Allen leads NFL in lowest % of uncatchable passes from a clean pocket...Wow!

[finn]

10 hours ago, klos63 said:

But coaching in college is a big issue, you don't always have the luxury of time to learn mechanics in the NFL, and it's not easy. Allen is a special case.  Keep in mind, he was still considered a top 10 pick pretty much all around, so it's not that people thought he was untalented, just had shortcomings.  I don't think anyone saw his performance this season happening so soon. It's really remarkable what he has done. Even with no major issues coming out of college, not many QB's play as this sustained level at any point in their career let alone in year 3. It's truly amazing.

Well, if his turnabout is amazing and unprecedented, why was he considered a top 10 pick all around? Did people think he would be a franchise QB even if he didn't improve as much as he did? No subtext here: I'd really like to know. 

[BearNorth]

Interesting I just looked up the combine, Josh is almost 3" taller, heavier, has bigger hands, faster, more athletic [better vertical and broad] than Mahomes, and same time in the 3 cone, so just as agile.  All he needs to do is win it all.

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by BearNorth

[klos63]

14 minutes ago, finn said:

Well, if his turnabout is amazing and unprecedented, why was he considered a top 10 pick all around? Did people think he would be a franchise QB even if he didn't improve as much as he did? No subtext here: I'd really like to know. 

We've seen a lot of busts with QB's drafted in the first round over the years. There are no guarantees. My point really is that, I expected him to have an excellent season this year, he's blown away all my expectations. His poise on the field is remarkable.  In his 3rd season, he's elite.  I don't think this happens a lot. Look at the other QB's in that draft. Lamar was MVP, but he's not in the same league as Allen in passing. Other QB's have had varying degrees of success and failure.

[BigPappy]

12 hours ago, BrownNgold said:

Good.  Because Josh will not let up untill he proves everyone wrong.

 

I'm fairly certain when he busted his shoulder up in his first year in Wyoming they took the chip from his shoulder and surgically implanted it in him, so it's not going away untill every doubter pays either physically, emotionally, or monetarily.

 

The dude is still pissed about being a zero star recruit out of high school, and wont rest till he gets his revenge.

 I'm going to apologize in advance because my inner nerd is coming out 😂. This reminds me of a Raymond Feist series that I read that started off with Magician Apprentice and Magician Master. At the End of Magician Master (I'm assuming you have not read these) the main character Pug after being told and treated throughout the book like he is so lowly and unimportant that he will amount to nothing  is so disgusted and angered by what he is seeing take place that he literally cracks open the planet with his magical powers. 

 

 JA's been told throughout HS and college he was never going to be good enough, never be accurate enough. It, as you said; pissed him off enough to light a fire in his belly to work his ass off and now, he's lit the whole NFL on fire and is going to burn the whole f'ing thing to the ground if he has to to prove everyone of those nah sayer's wrong

 

 Though Sci-Fi Fantasy is not everyone's "cup of tea", if you haven't read these two books, they are a great read.

Edited December 31, 2020 by BigPappy

[Ramza86]

11 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

But that is because they started with a faulty premise.  They started with the premise that Allen had received adequate coaching during his time playing QB.  He hadn't.  Compare what Allen had to what most of the top prospects had coming out and it is night and day.  So for most of the others, yes it would be true...because they already had coaches working on that with them.  Allen just kind of went out there and slung it.

 

Start by making a bad assumption and it will lead you to a faulty conclusion.

That makes the pick incredibly ballsy doesnt it?

 

To think that we just drafted a guy 7th overall who made some really big throws in college and thats it?

 

Tough to think that he would go anywhere near the 1st round if that were the case.

[finn]

8 minutes ago, klos63 said:

We've seen a lot of busts with QB's drafted in the first round over the years. There are no guarantees. My point really is that, I expected him to have an excellent season this year, he's blown away all my expectations. His poise on the field is remarkable.  In his 3rd season, he's elite.  I don't think this happens a lot. Look at the other QB's in that draft. Lamar was MVP, but he's not in the same league as Allen in passing. Other QB's have had varying degrees of success and failure.

In hindsight, you can see all the elements were in place: the physical talent, itself very rare, high football IQ, based on interviews and Wonderlick score, an almost ludicrous competitiveness, which you see come out in the crazy laterals, etc., and, finally, a powerful drive to prove people wrong (or himself right, as he has said). Have we ever seen those traits combined in one person? To put it another way, what's missing? 

