Matt_In_NH Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 Not a bad analysis but he seems to think Darnold would have “developed” with better coaching and Allen would Not have with different coaching situation. That is all speculation, it may be true but we can’t look at every qb and look at their success and then point to the coaching etc. don’t get me wrong the organization matters but even with a good organization it is not a sure thing ever. He was dead wrong on Allen like many were. Were they really even after last season? Passing stats maybe but total picture? One showed growth and one did not it in 2019. This is just another fan pontificating and confusing correlation and causation.
Captain Hindsight Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 Josh has so much drive and belief in himself, I think he would have been successful anywhere. Darnold is in a bad situation, but I'm not sure he is without blame 1
Doc Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 35 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said: The bloom was off the rose for Darnold starting in his final season at USC. Defenses had sort of figured him out and were already getting him to turn the ball over in bunches. I'm a UCLA guy and pretty much only watch Pac-12, and I was never high on Darnold and did not want the Bills to select him. I think in the right situation he could be a Nick Foles kind of guy, but that's pretty much it. It was off his sophomore season for me. For the reasons you mentioned.
Green Lightning Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 I feel bad for Darnold. Some team will get him for a song and develop him correctly and he'll be a solid starter. I just hope it isn't New England.
Doc Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Green Lightning said: I feel bad for Darnold. Some team will get him for a song and develop him correctly and he'll be a solid starter. I just hope it isn't New England. Doubtful. Again his problem is mental. And the Cheaters don't have some magical ability to make QBs better.
CincyBillsFan Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 My problem with this analysis is that it's creating a false narrative that Darnold would have worked out here and Allen would sucked in the Big Apple. To me this disrespects Allen's attitude and work ethic. It also ignores Allen's incredible physical gifts which clearly surpass those of Darnold. It also lets the crazy Allen haters off the hook. Hey we weren't wrong because Josh unfairly benefited from landing in football nirvana while Sam landed in hell. Well for the record I watched every Bills game in 2018 and whether we want to admit it or not it was a CLUSTER FRACK for a young QB needing development: * No offensive line * No QB coach and no veteran QB to help out until mid season. * Allen wasn't named the starter so didn't get many reps in training camp or preseason. Instead Peterman, maybe the worst QB to ever start an NFL game got the lions share of reps. * Then when Peterman screwed up, in the first half against Baltimore in WEEK ONE, Allen was thrown to the wolves. * And do you remember that elite group of WR's & TE's Allen had as safety blankets? Yea, I don't either. In 2018 Allen had the worst collection of skill players around him then any QB in the NFL that year. And in spite of all this Allen got better as the season went on and actually showed signs of the brilliance that was to come. I love Bean & McDermitt. I wouldn't trade them for anyone. But they screwed up Allen's rookie season BIG TIME. But against all odds Allen didn't shrivel up and bust. IMO Allen saved Bean & McDermitt's butts that year. Now in 2019 & 2020 all credit goes to Bean & McDermitt for developing Allen and putting the pieces around him so that the TEAM can succeed. But folks we have to see 2018 with honest eyes and the Bills are lucky they didn't "Rosen" Allen. And Allen should get more credit for that. 7 1
The Jokeman Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 4 hours ago, Aussie Joe said: Before the season started, in the face of overwhelming logic to the contrary, 99% of Jets fans were still doggedly saying that Darnold is better than JA.. Now they feel that they can change their tune when Darnold's replacement looms on the horizon... 2 3
Pokebball Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 23 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said: Josh has so much drive and belief in himself, I think he would have been successful anywhere. Darnold is in a bad situation, but I'm not sure he is without blame I agree. I think as much of Josh's Improvement and success is because of his neck up. 1
CincyBillsFan Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 I would also add that Allen didn't get the team behind him because of some great system that was in place in Buffalo in 2018. Allen earned the respect of his teammates when he hurdled a LB to get a first down against Minnesota. That one play, arising entirely from Allen's competitive nature won the team over. Do you think Darnold would have hurtled a LB like that? He doesn't have the crazy drive to do it and he didn't have the physical tools to do it. So the answer is no. 2
1ManRaid Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 4 hours ago, Aussie Joe said: Before the season started, in the face of overwhelming logic to the contrary, 99% of Jets fans were still doggedly saying that Darnold is better than JA.. Now they feel that they can change their tune when Darnold's replacement looms on the horizon... Only before the season? Allen was putting up MVP numbers and Jets fans were STILL saying it was a fluke and Darnold would be better if the bad New Jersey water wasn't triggering his residual mono symptoms and aliens and Mars in retrograde etc. As for Lawrence, you simply DO NOT tempt fate when you are already the #1 pick. YOU THREATEN TO HOLD OUT on the Jets if they don't either overhaul the front office/coaching or trade the pick. He can have his PR guy spin that attitude as a positive feature, caring about the long term success of the team and leadership.
