Mel Kiper, Jr. as GM candidate? Yeah, it's possible.

[machine gun kelly]

On 12/25/2020 at 5:45 PM, TBBills said:

Mel Kiper getting emotionally angry over Josh Allen hate for his evaluation back when he was drafted.

 

 

Why do you punish me?  My head about exploded watching that piece (I’m just kidding).  Lamar is better than Allen by everyone, but Mel.  I did like Mel’s passion and didn’t know that vignettes about the players from Wyoming going into the NFL.  Allen is good, but only because he has WR’s now......  WHAT?
 

Jackson had three fantastic TE’s last year, lost a couple and now they can only win if he runs for over 100 yards a game, not to mention what the RB’s are doing this year in Baltimore.  
 

Yeah Allen is nothing, just 4000 yards in 14 games, 69% completion record and 30 TD’s to 9 picks, oh and don’t forget another 383 rushing by Allen.  Compare that to Jackson at 2468 yards, 65% comp. %, and 8 picks.  Jackson now has 828 yards rushing.

 

Hmmm, which one is the true QB who can run, but is evolving into one of the most dangerous QB’s in the league passing.  Oh yeah it has to be the WR’s.  That’s like saying Joe Montana is only the GOAT because of Jerry Rice.  It’s a team sport.

 

Anyway, I know this Schlick from the ESPN is a hit take piece, but that’s why I won’t watch them.

 

I don’t mind Mel as many people do especially when he does this...

 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

That's flat out nonsense.

 

There are plenty of GMs who are obviously better than others, and on a long-term basis.

 

And the whole "lottery" thing is butt-stupid on the face of it. If it were a lottery we'd see as many 7th round starters as we do 1st rounders, and we don't. Is there some luck involved, particularly in terms of who's there when you draft? Sure. But that doesn't mean it's not a system that it's perfectly possible to do better on if you do it well. It is.

 

Even the best will make mistakes. But they'll make fewer of them than average and they'll do other things to improve their chances, such as making intelligent trades for picks and doing more and smarter homework on the guys they pick than many do.

 

Nonsense also on your idea that "Mayock loved JaMarcus Russell." He didn't. He liked his arm and his pro day.

 

From a 2010 Florio Interview:  “Let me give you an example of the other side of it,” Mayock said this morning on The Dan Patrick Show. “The best Pro Day I ever saw as a quarterback was JaMarcus Russell. . . . I’ve never seen a quarterback throw the football like that in my life, but I still couldn’t take him in the first round — the guy doesn’t care about football. He doesn’t have the passion for the game, doesn’t have the work ethic, I don’t want him. But by the way, it was a pretty impressive Pro Day.”

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/30/mayock-jamarcus-russells-pro-day-a-cautionary-tale/

 

 

Mayock said that three years after he was drafted.  Revisionist history and he was not saying that in 2007 right after the draft.

 

I will give you its more of a weighted lottery. The bust rate increases with every round for sure. And the pro bowl and HOF numbers are more frequent in the earlier rounds.  

But the fact of the matter is these guys have no special talent to predict future performance.  They all miss on guys terribly. 

How many GMs passed on Brady, Wilson, Brees, and Rodgers? You can't write the history of the NFL without those guys and they were passed over by just about every GM and multiple times in many cases.

[billsfan89]

On 12/25/2020 at 8:35 PM, Gugny said:

 

Then why is Brandon Beane considered the second rising of Christ for picking Allen?  Kiper had Cody Ford projected as a 5th rounder.  Dawson Knox wasn't even on his radar.  We see how those two picks turned out.

 

Brandon Beane did a lot more than just pick Allen. But I also don't know where the he'll you got that Kiper had Ford a 5th round projection. Kiper had Ford going 14 overall to the Falcons in his final mock and Ford graded among the best available when the Bills picked at pick 38. Kiper also had a 3rd round grade on Knox. 

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Mayock said that three years after he was drafted.  Revisionist history and he was not saying that in 2007 right after the draft.

 

 

 

Oh, it's revisionist history? Gotcha. Well then you'll have no problem whatsoever finding the link to where Mayock said he loved JaMarcus Russell. Not that he loved his arm or his pro day. That he loved JaMarcus.

 

I'll be waiting with interest, because in the little fifteen minutes of research I did I found nobody saying Mayock had been wrong about JaMarcus and a bunch saying he'd been exactly right. Mayock had him as the #1 QB in his class ... because his class sucked. The best in that class look to have been JaMarcus, Brady Quinn, Kevin Kolb, Drew Stanton, Troy Smith or Tyler Thigpen. Or of course, Trent Edwards. Jordan Palmer at least became a good QB coach.

 

Only thing I found with the quick look was a Football Outsiders article that collected contemporary takes on JaMarcus from just before he was drafted. The article is gone, but the comments aren't, and a number of folks pointed out that Mayock had been right on with work ethic problems. 