[klos63]

Just now, finn said:

In hindsight, you can see all the elements were in place: the physical talent, itself very rare, high football IQ, based on interviews and Wonderlick score, an almost ludicrous competitiveness, which you see come out in the crazy laterals, etc., and, finally, a powerful drive to prove people wrong (or himself right, as he has said). Have we ever seen those traits combined in one person? To put it another way, what's missing? 

Nothing now.

[fergie's ire]

12 hours ago, klos63 said:

To be fair, Allen's progress has been pretty remarkable. Most football scouts, QB's, coaches that I heard speak on this felt it was unlikely for Allen to make this leap. It seems rather unprecedented.

Yes, it is difficult or even impossible to teach accuracy, but Allen has never been inaccurate.  Calling him inaccurate because of a low completion percentage is the kind of analysis (or lack thereof) that drives some of us crazy.  Being inaccurate means that you can't hit a small target.  Usually it means a mechanical problem needed to make the throw that leads to the inaccuracy.  Tim Tebow is a good example.  He needed a big windup to get the kind of velocity on the ball he needed, so it was not accurate.  That doesn't mean he would completely miss his target and hit the hospitality tent.  It just means that he can't fit the ball into small windows.  It's not a problem in college when the game is slower and players tend to get wide open.  But Josh has always had that really smooth quick throwing motion.  He came out in a great QB class and when they asked quarterbacks in that class to do things like hit the crossbar from the 30 yard line or hit a swinging tire, Josh was the only who could hit those targets.  Not only was he accurate, but he was the MOST accurate.  His problem was he would mess up his footwork and so not be in a good position to throw...so he would be accurate when he got his feet right, but sometimes completely miss his target because his feet weren't right....so inconsistent accuracy, not inaccurate.  There is an important difference.  His biggest problem leading to low completion percentage though, was reading defenses and decision making...not knowing where to go with the ball.  And those things can be taught.

 

Sorry for the longish rant about things we have heard before...but it just drives me crazy when I hear this.  (Not from you, Klos, but from analysts whose job is to cover football and who should do more homework than looking at a completion percentage.)  Hopefully, we will be hearing less of this from the Terry Bradshaws of the world going forward.

[DRA3196]

Safe to say the kid is developing and growing beyond expectations. Heard pre-draft his ceiling was off the charts. Also heard he would never reach said ceiling by several well known draft pundits. We spent the last 3 years watching him grow and develop right before our eyes. I am enjoying the current ride we are on but WOW does our future look bright. He had a lot to prove and is doing it weekly. Can't wait to see what's next

  

[Shaw66]

11 hours ago, Warcodered said:

Right I get that I'm just a little exasperated with these sports pundits saying this is beyond what they'd thought he'd be. Him hitting on his high ceiling is being one of the top QBs in the league otherwise what does having one of the highest ceilings even mean.

This is exactly right.  He was a possible number 1 overall pick, for Petes sake, and people talk about this as some kind of miracle.  All you had to do was watch him throw as a rookie. If you did and were thinking about what you saw, you knew this was probably coming.

 

Beane and McDermott knew before the draft. The question should be why didn't the Browns, Jets, Giants, and Broncos know?

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Nick Wright here--I would like to point out 

1 hour ago, BigPappy said:

 I'm going to apologize in advance because my inner nerd is coming out 😂. This reminds me of a Raymond Feist series that I read that started off with Magician Apprentice and Magician Master. At the End of Magician Master (I'm assuming you have not read these) the main character Pug after being told and treated throughout the book like he is so lowly and unimportant that he will amount to nothing  is so disgusted and angered by what he is seeing take place that he literally cracks open the planet with his magical powers. 

 

 JA's been told throughout HS and college he was never going to be good enough, never be accurate enough. It, as you said; pissed him off enough to light a fire in his belly to work his ass off and now, he's lit the whole NFL on fire and is going to burn the whole f'ing thing to the ground if he has to to prove everyone of those nah sayer's wrong

 

 Though Sci-Fi Fantasy is not everyone's "cup of tea", if you haven't read these two books, they are a great read.

My bro-in-law and sister who both have similar inner nerds such as you and I, named their latest dog "Gleep." If you know where that name comes from without googling it, well then, 'nuff said. 