BillsShredder83 Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 5 hours ago, Greg S said: I know the Jets suck but why go back to school and risk getting hurt. What if he has a bad year next season and isn't the #1 pick in 2022. To much $$$ to pass up. IMHO. I dont think the $ for that scenario is relevant since they changed the rookie pay grades a few years ago. In order to make the big boy bucks they gotta be successful and earn it on that first deal after rookie contract is over.
Lieutenant Aldo Raine Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 4 hours ago, Victory Formation said: Allen was a mess his rookie year.. Props to him, he bought into “The Process” and the rest is history.. Good coaching and a stable organization with GREAT OWNERS AND STAFF BENEFITTED HIM! I want to point out that I was flogged and beaten and slandered for having Allen as my #2 overall prospect in 2018 behind only Baker Mayfield. Get off me. I was his biggest fan on this board since 3 years ago. Lay off me. Many of you people just go with what’s hot at the moment and you miss out on the big picture. What you fail to realize is that the JETS organization is hot garbage and even if they DO draft Trevor Lawrence, HE WILL BE A BUST TOO. Go back to the draft threads from three years ago. I loved Allen before 99.9% of you. If he went to the Jets it would be over for him. Well, I’m that .01% that loved Allen before you. And if you knew anything about Allen, you wouldn’t say he would be out of league in 5 years, even if he played for the Jets or any other team. Yes, the Bills organization and process has a lot to do with his development, but his drive, leadership, raw talent, and ability to build upon his successes and failures has just as much to do with his progress. 1 1 1
batmanfreek Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 Josh is a gamer. He doesn’t like to lose. Wherever he might have landed he “could” be anywhere from Cutler to Farve with decent coaching. I don’t think he would be a Losman level. Aka a cannon with bad accuracy, could scramble decently, “wanted” to win but didn’t have the attitude. - tipsy take
BruceVilanch Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 8 hours ago, warrior9 said: The bolded is funny. You GENUINELY believe that Fields will be better in the NFL than all other QB's in this class? If I knew you in real life, I would bet my house against you with that. I don't think fields will be better, but how many people were wrong about a Josh Allen?
Chandler#81 Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 7 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said: I can't argue that the Bills front office has put Allen is a position to succeed and the Jets' front office has been inadequate in supporting Darnold's development. What I take issue with is that the guy doing the video above gives Josh Allen no credit for any of his improvement. His position is that the Bills made Allen, and while it's true that Beane, McDermott, Daboll, and Dorsey were all a part of the equation, the person most responsible for Josh Allen's success is... Josh Allen. That seems to get lost in the equation somewhere. Revamping the O-Line last year is not responsible for how Allen is now throwing the ball with touch and anticipation causing an almost 20% jump in his completion percentage from his rookie year. Bringing in Beasley and Brown is not responsible for Allen no longer playing Hero Ball causing turnovers and making cringe worthy plays weekly. Bringing in Diggs in not the reason Allen leads the entire NFL in 4th quarter winning drives and come from behind victories. There is just something in Josh Allen that drives him to succeed. Brandon Beane and the coaching staff didn't create that drive in him. Brown, Beasley, and Diggs didn't cause him to move and rent a house so he could be close to his QB coach during the off season so he could continue to work on his craft during the COVID pandemic. The revamped O-Line isn't the reason Josh is the first and last person in and out of the building everyday. Saying that the only difference between Darnold and Allen is the difference between the Jets and the Bills is overly simplistic and short changes the drive that Allen has to be the best QB he can be. Everyone says they want to be the best, very few have the drive to make that happen. Did Darnold get hosed going to the Jets? Absolutely. Would Allen find a way to get better and evolve no matter where he went? Absolutely. That is what the gentleman in the video above fails to acknowledge. It's time people start to acknowledge the simple truth, Josh Allen is the single biggest reason for Josh Allen's success. Bolded part is the factor this homer clown refuses to acknowledge. But thanks for the link OP. I LOVE finding new talking heads every day that I’ll never listen to again. 😉👍 1
