My biggest issue with the demise of the Patriots dynasty when it comes to the media

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, What a Tuel said:

 

You are missing the point. The defense wasn't #1 in the league in 2016, 2017, 2018 when they made the super bowl either. You are touting the lack of their defense as a contributing factor, and I'd agree. Where we disagree is if they had a Tom Brady led offense, would they be able to overcome that? Absolutely. They did it in 2016, 2017, and 2018.

 

 

But in 2019 take away the defensive brilliance and they miss the playoffs. They are worse with Cam than they would be with Tom. But the only reason they made the dance with Tom last year was by playing exceptional defense and special teams. I am totally unconvinced they win double digits in 2020 if you keep everything else as is and just swap Tom back in. They win 8 or 9 and still miss the playoffs IMO.

[Thurman#1]

18 hours ago, SCBills said:

 

How is this even close to comparable?

 

First off, NE can't draft WR's and when they tried to trade for one, Belichick sent a 2nd out the door for Sanu.  No more discounts for upper echelon WR's coming to NE without Brady.

 

Second, yes, they lost some players on defense, but we also lost Star and DB depth, while playing half the season with no linebackers.

 

Someone said it perfectly last night before MNF.... The Pats are just another team now.  They are searching for a QB, like everyone else.  They have some good players and weak areas, like everyone else...

 

 

I'd argue that spending one 1st round pick on WRs (N'Keal Harry) in Belichick's 20 drafts has a major part of that bad record in drafting WRs, not to mention their tendency to want to rely on TEs rather than WRs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FieldGeneral]

They should have never signed Cam. Outside of a few games, he passes for 150 average and immensely hinders their offense. Nobody is afraid of his arm anymore. Yes their talent on offense is also poor, but even the Jets seem to have more gunpowder in their offense. 

[CLTbills]

13 hours ago, streetkings01 said:

Many of whom were starters? Only 3 were starters.....Hightower, Chung and Cannon. How much of a difference would they have made? Defense wasn’t the issue, not having #12 back there to save the day was.

Again. I'm not saying that was the only issue. When a team isn't playing well, it's not usually one thing. But saying that the opt-outs didn't affect them and that the ONLY issue is not having #12, is just not true. Not having #12 IS definitely part of the problem, but not the only one.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, CLTbills said:

Again. I'm not saying that was the only issue. When a team isn't playing well, it's not usually one thing. But saying that the opt-outs didn't affect them and that the ONLY issue is not having #12, is just not true. Not having #12 IS definitely part of the problem, but not the only one.

 

 

 

They also lost numerous players off that D in free agency. Shelton, Collins, Van Noy to name but three. They made the playoffs in 2019 with a terrific D and STs and Brady avoiding big mistakes. It was almost back to rookie year Brady. There is much more to the drop back this year than just losing #12.

[mjt328]

I don't really care what the primary reason is for their demise.  I'm just thrilled it's finally happened.

 

And truthfully, this media narrative is probably the best thing for us.  The longer that New England's front office believes their downfall is only due to opt-outs, the less priority they will put on drafting a new franchise QB.  And that will ultimately mean them getting stuck in endless 6-10, 7-9, 8-8 win cycles.  

 

Nobody should understand QB purgatory more than Bills fans.  

 

[atlbillsfan1975]

NE fans are delusional, kind of like we were after Kelly hung it up. We thought we’d find another QB and be right back where we were. Belichick is an average drafter, and his way of doing things is turning guys off. Brady’s presence and “buy in” to Belichick’s process was a big part of the success. Look at Gronk, there is no big indication of how players feel than they would rather retire than play for Belichick. Belichick’s way isn’t fun, and now that he isn’t winning, it will become harder to attract vets looking for rings. 

[Doc]

8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Defense really was part of the issue. 

 

They went from far and away the best in the league last year to eleventh this year. Still good but nowhere near good enough to make up for offensive problems.

 

They also had 36 takeaways last year, compared to 20 over 14 games this year. That's huge.

 

Their defense was dominating early in the season.  And like last year, it's fading as the season wears on.  And Belicheat is a defensive genius.  If there's one place they can overcome a couple lost starters, it's defense.

 

8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Up to this year cutting or trading Stafford was prohibitive. If they'd cut him this year, he'd have cost them $47.5M in dead cap. Next year, though, it's very doable. $24.85M in dead cap, but they'd avoid paying his $9.5M salary, a $500K workout bonus and a $10M roster bonus.