[Shaw66]

45 minutes ago, fergie's ire said:

Yes, it is difficult or even impossible to teach accuracy, but Allen has never been inaccurate.  Calling him inaccurate because of a low completion percentage is the kind of analysis (or lack thereof) that drives some of us crazy.  Being inaccurate means that you can't hit a small target.  Usually it means a mechanical problem needed to make the throw that leads to the inaccuracy.  Tim Tebow is a good example.  He needed a big windup to get the kind of velocity on the ball he needed, so it was not accurate.  That doesn't mean he would completely miss his target and hit the hospitality tent.  It just means that he can't fit the ball into small windows.  It's not a problem in college when the game is slower and players tend to get wide open.  But Josh has always had that really smooth quick throwing motion.  He came out in a great QB class and when they asked quarterbacks in that class to do things like hit the crossbar from the 30 yard line or hit a swinging tire, Josh was the only who could hit those targets.  Not only was he accurate, but he was the MOST accurate.  His problem was he would mess up his footwork and so not be in a good position to throw...so he would be accurate when he got his feet right, but sometimes completely miss his target because his feet weren't right....so inconsistent accuracy, not inaccurate.  There is an important difference.  His biggest problem leading to low completion percentage though, was reading defenses and decision making...not knowing where to go with the ball.  And those things can be taught.

 

Sorry for the longish rant about things we have heard before...but it just drives me crazy when I hear this.  (Not from you, Klos, but from analysts whose job is to cover football and who should do more homework than looking at a completion percentage.)  Hopefully, we will be hearing less of this from the Terry Bradshaws of the world going forward.

And this is about as concise a statement of the accuracy issue that I've seen.   Excellent.  

 

And it really wasn't even a footwork problem.  It was all about having time to be in the right position. When Josh had time, he didn't have a footwork problem.  It was all, as you say, reading defenses and making decisions. Now that that has caught up to NFL quality, Josh's natural throwing superiority is on display.  

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, BigPappy said:

 I'm going to apologize in advance because my inner nerd is coming out 😂. This reminds me of a Raymond Feist series that I read that started off with Magician Apprentice and Magician Master. At the End of Magician Master (I'm assuming you have not read these) the main character Pug after being told and treated throughout the book like he is so lowly and unimportant that he will amount to nothing  is so disgusted and angered by what he is seeing take place that he literally cracks open the planet with his magical powers. 

 

 JA's been told throughout HS and college he was never going to be good enough, never be accurate enough. It, as you said; pissed him off enough to light a fire in his belly to work his ass off and now, he's lit the whole NFL on fire and is going to burn the whole f'ing thing to the ground if he has to to prove everyone of those nah sayer's wrong

 

 Though Sci-Fi Fantasy is not everyone's "cup of tea", if you haven't read these two books, they are a great read.

 

A lot of really great athletes take every perceived or imagined slight against them and channel into their performance and their almost obsession with proving them wrong no matter how great hey become. WR Steve Smith used to always talk about his scouting and draft reports:

“Every time u tell me I can’t, I won’t, or NO!!!! That fuels my YES I can, and I will!!!”

 

Michael Jordan throughout his career used the slight of not making the varsity team in his high school as told below:

 

"In November 1978, a 15-year-old "Mike" Jordan tried out for the varsity team at Laney High in Wilmington, N.C. A 5-foot-10 sophomore, Jordan was just one of many competing for 15 spots on varsity and 15 more on junior varsity. Jordan didn't make varsity, famously using the snub as fuel for his competitive fire."

 

And the list of others who do the same thing goes on and on and on...

 

The point is...Allen will NEVER forget this slight and will use it to fuel him to greatness...in large part BECAUSE of ti...because he is going to outwork, outstudy and out anything else every other player.

 

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Big Turk

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, BigPappy said:

 

 JA's been told throughout HS and college he was never going to be good enough, never be accurate enough. It, as you said; pissed him off enough to light a fire in his belly to work his ass off and now, he's lit the whole NFL on fire and is going to burn the whole f'ing thing to the ground if he has to to prove everyone of those nah sayer's wrong

 

 

 

1 hour ago, finn said:

 and, finally, a powerful drive to prove people wrong (or himself right, as he has said). Have we ever seen those traits combined in one person? To put it another way, what's missing? 

I'm so in love with Allen, I'm hopeless.   I have to defend Allen against these "chip-on-the-shoulder" claims.   Yes, I know that when asked, Allen has said he'd like to prove some people wrong, but I don't think he's driven by that.   Allen is driven simply by wanting to be good.   I think he's pure, good-natured competitor, without the edge.   There's no hate, no nastiness in the guy. 

 

Aaron Rodgers is the guy with the chip on the shoulder.  He's been very frank about it for years.   He's perpetually pissed off that other teams didn't take him and pissed off that the Packers sat him for three years.   There are plenty of reports about the fact that some, even many, of his teammates don't like him.   HE's quick to blame others.   I don't say any of that to dismiss his greatness - it's taken me a long time to recognize it, but he is one of a very few true greats.   His decision making, his quick delivery and arm strength, his accuracy, his running ability, everything, is superb.  But he's not very likable.  Even his State Farm ads show his tendency to lord it over others, when he throws the tennis ball out of sight or hits his driver on the run, both actions being done to show up Jake.  

