So Unpatriotic. Just Pathetic and Dangerous For Our Country

[aristocrat]

Just now, Tiberius said:

There should have been a Russian investigation, that was fully warranted. You are using Trump’s bad behavior to justify him literally trying to throw out votes. Chasing your tail. Next you will be defending Trump next crime by saying Dems were screaming Trump tried to have votes suppressed! Yes, he is and was! Chase the tail 

I could understand an investigation but you so clearly forget the amount of literal false info that was thrown out there by the left that tore the country apart. How many times did mueller have to come out and dispute the fake leaked information? You’re defending your party like they did no wrong when it is very clear they did.  

[B-Man]

 

TYLER O’NEIL: 5 Great Trump Victories in 2020. 

 

 

“Trump achieved five great victories in 2020, opposing abortion, standing up for America, fast-tracking vaccines, peace in the Middle East, and more.”

 

 

 

 

 

[B-Man]

"Mr. Hawley’s challenge is not unprecedented... Democrats in both the House and Senate challenged certification of the 2004 election results..."

 

"... and House Democrats tried on their own to challenge the 2016 and 2000 outcomes, though without Senate support. ... Senator Barbara Boxer of California... briefly delayed the certification of George W. Bush’s victory... cit[ing] claims that Ohio election officials had improperly purged voter rolls... which Mr. Bush carried by fewer than 120,000 votes. Nancy Pelosi, then the House Democratic leader, supported the challenge.... The House voted 267 to 31 against the challenge and the Senate rejected it 74 to 1...  After the 2016 election, several House Democrats tried again, rising during the joint session to register challenges against Mr. Trump’s victory over Hillary Clinton in various states. The Democrats cited reasons ranging from long lines at polling sites to the Kremlin’s election influence operation."

 

From "Hawley Answers Trump’s Call for Election Challenge/The Republican senator said he would object to certifying the Electoral College votes on Jan. 6, a move that is unlikely to alter President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s victory" (NYT). 

 

 

So... in the last three decades, every time a Republican won, Congressional Democrats challenged the certification of the election, and every time a Democrat won, Congressional Republicans did not challenge the certification.

 

That certainly puts a different light on what Josh Hawley is doing!

 

 

 

Either challenging the certification is the norm or it is not. It can't be the norm for Democrats and abnormal when a Republican does the same thing. Either Congress has a role in looking into the workings of the state elections or it does not. It can't be that the role is to question Republican victories and rubber-stamp Democratic victories.

 

 

I can see — in the NYT write up — the basis for arguing that there actually should be a lopsided role. To fill out something I elided above: "In challenging those results Democrats cited claims that Ohio election officials had improperly purged voter rolls and otherwise disenfranchised hundreds of thousands of voters in the state...." 

 

The argument that's hinted at is that there should be heightened scrutiny where the challenge has to do with discrimination against a traditionally discriminated against group. 

 

 

 

 

[TBBills]

Come on B-Man this site has been doing great without your bull####.

 

Get back in your hole.

Edited December 31, 2020 by TBBills

[{::'KayCeeS::}]

It would seem to me the most PATRIOTIC thing to be is NON-SERVILE.

 

Partisanship... it always astonishes me.  You all just decide to worship at an altar.  God-fearing or atheist, or otherwise.  While whatever AUTHORITY you champion moves your limbs for you and tells you what spiel you need to foment.

 

That being said... everyone has the right to live their life as they see fit.  And I'm kind of an A-HOLE for throwing it it your face.

 

 

[Coach Tuesday]

16 hours ago, B-Man said:

"Mr. Hawley’s challenge is not unprecedented... Democrats in both the House and Senate challenged certification of the 2004 election results..."

 

"... and House Democrats tried on their own to challenge the 2016 and 2000 outcomes, though without Senate support. ... Senator Barbara Boxer of California... briefly delayed the certification of George W. Bush’s victory... cit[ing] claims that Ohio election officials had improperly purged voter rolls... which Mr. Bush carried by fewer than 120,000 votes. Nancy Pelosi, then the House Democratic leader, supported the challenge.... The House voted 267 to 31 against the challenge and the Senate rejected it 74 to 1...  After the 2016 election, several House Democrats tried again, rising during the joint session to register challenges against Mr. Trump’s victory over Hillary Clinton in various states. The Democrats cited reasons ranging from long lines at polling sites to the Kremlin’s election influence operation."

 

From "Hawley Answers Trump’s Call for Election Challenge/The Republican senator said he would object to certifying the Electoral College votes on Jan. 6, a move that is unlikely to alter President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s victory" (NYT). 

 

 

So... in the last three decades, every time a Republican won, Congressional Democrats challenged the certification of the election, and every time a Democrat won, Congressional Republicans did not challenge the certification.

