makes sense. 

 

So yea I fall into the category of being both delighted and surprised that Josh is at this point. I knew it was possible, I just thought it was unlikely. 

Without reservation Josh deserves all the applause he’s getting for working hard and smart to improve, but for me the contributions of Diggs, the WR room and Chad Hall share a sizable chunk of credit for the outcome . In 2020 we ended fielding a passive WR corps waiting for balls to land in their laps and instead our most important receivers are following Digg’s lead to treat every ball as catchable and fight to get to them. It didn’t all happen just in 2020 but Diggs walks the walk and set the standard for everyone on our team. This helps everywhere including on the stat sheets/ the rating agencies/Josh's confidence/etc. Josh has absolutely improved and his targets have absolutely improved their performance. In my mind it’s about a 50/50 contribution from each side.

Edited December 31, 2020 by AKC