Nihilarian Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 7 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said: I can't argue that the Bills front office has put Allen is a position to succeed and the Jets' front office has been inadequate in supporting Darnold's development. What I take issue with is that the guy doing the video above gives Josh Allen no credit for any of his improvement. His position is that the Bills made Allen, and while it's true that Beane, McDermott, Daboll, and Dorsey were all a part of the equation, the person most responsible for Josh Allen's success is... Josh Allen. That seems to get lost in the equation somewhere. Revamping the O-Line last year is not responsible for how Allen is now throwing the ball with touch and anticipation causing an almost 20% jump in his completion percentage from his rookie year. Bringing in Beasley and Brown is not responsible for Allen no longer playing Hero Ball causing turnovers and making cringe worthy plays weekly. Bringing in Diggs in not the reason Allen leads the entire NFL in 4th quarter winning drives and come from behind victories. There is just something in Josh Allen that drives him to succeed. Brandon Beane and the coaching staff didn't create that drive in him. Brown, Beasley, and Diggs didn't cause him to move and rent a house so he could be close to his QB coach during the off season so he could continue to work on his craft during the COVID pandemic. The revamped O-Line isn't the reason Josh is the first and last person in and out of the building everyday. Saying that the only difference between Darnold and Allen is the difference between the Jets and the Bills is overly simplistic and short changes the drive that Allen has to be the best QB he can be. Everyone says they want to be the best, very few have the drive to make that happen. Did Darnold get hosed going to the Jets? Absolutely. Would Allen find a way to get better and evolve no matter where he went? Absolutely. That is what the gentleman in the video above fails to acknowledge. It's time people start to acknowledge the simple truth, Josh Allen is the single biggest reason for Josh Allen's success. I whole heartedly agree. Although, all those other components have helped develop Allen into a top five QB we see today. Beane building around his QB. Diggs, Beasley, Brown and even Davis. Coaches. Offensive line upgrades. A somewhat decent run game that the Bills simply don't utilize enough for them to get into any kind of rhythm as it takes a lot of carries to wear out opposing defenses. 2018 Buffalo leading receiver with 56 receptions WR Zay Jones is now a 4th string Raider. He caught like 54% of his targets. Kelvin Benjamin caught near 30% of his targets and is now washing car windows in some city. TE Charles Clay is somewhere helping Benjamin. Only guy still around from Allen's first season is Isaiah McKenzie. Robert Foster, Andre Holmes, Logan Thomas, Marcus Murphy, Ray Ray McCloud, Jason Croom...poof. I gotta admit it that I wasn't sold on Bills OC Brian Daboll at all. But, I now think Allen has grown into running his offense. Daboll has learned and grown as an NFL OC right along with Allen. Last years Ravens game the Bills had no answer for all the blitzing, 50% to start and they stepped it up to 65% when the saw Buffalo couldn't stop them. This past game against the #1 Steeler defense with a top pass rush the Bills made adjustments at the half that allowed Allen to do his thing...only one sack and a mostly clean pocket vs 6 sacks and harnessed all game against Baltimore. It's a team game...and man what a team! 8 hours ago, Victory Formation said: Darnold would have been a better QB had he went to Buffalo but his ceiling would have been nowhere near what Allen’s is.. Allen would have been out of the league in 5 years had he went to the Jets.. Maybe Darnold would’ve been a fringe top 10 QB here.. maybe.. I highly doubt that. I would have dreaded Allen going anywhere other than Buffalo... Cleveland, NY, Arizona as I still think he would have developed into a good QB anyplace. Lord, If he had fallen to Baltimore like Jackson... 1
Buffalo716 Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 10 hours ago, MAJBobby said: I do, put him on a team that builds around him you have another Josh Allen. Watch. Than again whoever the Jets draft at QB I will not care to much they will kill him as well. Lawrence has as much athleticism as Justin fields honestly
TUBSTER Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 11 hours ago, jeremy2020 said: Not many teams picking 1st overall are a 'good' situation. If you notice, he said "A better situation." I have to agree with both of you. A team picking first overall isn't going to be a good situation, but almost anywhere is better than playing for the Jets 🤣
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 7 hours ago, Doc said: Doubtful. Again his problem is mental. And the Cheaters don't have some magical ability to make QBs better. Oh yeah?! Just a few PSIs out of the ball can work wonders for a fellow...😁
Gigs Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 14 hours ago, Greg S said: I know the Jets suck but why go back to school and risk getting hurt. What if he has a bad year next season and isn't the #1 pick in 2022. To much $$$ to pass up. IMHO. Andrew Luck Plus he might not win the Natty so he may just go back for another.
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