 

That certainly puts a different light on what Josh Hawley is doing!

 

 

 

Either challenging the certification is the norm or it is not. It can't be the norm for Democrats and abnormal when a Republican does the same thing. Either Congress has a role in looking into the workings of the state elections or it does not. It can't be that the role is to question Republican victories and rubber-stamp Democratic victories.

 

 

I can see — in the NYT write up — the basis for arguing that there actually should be a lopsided role. To fill out something I elided above: "In challenging those results Democrats cited claims that Ohio election officials had improperly purged voter rolls and otherwise disenfranchised hundreds of thousands of voters in the state...." 

 

The argument that's hinted at is that there should be heightened scrutiny where the challenge has to do with discrimination against a traditionally discriminated against group. 

 

 

 

 

Oh goodie, the What-a-Bot is back.

[Tiberius]

Pence not joining Fascist Gomert in attempted coup 

 

(CNN)Vice President Mike Pence's lawyers asked a federal judge Thursday to reject a request from Rep. Louie Gohmert of Texas that attempts to force Pence to ignore electoral votes of several key states when Congress meets to certify the 2020 presidential election next week.

Pence argues that the legal issues raised by Gohmert, along with a slate of Arizona Republicans, should be addressed to the House and Senate (if they should be raised at all). 

Gohmert's lawsuit is a last-gasp attempt by Republicans to persuade Pence to interfere in the declaration of President-elect Joe Biden's victory and flip the election for President Donald Trump. The brief, filed with the Eastern District of Texas, does not say if Pence would entertain that possibility, but there is no public indication he will.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/31/politics/pence-gohmert-electoral-college-lawsuit/index.html

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Oh goodie, the What-a-Bot is back.

With a timely and entirely appropriate link, too. 

[Tiberius]

20 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

With a timely and entirely appropriate link, too. 

You think Gomerts attempt to simply have Pence declare Trump the winner is a smart move? 

Oh, and happy new year 

[WEATHER DOT COM]

Happy new year bot man

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

You think Gomerts attempt to simply have Pence declare Trump the winner is a smart move? 

Oh, and happy new year 

Happy New Year to you as well.  I hope you have an excellent 2021! 
 

I’m uncertain if you’re implying my comments had anything to do with your link re:Gohmert, but just to be clear, I thought @B-Man sent an entirely appropriate and enlightening link re: Hawley’s action and @Coach Tuesday response was uncalled for and unnecessary.  I was shocked, and perhaps outraged. 
 

As to your question, I think much of what is going on today is about the future beyond Jan 20.  I don’t know if it’s smart or not, and haven’t paid much attention to it. I think the path forward is clear—launch an all-out political assault on Biden and the legitimacy of his presidency and shine a light on his personal/political life. They’ll follow the same course of action with respect to Harris when the time is right.  
 

If Gohmert’s actions contribute in some small way to that goal, and it ultimately proves effective, than it was a wise course of action. If not, well, no harm done. 

Edited January 1, 2021 by leh-nerd skin-erd

[Backintheday544]

12 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Happy New Year to you as well.  I hope you have an excellent 2021! 
 

I’m uncertain if you’re implying my comments had anything to do with your link re:Gohmert, but just to be clear, I thought @B-Man sent an entirely appropriate and enlightening link re: Hawley’s action and @Coach Tuesday response was uncalled for and unnecessary.  I was shocked, and perhaps outraged. 
 

As to your question, I think much of what is going on today is about the future beyond Jan 20.  I don’t know if it’s smart or not, and haven’t paid much attention to it. I think the path forward is clear—launch an all-out assault on Biden and the legitimacy of his presidency and shine a light on his personal/political life. They’ll follow the same course of action with respect to Harris when the time is right.  
 

If Gohmert’s actions contribute in some small way to that goal, and it ultimately proves effective, than it was a wise course of action. If not, well, no harm done. 

Lol. This thinking is hilarious. 4 years ago it was Trumps your President work with him, the right would do the same to a Dem President.

 

Now it’s launch an All out assault on biden.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

22 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

 

I actually agree with this to the extent you suggest that opening the gates to the BBS is a bad idea and bad precedent.  I would love to go, and I actually think it's safer than, say, going to Wegmans.  But it's just not a good idea for the optical reasons you mentioned. 

I struggle with how anyone in favor of shutdowns see it any other way.  I have read a bit in the COVID thread (the one where dissent is frowned upon), and had an innocuous comment on Cuomo attending the game sanitized and removed from the ‘fans in attendance’ thread on the main board.  I see other comments dealing with the gov (pro and con) remain, but whatever.  
 