 

But you're so totally sure that you were right when you said that Mayock loved JaMarcus that when someone points out that you're wrong ... you double down and call it revisionist history. With such a strong comeback, you must have a ton of evidence. Even though you didn't produce the slightest iota of any in either post. I'll be waiting for the link. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said:

 

 

I will give you its more of a weighted lottery. The bust rate increases with every round for sure. And the pro bowl and HOF numbers are more frequent in the earlier rounds.  

 

But the fact of the matter is these guys have no special talent to predict future performance.  They all miss on guys terribly. 

How many GMs passed on Brady, Wilson, Brees, and Rodgers? You can't write the history of the NFL without those guys and they were passed over by just about every GM and multiple times in many cases.

 

 

 

And again, more nonsense. Yes, they all miss terribly. Same as the greatest poker players in the world don't win every hand. GMs miss terribly because what they do is extremely difficult. And yet some GMs clearly do it better than others. 

 

How many GMs passed on Brady, Wilson, Brees and Rodgers? And how many didn't on Andrew Luck and Peyton Manning? You said Ozzie was better than the others. You're right about that, though there are about five to seven others who are also better. But Ozzie was among those who passed on Brady, Wilson, Brees and Rodgers. Yes, they all make mistakes, including the good ones. No, there will never be a perfect drafter or anywhere close, it's far far too complex and uncertain. And yet the Steelers draft better year after year, despite nearly always drafting from the last ten spots. There are a bunch of GMs who do it better. A few who do it worse and most in the middle, pretty average.

 

The bell curve, in other words. Which is what should be expected.

[97bills]

On 12/23/2020 at 1:36 PM, TheBillsOrDie said:

My Uncle Dave watches a lot of football, he could easily be a GM  

Heck sometimes I thank I can 

[Gugny]

6 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Brandon Beane did a lot more than just pick Allen. But I also don't know where the he'll you got that Kiper had Ford a 5th round projection. Kiper had Ford going 14 overall to the Falcons in his final mock and Ford graded among the best available when the Bills picked at pick 38. Kiper also had a 3rd round grade on Knox. 

 

Totally untrue.  Kiper never once mentioned Knox and Ford was projected as a 5th round guard, not tackle.  

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Totally untrue.  Kiper never once mentioned Knox and Ford was projected as a 5th round guard, not tackle.  

 

I don't know what Kiper thought of Knox but he had Ford graded as a second round pick and his 3rd best guard behind Jonah Williams who he also projected as an inside guy and Chris Lindstrom. 

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

 

Totally untrue.  Kiper never once mentioned Knox and Ford was projected as a 5th round guard, not tackle.  

 

This is Kipers quotes about Ford and Knox.

 

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/sports/football/nfl/bills/2019/04/28/buffalo-bills-nfl-draft-team-grades-2019-ed-oliver-cody-ford-singletary-espn-mel-kiper-experts/3605488002/

 

"He’s a mauler in the run game, and I thought he could go in the top 20 picks. That’s a steal."

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/news/mock-draft-watch-8-0

 

Knox is one of the most underrated offensive prospects in this class. In this scenario, we're getting help for Josh Allen with Knox and wideout N'Keal Harry at No. 40. (Kiper)

[Thurman#1]

On 12/28/2020 at 2:46 AM, Ethan in Portland said:

Mayock said that three years after he was drafted.  Revisionist history and he was not saying that in 2007 right after the draft.

On 12/28/2020 at 5:22 AM, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Oh, it's revisionist history? Gotcha. Well then you'll have no problem whatsoever finding the link to where Mayock said he loved JaMarcus Russell. Not that he loved his arm or his pro day. That he loved JaMarcus.

 

I'll be waiting with interest, because in the little fifteen minutes of research I did I found nobody saying Mayock had been wrong about JaMarcus and a bunch saying he'd been exactly right. Mayock had him as the #1 QB in his class ... because his class sucked. The best in that class look to have been JaMarcus, Brady Quinn, Kevin Kolb, Drew Stanton, Troy Smith or Tyler Thigpen. Or of course, Trent Edwards. Jordan Palmer at least became a good QB coach.

 

Only thing I found with the quick look was a Football Outsiders article that collected contemporary takes on JaMarcus from just before he was drafted. The article is gone, but the comments aren't, and a number of folks pointed out that Mayock had been right on with work ethic problems. 

 

But you're so totally sure that you were right when you said that Mayock loved JaMarcus that when someone points out that you're wrong ... you double down and call it revisionist history. With such a strong comeback, you must have a ton of evidence. Even though you didn't produce the slightest iota of any in either post. I'll be waiting for the link.

 

 

 

Gee, what a surprise, you haven't found a link yet, hunh? And then you disappear?

 

What a shock.