 

Allen doesn't have that edge about him.  He's not motivated to prove people wrong.  He's motivated simply because he's always been motivated.  He was born that way or raised that way.   He was a great student in high school, and a great, motivated athlete.   He didn't go to junior college to prove anyone wrong - he went because he wanted to play, and it was the highest level of competition that wanted him.  He didn't go to Wyoming to prove anyone wrong - he went because he wanted to paly and it was the highest level that wanted him.   He didn't come to Buffalo to prove anyone wrong - he came because he wanted to play at the highest level.   He doesn't plan with anger.   He rarely, if ever, says "I told you so."  He just wants to play, and play well.  

[BillsToast]

1 hour ago, Ramza86 said:

That makes the pick incredibly ballsy doesnt it?

 

To think that we just drafted a guy 7th overall who made some really big throws in college and thats it?

 

Tough to think that he would go anywhere near the 1st round if that were the case.

 

He shouldn't have gone in the 1st. He was a true project. 

 

The fact that it all worked out is miraculous and frankly I couldn't be more pleased. 

 

On the other hand if he wasn't drafted in the 1st people wouldn't have much tolerance for all of his bad games in years 1 & 2. Sometimes good things happen to good people at just the right time. 

 

I'm happy it's the Bills and it's Allen. A perfect chemistry. 

[fergie's ire]

28 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

And this is about as concise a statement of the accuracy issue that I've seen.   Excellent.  

 

And it really wasn't even a footwork problem.  It was all about having time to be in the right position. When Josh had time, he didn't have a footwork problem.  It was all, as you say, reading defenses and making decisions. Now that that has caught up to NFL quality, Josh's natural throwing superiority is on display.  

Thank you.  And part of having more time is speeding things up.  That throw to Diggs against the Patriots is a great example.  He goes from rolling to his left to perfect position to throw seamlessly and quickly.  And yes, a better offensive line and being able to read quicker also helps.

 

[foreboding]

I would argue that the game slowing down is also why he throws so much better. He isn't forced to play with his hair on fire and knows what is going on around him, usually before the ball is snapped. 

[Doc]

15 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I'm so in love with Allen, I'm hopeless.   I have to defend Allen against these "chip-on-the-shoulder" claims.   Yes, I know that when asked, Allen has said he'd like to prove some people wrong, but I don't think he's driven by that.   Allen is driven simply by wanting to be good.   I think he's pure, good-natured competitor, without the edge.   There's no hate, no nastiness in the guy. 

 

Aaron Rodgers is the guy with the chip on the shoulder.  He's been very frank about it for years.   He's perpetually pissed off that other teams didn't take him and pissed off that the Packers sat him for three years.   There are plenty of reports about the fact that some, even many, of his teammates don't like him.   HE's quick to blame others.   I don't say any of that to dismiss his greatness - it's taken me a long time to recognize it, but he is one of a very few true greats.   His decision making, his quick delivery and arm strength, his accuracy, his running ability, everything, is superb.  But he's not very likable.  Even his State Farm ads show his tendency to lord it over others, when he throws the tennis ball out of sight or hits his driver on the run, both actions being done to show up Jake.  

 

Allen doesn't have that edge about him.  He's not motivated to prove people wrong.  He's motivated simply because he's always been motivated.  He was born that way or raised that way.   He was a great student in high school, and a great, motivated athlete.   He didn't go to junior college to prove anyone wrong - he went because he wanted to play, and it was the highest level of competition that wanted him.  He didn't go to Wyoming to prove anyone wrong - he went because he wanted to paly and it was the highest level that wanted him.   He didn't come to Buffalo to prove anyone wrong - he came because he wanted to play at the highest level.   He doesn't plan with anger.   He rarely, if ever, says "I told you so."  He just wants to play, and play well.  

 

I disagree about not having a chip on his shoulder.  Again I'll point-out the interview prior to the Broncos game where he was asked about growing-up close to the area and he said, unsolicitedly, "they could have taken me at 5."

[JTown]

10 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I disagree about not having a chip on his shoulder.  Again I'll point-out the interview prior to the Broncos game where he was asked about growing-up close to the area and he said, unsolicitedly, "they could have taken me at 5."

 

My take:  he does have a chip and he loves to play well and prove people wrong.  He is humble and extremely grateful for the opportunity Buffalo (McBeane) gave him.

[OrtonHearsaWho]

I want to print out every single one of these eye popping tidbits and staple them to Nick Wright's forehead.