Jay_Fixit Posted December 27, 2020 Posted December 27, 2020 26 minutes ago, A Firm Tree Does Not Fear said: nothing wussy about how the kid plays. funny though, how someone sitting on a couch watching can call a professional athlete a wuss. anyhow, one thing I do agree with is it is still early to claim good bad or otherwise at this point. 6-2 as a rookie on a pretty much rebuilding team is not a bad start to a career though. 6-2 is a team stat. Not a QB stat. And Tua has been quite underwhelming no matter what you say. 3
Mr. WEO Posted December 27, 2020 Posted December 27, 2020 5 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said: Last night I was listening to one of the sports channels on Sirius. They where talking about Tua playing with like 8 first round picks on offense alone at Bama and should we be evaluating qbs also on who they where throwing to as part of the evaluation... Then they brought up Josh and imagine his numbers if he played for say Urban Meyer at Ohio State. Saying there’s no way he’s there at 7 if he played for the Buckeyes or even Baker playing at Wyoming instead of Oklahoma no way he’s no1...found it interesting if we should start evaluating qbs on who else is on their team As an OSU alum QB in the NFL, Josh would be parking cars by now.
stinky finger Posted December 27, 2020 Posted December 27, 2020 5 hours ago, Don Otreply said: Tua has showed very little considering his supposed greatness at bama, it’s earlier days still, but he appears to be a wuss of a QB so far. Agree i just don’t see the tools. A low ceiling as my untrained eyes see it.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 27, 2020 Posted December 27, 2020 5 hours ago, Don Otreply said: Tua has showed very little considering his supposed greatness at bama, it’s earlier days still, but he appears to be a wuss of a QB so far. I think it’s possible he’s not fully recovered or didn’t have enough time post recovery to get back into his game physically. He’s had a couple of good games. That said, I would argue if you need a vet journeyman to come in and take over for your franchise guy to give your team a “spark”....maybe you don’t have your franchise guy. 4
Don Otreply Posted December 27, 2020 Posted December 27, 2020 1 hour ago, A Firm Tree Does Not Fear said: do you puff your chest out when you call a professional athlete a wuss? he may bust, he may shine. time will tell Oh please, not puffing anything, it’s just an opinion, relax, like you haven’t critiqued a pro athlete ever... nuthin but luv. 4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think it’s possible he’s not fully recovered or didn’t have enough time post recovery to get back into his game physically. He’s had a couple of good games. That said, I would argue if you need a vet journeyman to come in and take over for your franchise guy to give your team a “spark”....maybe you don’t have your franchise guy. Well said,
stinky finger Posted December 27, 2020 Posted December 27, 2020 1 hour ago, A Firm Tree Does Not Fear said: nothing wussy about how the kid plays. funny though, how someone sitting on a couch watching can call a professional athlete a wuss. anyhow, one thing I do agree with is it is still early to claim good bad or otherwise at this point. 6-2 as a rookie on a pretty much rebuilding team is not a bad start to a career though. I doubt he’s a wuss. theres just nothing that wows me seeing him play.
TH3 Posted December 28, 2020 Posted December 28, 2020 1 hour ago, inaugural balls said: I doubt he’s a wuss. theres just nothing that wows me seeing him play. As a person....prolly not a wuss....His qb game tho? ....I watched the whole game last nite....I can buy in on the wuss part...20 4 yard outs....makes Tyrod seem like a gunslinger
GunnerBill Posted December 28, 2020 Posted December 28, 2020 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think it’s possible he’s not fully recovered or didn’t have enough time post recovery to get back into his game physically. He’s had a couple of good games. That said, I would argue if you need a vet journeyman to come in and take over for your franchise guy to give your team a “spark”....maybe you don’t have your franchise guy. And because your interpretation is one likely to be shared by many is yet another reason why Flores shouldn't do it.
OrtonHearsaWho Posted December 28, 2020 Posted December 28, 2020 Watching Tua has made me appreciate Josh and his insane arm strength even more because sometimes it looks like it takes everything that Tua has to move the ball downfield. I had to poke around a bit to find it but I remember seeing this before the draft and did a double take...keep in mind this is before this season & without Josh's improved mechanics... 2
stinky finger Posted December 28, 2020 Posted December 28, 2020 1 hour ago, OrtonHearsaWho said: Watching Tua has made me appreciate Josh and his insane arm strength even more because sometimes it looks like it takes everything that Tua has to move the ball downfield. I had to poke around a bit to find it but I remember seeing this before the draft and did a double take...keep in mind this is before this season & without Josh's improved mechanics... So Tua is the Phil Niekro of QBs? 1 1
Mat68 Posted December 28, 2020 Posted December 28, 2020 The problem with Alabama and other dominate programs through out history is 2 fold. First, how much growth is left? What makes those programs so good is their ability to maximize talent. Second, they dont play NFL qb except for minor occassions if at all. Do they play from a sloppy/dirty pocket. Do they make tight window money throws. Those are the plays Tua rarely seen at Alabama. The plays you could grade in those areas werent great. Those were the areas that made Burrough a no question number 1. There is a reason only 2 heisman winners also won a Superbowl at qb. That happened in the 70's. Rodgers, juco than Cal. Brady was 5th string at Michigan. Brees went to Purdue and hes from Texas. Manning went to Tennessee.