 

Very doable if they want to go that way.

 

Sure, it's doable if you want to have a $25M cap hit and no QB.  And likely no fans showing up.

[Thurman#1]

On 12/23/2020 at 10:19 PM, Doc said:

 

Their defense was dominating early in the season.  And like last year, it's fading as the season wears on.  And Belicheat is a defensive genius.  If there's one place they can overcome a couple lost starters, it's defense.

 

 

Sure, it's doable if you want to have a $25M cap hit and no QB.  And likely no fans showing up.

 

 

It'd be $24.85M in dead cap, but again, they'd also avoid paying his $9.5M salary, a $500K bonus and a $10M roster bonus, a total of $20M saved. Financially very doable. That's why Spotrac has 2021 listed as a potential out for Stafford.

 

And you watch, if Stafford goes somewhere with a program that has a clue, he's going to unexplainably be better than he ever was when he was working in that dysfunctional Detroit environment. 

 

And if Stafford went to the Pats, he'd be going to a team that is going to have a sensational chance at picking up FAs to fill their many holes. The Pats optouts killed them this year but also put them in a much better situation for next year. They have the 4th most unused cap space this year ($25M), and they will roll it over into next year. In a year that looks like it will have very little money available for teams league-wide, the Pats will have plenty in a buyer's market. They'll be able to shore up receivers, TEs, and fill their holes about as well as anyone in the league.

Edited December 24, 2020 by Thurman#1

[ghostwriter]

Garoppolo will end up in New England next year.. Either the 49ers let him go or Belichick sends them a mid round pick for him. I do think the Patriots will be considerably better.. Obviously the Bills should win the AFCE again but I don’t think the Patriots will just roll over..

[atlbillsfan1975]

On 12/23/2020 at 7:47 AM, atlbillsfan1975 said:

NE fans are delusional, kind of like we were after Kelly hung it up. We thought we’d find another QB and be right back where we were. Belichick is an average drafter, and his way of doing things is turning guys off. Brady’s presence and “buy in” to Belichick’s process was a big part of the success. Look at Gronk, there is no bigger indication of how players feel, than they would rather retire than play for Belichick. Belichick’s way isn’t fun, and now that he isn’t winning, it will become harder to attract vets looking for rings. 

 

[Doc]

6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

It'd be $24.85M in dead cap, but again, they'd also avoid paying his $9.5M salary, a $500K bonus and a $10M roster bonus, a total of $20M saved. Financially very doable. That's why Spotrac has 2021 listed as a potential out for Stafford.

 

And you watch, if Stafford goes somewhere with a program that has a clue, he's going to unexplainably be better than he ever was when he was working in that dysfunctional Detroit environment. 

 

And if Stafford went to the Pats, he'd be going to a team that is going to have a sensational chance at picking up FAs to fill their many holes. The Pats optouts killed them this year but also put them in a much better situation for next year. They have the 4th most unused cap space this year ($25M), and they will roll it over into next year. In a year that looks like it will have very little money available for teams league-wide, the Pats will have plenty in a buyer's market. They'll be able to shore up receivers, TEs, and fill their holes about as well as anyone in the league.

 

Ah, well, if it's only $24.85M and not $25M...

 

Spotrac does that all the time.  But I can't recall the last time a team cut a player and took a $24.85M cap hit.  Much less a still-productive player like Stafford.  The Lions will have a new HC coming in and he'll likely want to see if he can build around Stafford, given the lack of options.  I also suspect the Lions would want a decent pick for Stafford, and the Cheaters would have to take over his contract. 

 

And no, the opt-outs didn't kill them: their offense did, starting with QB and then the skill positions, especially after Edelman went down.  Again they lost just Hightower, yet the defense was still dominating teams, because that's Belicheat's specialty. 

 

 

 

 

[ColoradoBills]

21 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Ah, well, if it's only $24.85M and not $25M...

 

Spotrac does that all the time.  But I can't recall the last time a team cut a player and took a $24.85M cap hit.  Much less a still-productive player like Stafford.  The Lions will have a new HC coming in and he'll likely want to see if he can build around Stafford, given the lack of options.  I also suspect the Lions would want a decent pick for Stafford, and the Cheaters would have to take over his contract. 