Anyway, our resident scientist here often refers to the data he’s seen re: COVID and prefers not to deviate from his perch when questions arise.  
 

Back to the game.  We’re in the midst of a surge, lockdowns for certain activities apparently will continue well into the future or at lest until Biden has been president for 100 days and spring arrives.  
 

I understand and accept that 6700 people in a stadium built for 70k can be distanced. I understand that testing is required a few days before.  If every fan attending magically appeared virus free it would be extremely safe. 
 

That’s not the way it happens though.  People will be coming from many different locales, stopping to eat, interacting with others, exposing and being exposed.  Once at the game, it’s not an exclusively outdoor event.  Meanwhile, the governor who has an appalling tendency to sound as if he’s talking to special needs individuals when he’s good on camera (and an arrogant and condescending prick when he is not), he’s sounding the alarm while saying, in essence “In spite of the extraordinary danger this virus presents and in spite of millions of NYers losing their income and ability to meet expenses, it’s really vital that I fly in an attend.”.  
 

We went the full year with empty stadiums, but as the surge comes, nows the time to risk it?  

[BillStime]

22 hours ago, aristocrat said:

I could understand an investigation but you so clearly forget the amount of literal false info that was thrown out there by the left that tore the country apart. How many times did mueller have to come out and dispute the fake leaked information? You’re defending your party like they did no wrong when it is very clear they did.  

 

Can't wait for the release of the fully unredacted Mueller Report. Then we will really be able to see how much "false info" was thrown into it...

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 minute ago, Backintheday544 said:

Lol. This thinking is hilarious. 4 years ago it was Trumps your President work with him, the right would do the same to a Dem President.

 

Now it’s launch an All out assault on biden.

I’ll assume you see the last 4 years of dem leadership as having worked with Trump and supported him.  Cool spin brev. 
 

As for the all out assault strategy, the last four years show that the opposition party attempting to destroy a president with baseless allegations is actually quite an effective strategy.  
 

 

 

 

[T master]

23 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Forget what? How the Dems acknowledged Trump won in 2016? 

 

No how long it took (4 yrs) for those that don't like him to quit whining and fabricating BS like the Russia thing with the paid for made up FAKE dossier and all not to mention every little BS thing that came down the pike and how all haters jumped on the wagon to do so . 

 

All the sudden it's "we need unity" Then one person saying that being judgmental isn't the American way when the actions of this person before were totally different from what they are now all of the sudden but while The Donald was in that's all there was was judging every single thing he did or said .

 

And will say some deservedly so !!

 

Now i will say that if the judgement at every turn is as harsh and unrelenting and the same for Joe I'd be good with it but JMHO i don't think because of what i've seen to this point it will be the same .

 

The media is already praising the change back to the same old (career politician) swamp thought and Time wants to make him man of the year FOR FREAKIN WHAT ? He's done nothing to deserve it to this point ! Next he'll be nominated for the Nobel peace prize with out doing a thing to get it that sounds familiar ...

 

Kind of like a participation trophy which is that mind set in todays world .

 

If the media digs into all the stuff that surrounds the Pres. Elect & his #2 then i will see it in a totally different light but actions speak louder than words !

 

I personally have always said "you can learn a lot if you keep your eye's and ears open and your mouth shut - just pay attention " so i'll just sit back and watch like i did the past 4 yrs & the last time Joe was in office and see exactly the actions he takes for the country and its future then and only then will that determine my reaction to what will happen because of his actions I'll save my whining for after if needed if not praise god for it !! 

 

The only difference is i will judge by actions not by hate like some have done in the past . I once told a younger person that absolutely hated Trump that "if the man gave you a brick of gold bullion you would B word because it's not shinny enough" and i believe that with all my heart .

 

But in no way do i expect you to judge him the way any one has the out going Pres. it's just not going to happen not because there isn't any thing there to look at but because the rose colored glasses only get brought out when it fits . 

 

 

[Backintheday544]

14 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I’ll assume you see the last 4 years of dem leadership as having worked with Trump and supported him.  Cool spin brev. 
 

As for the all out assault strategy, the last four years show that the opposition party attempting to destroy a president with baseless allegations is actually quite an effective strategy.  
 

 

 

 

Dem leadership overall did a good job working with Trump. Several major bi-partisan bills were passed such as prison reform and the 4 separate pandemic bills among others.

 

No Dem came out and said they will make Trump a 1 term President like Republican leadership said with Obama.

 

I don’t know what baseless allegations were made. The Mueller special investigation led to many people being found committing criminal action.

 

Ukraine led to the first bipartisan impeachment guilty vote in the Senate ever.