GunnerBill Posted December 28, 2020 Posted December 28, 2020 8 hours ago, Mat68 said: The problem with Alabama and other dominate programs through out history is 2 fold. First, how much growth is left? What makes those programs so good is their ability to maximize talent. Second, they dont play NFL qb except for minor occassions if at all. Do they play from a sloppy/dirty pocket. Do they make tight window money throws. Those are the plays Tua rarely seen at Alabama. The plays you could grade in those areas werent great. Those were the areas that made Burrough a no question number 1. There is a reason only 2 heisman winners also won a Superbowl at qb. That happened in the 70's. Rodgers, juco than Cal. Brady was 5th string at Michigan. Brees went to Purdue and hes from Texas. Manning went to Tennessee. Tennessee were national championship contenders at the time Manning went there. They won 10 games the year before he arrived. They don't belong in the same category as those others. He played on talented teams in college. Not Alabama with Tua talent, granted, but talent nonetheless.
Chuck Wagon Posted December 28, 2020 Posted December 28, 2020 I don't mean to disparage Craig Bohl, the guy is very successful and he found Josh when he was way under the radar. But Josh showed how much he was capable of improving with coaching. If he had been in Baker's shoes at Oklahoma or at Bama / Clemson / Ohio St etc he would absolutely have been pick #1 and likely would have received significant hype about being an all time prospect. I think a lot of "experts" barely watched him and parroted opinions. 1
Billy Claude Posted December 28, 2020 Posted December 28, 2020 9 hours ago, Mat68 said: The problem with Alabama and other dominate programs through out history is 2 fold. First, how much growth is left? What makes those programs so good is their ability to maximize talent. Second, they dont play NFL qb except for minor occassions if at all. Do they play from a sloppy/dirty pocket. Do they make tight window money throws. Those are the plays Tua rarely seen at Alabama. The plays you could grade in those areas werent great. Those were the areas that made Burrough a no question number 1. There is a reason only 2 heisman winners also won a Superbowl at qb. That happened in the 70's. Rodgers, juco than Cal. Brady was 5th string at Michigan. Brees went to Purdue and hes from Texas. Manning went to Tennessee. I don't know if Tom Brady doesn't belong on the list either. He started every game his last two seasons at Michigan (though he did the weird platoon with Drew Henson) and led the big comeback win against Ohio State his last year. I remember the UM fans complaining about the platooning when it seem pretty clear that the offense looked a lot better with Brady than Henson. Lloyd Carr was just in love with Henson's measurables.
Don Otreply Posted December 28, 2020 Posted December 28, 2020 1 hour ago, A Firm Tree Does Not Fear said: the point I was trying to make was it is pretty ignorant to call a professional athlete a wuss. a wuss wouldn't step on to the field of play. this kid not only stepped on the field of play he had his hip bone shattered in to pieces while playing the game. not only did he recover but he was drafted and now starts for a professional football team. no wuss could manage to do that. call him a bust, he sucks or whatever, but a wuss? no, he's no wuss. I’m quite sure Tua is a great guy/teammate and has a fighters attitude, but his arm strength can be described as wussy, 53.5 mph max launch velocity, again 17 completions for 89 yards over three plus quarters, at this early point in his career his play is wussy, his attitude isn’t, but his play is certainly lacking panache, for lack of a better word, that may change for the better, but at present it isn’t. There is a difference between describing the individual vs describing the individuals play... Capisce?
Charles Romes Posted December 28, 2020 Posted December 28, 2020 Tua seems to have a ceiling of a top 12 quarterback. I am happy if any opponent has that kind of ceiling because it gives us a considerable advantage. Our QB has a ceiling of 1.
78thealltimegreat Posted December 28, 2020 Author Posted December 28, 2020 18 hours ago, NoSaint said: of course we consider that. Who isn’t considering it? unfortunately for josh, his college resume was also built playing AGAINST non nfl prospects- which was a consideration. do you think these factors aren’t weighed? If they are hurt it’s mostly in image- once benched it’s easier to pull the plug earlier later. I don’t think he’s a different caliber of player due to this move though I think the helmet they played for stands out to alot of front offices 16 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: As an OSU alum QB in the NFL, Josh would be parking cars by now. So Josh Allen couldn’t start at OSU over Braxton Miller and JT Barrett? Last I checked those two guys really are parking cars
skibum Posted December 28, 2020 Posted December 28, 2020 You would also have to factor competition into that kind of argument. An SEC QB has a lot of weapons to throw to, but they also have to play against blue chip defensemen. Like LSU cornerbacks, for example. I think it all comes out in the wash.
Mr. WEO Posted December 28, 2020 Posted December 28, 2020 1 hour ago, 78thealltimegreat said: I think the helmet they played for stands out to alot of front offices So Josh Allen couldn’t start at OSU over Braxton Miller and JT Barrett? Last I checked those two guys really are parking cars I think you missed the point there....
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