 

And no, the opt-outs didn't kill them: their offense did, starting with QB and then the skill positions, especially after Edelman went down.  Again they lost just Hightower, yet the defense was still dominating teams, because that's Belicheat's specialty. 

 

 

 

 

 

Great post Doc.  Yes their D will be pretty good still next year.  The O is a complete mystery.

I'm going to wait to see what happens with the Pats* UFAs this offseason especially on the O.

Joe Thuney and David Andrews jump out to me.  Will they stay or move on?

 

The "Patriots* Way" may be in trouble if they cannot get a QB, WR, TE and keep their excellent G and C.

 

 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

On 12/22/2020 at 8:34 AM, streetkings01 said:

They downplay the loss of Tom Brady.  They talk about the Patriots as if Brady was never there.  Watching GMF now and they have Scott Pioli there......he thinks the players opting out is what held them back this season and feels that a good draft and getting those players back will help the Patriots make another Super Bowl run.  After watching the Pats this season it's clear that Brady the bigger part of their success.  Not once have I seen someone in the media admit that the loss of Brady was huge for the Pats instead they seem to have felt the Pats were going to continue the Patriot way regardless if #12 was there.  I'm thinking it'll take next year when they go 9-7 at best before it really starts to sink in.

 

Personally I think BB was he bigger part of their success but the one way losing Brady did hurt more than they realized was in attracting mid level FA's that BB loved to sign.  Players would sign maybe even for less $$ as they knew with Brady, they'd have a shot at winning SB and for that would deal with BB's prison like atmosphere too.  No Brady, go sign elsewhere.  Couple that too with BB's track record in the draft the last ten years was not nearly as good as his first 10 years.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

On 12/22/2020 at 7:35 AM, DeltaDigital said:

Cam Newton is horrific. That's the only reason they suck. Much like buffalo during the drought. NO QB = Perpetual 7-9. I hope they choke on it. 

I agree, if they would’ve brought in a better QB that fit in that quick hitter system they might still be in the hunt. Newton seemed like the wrong fit right from the start. If someone asked me who is the complete opposite of Tom Brady I would answer Cam Newton in less than a second. 
 

Newton has maybe one potential job after the Patriots release him and that’s being Lamar Jackson’s back up. In that offense he might even be somewhat successful.

[Doc]

1 minute ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Personally I think BB was he bigger part of their success but the one way losing Brady did hurt more than they realized was in attracting mid level FA's that BB loved to sign.  Players would sign maybe even for less $$ as they knew with Brady, they'd have a shot at winning SB and for that would deal with BB's prison like atmosphere too.  No Brady, go sign elsewhere.  Couple that too with BB's track record in the draft the last ten years was not nearly as good as his first 10 years.

 

Without Brady, Belicheat has a losing record.  But without Belicheat, Brady probably doesn't win more than a SB, if even.

[DeltaDigital]

1 hour ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I agree, if they would’ve brought in a better QB that fit in that quick hitter system they might still be in the hunt. Newton seemed like the wrong fit right from the start. If someone asked me who is the complete opposite of Tom Brady I would answer Cam Newton in less than a second. 
 

Newton has maybe one potential job after the Patriots release him and that’s being Lamar Jackson’s back up. In that offense he might even be somewhat successful.

dudes arm is DONE. he should quit and be the victorias secret model he wants to be. 

 

[TwistofFate]

3 years since the arrival of Belichick the Patriots missed the playoffs. Three years Brady wasn't the Qb. 

 

Brady was New England. 

[GunnerBill]

9 hours ago, DeltaDigital said:

dudes arm is DONE. he should quit and be the victorias secret model he wants to be. 

 

 

Now that is a way to excite me on xmas morning.....

[Warcodered]

On 12/23/2020 at 5:47 AM, atlbillsfan1975 said:

NE fans are delusional, kind of like we were after Kelly hung it up. We thought we’d find another QB and be right back where we were. Belichick is an average drafter, and his way of doing things is turning guys off. Brady’s presence and “buy in” to Belichick’s process was a big part of the success. Look at Gronk, there is no big indication of how players feel than they would rather retire than play for Belichick. Belichick’s way isn’t fun, and now that he isn’t winning, it will become harder to attract vets looking for rings. 

Brady's buy in with his status in the league was a big help but more than anything winning is what's helped players put up with Belichick being tough on players. Without the winning I think people start to wonder more about why they're even putting up with this *****.