 

This isn’t like Clinton where the Republicans manufactured baseless allegation in Beghazi to and this is a direct quote for. Republican leader Kevin McCarthy: "Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right? But we put together a Benghazi special committee, a select committee. What are her numbers today? They're dropping."

 

Not to mention: “This may not be politically correct, but I think that there was a big part of this investigation that was designed to go after people and an individual, Hillary Clinton,” said Hanna, who is not a member of the committee. “After what Kevin McCarthy said, it’s difficult to accept at least a part of it was not. I think that’s the way Washington works. But you’d like to expect more from a committee that’s spent millions of dollars and tons of time.”

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

17 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said:

Dem leadership overall did a good job working with Trump. Several major bi-partisan bills were passed such as prison reform and the 4 separate pandemic bills among others.

 

No Dem came out and said they will make Trump a 1 term President like Republican leadership said with Obama.

 

I don’t know what baseless allegations were made. The Mueller special investigation led to many people being found committing criminal action.

 

Ukraine led to the first bipartisan impeachment guilty vote in the Senate ever.

 

This isn’t like Clinton where the Republicans manufactured baseless allegation in Beghazi to and this is a direct quote for. Republican leader Kevin McCarthy: "Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right? But we put together a Benghazi special committee, a select committee. What are her numbers today? They're dropping."

 

Not to mention: “This may not be politically correct, but I think that there was a big part of this investigation that was designed to go after people and an individual, Hillary Clinton,” said Hanna, who is not a member of the committee. “After what Kevin McCarthy said, it’s difficult to accept at least a part of it was not. I think that’s the way Washington works. But you’d like to expect more from a committee that’s spent millions of dollars and tons of time.”

Well, when you and I disagree on something as fundamental as what constitutes working well with a president, it seems silly to waste time and energy debating it.   I’ll leave you with the thought that if Biden, his family and those in his circle are treated as well as they treated DJT and his family, it will be a successful four years of opposition leadership.  I’d be comfortable with that.  

This is something we can agree on. 

[Tiberius]

1 hour ago, T master said:

 

No how long it took (4 yrs) for those that don't like him to quit whining and fabricating BS like the Russia thing with the paid for made up FAKE dossier and all not to mention every little BS thing that came down the pike and how all haters jumped on the wagon to do so . 

 

All the sudden it's "we need unity" Then one person saying that being judgmental isn't the American way when the actions of this person before were totally different from what they are now all of the sudden but while The Donald was in that's all there was was judging every single thing he did or said .

 

And will say some deservedly so !!

 

Now i will say that if the judgement at every turn is as harsh and unrelenting and the same for Joe I'd be good with it but JMHO i don't think because of what i've seen to this point it will be the same .

 

The media is already praising the change back to the same old (career politician) swamp thought and Time wants to make him man of the year FOR FREAKIN WHAT ? He's done nothing to deserve it to this point ! Next he'll be nominated for the Nobel peace prize with out doing a thing to get it that sounds familiar ...

 

Kind of like a participation trophy which is that mind set in todays world .

 

If the media digs into all the stuff that surrounds the Pres. Elect & his #2 then i will see it in a totally different light but actions speak louder than words !

 

I personally have always said "you can learn a lot if you keep your eye's and ears open and your mouth shut - just pay attention " so i'll just sit back and watch like i did the past 4 yrs & the last time Joe was in office and see exactly the actions he takes for the country and its future then and only then will that determine my reaction to what will happen because of his actions I'll save my whining for after if needed if not praise god for it !! 

 

The only difference is i will judge by actions not by hate like some have done in the past . I once told a younger person that absolutely hated Trump that "if the man gave you a brick of gold bullion you would B word because it's not shinny enough" and i believe that with all my heart .

 

But in no way do i expect you to judge him the way any one has the out going Pres. it's just not going to happen not because there isn't any thing there to look at but because the rose colored glasses only get brought out when it fits . 

 

 

People are always going to whine, so what? Welcome to democracy.  

 

Democrats raised serious issues about Trump and Russia. 

 

Trump trying to get states to throw out votes was just anothe another example of him sh itting on our democracy. It helps prove the point that Trump is corrupt enough to work with the Russians and their murderous anti-democratic  thug Putin 

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

People are always going to whine, so what? Welcome to democracy.  

 

Democrats raised serious issues about Trump and Russia. 

 

Trump trying to get states to throw out votes was just anothe another example of him sh itting on our democracy. It helps prove the point that Trump is corrupt enough to work with the Russians and their murderous anti-democratic  thug Putin 

Come on Tibs. There’s literally NOBODY who believes there was anything to the Russia collusion story. It’s over. It was a fantasy. Nobody’s even promoting the narrative anymore. Give it a rest.