 

Thing is, if there isn't a link, how come you posted with such confidence that Mayock loved JaMarcus and then doubled down, saying Mayock's (correct) summary of his position was revisionist history?

 

Still waiting. If you find some links saying that he loved JaMarcus (not his arm or his pro day, but the whole package) I'll be here.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by Thurman#1

[ganesh]

On 12/24/2020 at 7:48 AM, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

After reading the Forbes article, I will say this, having the 1st overall pick become a bust is much worse than the #7 pick becoming a bust.  Was more risk for Cleveland as Allen was likeliest the riskiest selection, he certainly had the most potential upside, but also the most risk.  At #7, not so tough a choice to make.

especially when the top two 'sure' QBs were off the board.   The choice was between Rosen, Allen and Jackson.  It could have been any of them at 7

[DrDawkinstein]

Not sure where else to put this, but BIG PROPS to Louis Riddick last night for spending a good 10 minutes just ABSOLUTELY DRAGGING the Pats for their poor drafting and poor player development on the broadcast. Fun listening. Love it.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

I'm putting this here because his name has been mentioned a lot  

https://sports.yahoo.com/mike-mayock-disappointed-productivity-rookies-225851370.html

 

Mike Mayock: I was disappointed in the productivity of our rookies

 

Apparently General Manager Mike Mayock wasn’t thrilled with the results of his own picks.

“I was disappointed in the productivity of our rookies,” Mayock said in an interview with Eddie Paskal of the Raiders’ website. “I’ll be the first one to admit that. You can make excuses. You can have a conversation why.”

 

Our picks?  Don[t you mean YOUR picks? 

 

[wppete]

Mel Kiprer the fast talker. Lay off the coffees Mel!

[BillsShredder83]

On 12/25/2020 at 5:45 PM, TBBills said:

Mel Kiper getting emotionally angry over Josh Allen hate for his evaluation back when he was drafted.

 

 

Solid reminder why i havent turned on espn other than MNF in 10+years.  Dude after Mel compared Allen to Wentz, and said hed take Lamar over Josh.  Does anyone think Buff would be better with Lamar? no? ok, does anyone think the Ravens wouldnt be better with josh under center? no? exactly.

[ganesh]

> During the session, NFL Network showed a clip of Allen throwing on both knees from the 40 and hitting the goal-post.

 

this !

[JerseyBills]

On 12/23/2020 at 2:30 PM, DrDawkinstein said:

Louis Riddick was an NFL Player and Front Office executive who then made the switch into TV. Younger brother to former-Bill Robb Riddick, he grew up in and around the NFL.

 

Mike Mayock was at least an NFL Player for a couple years.

 

Kiper has done nothing except write some articles from his basement.

Ya but the man knows the game. He probably forgot more about evaluating talent then most of us will ever know.... I'd definitely be intrigued 

[BringBackFergy]

On 1/29/2021 at 9:11 AM, BillsShredder83 said:

Solid reminder why i havent turned on espn other than MNF in 10+years.  Dude after Mel compared Allen to Wentz, and said hed take Lamar over Josh.  Does anyone think Buff would be better with Lamar? no? ok, does anyone think the Ravens wouldnt be better with josh under center? no? exactly.

Dude?! Dude!!! Show me the link where Uncle Mel would choose Lamar over Josh. He had Josh as his #1 rated QB. Was Lamar his #1/2 QB?  Take not of Mayock’s horrible draft last year. Then come back and explain how Mel couldn’t be a better GM than Mayock. 

[BillsShredder83]

2 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

Dude?! Dude!!! Show me the link where Uncle Mel would choose Lamar over Josh. He had Josh as his #1 rated QB. Was Lamar his #1/2 QB?  Take not of Mayock’s horrible draft last year. Then come back and explain how Mel couldn’t be a better GM than Mayock. 

Lol you read that too quick. Some guy I never saw before was 💩ING on josh saying the same stuff we always hear. Mel's fun though, caffeine chugging certified Martian 😆😆 hard to dislike him with always having joshs back. Thank God 6 other teams didn't listen!

[pennstate10]

Neither Kiper nor Mcshay have ever been employed as football talent evaluators. Ie a scout. 
 

Kiper is a hard worker and has good connections, but he has no skill at evaluating players himself. He tells you what nfl scouts tell him

 

mcshay is simply clueless, and pretends that he knows what he is doing as a talent evaluator. 
 

Just like any craft, you learn football talent evaluation from the ground up. And being held responsible for your evaluations. 
 

these guys aren’t that. 
 

Pretending these guys know what they’re doing as a GM would be like pretending some random TV reality show star like Kim Kardashian would be able to do a good job as president of the US. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by pennstate10
Clarity

[Nextmanup]

Kiper is laughed at as an amateur by the NFL industry insiders.

 

I don't see an owner hiring him as GM, nor should they.

He has absolutely no background of any kind to take on that job.