GunnerBill Posted December 17, 2020 Posted December 17, 2020 44 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said: Funny how so many people are questioning this news, ignoring the fact that white retreads like Gase and McCarthy keep getting more chances to fail. In fairness McCarthy was a Superbowl winning Head Coach. Now we can argue about his legacy in Green Bay but that is a fact. I do think in general it is harder to get a 2nd shot as a black Head Coach but I just think when you take all things into account for Leslie a white guy in the same position wouldn't get hired either. 1
Billy Claude Posted December 17, 2020 Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) On 12/15/2020 at 12:50 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think Frazier deserves another chance at HC more than many who have gotten it. On 12/15/2020 at 1:55 PM, FUTURIST said: Really? Name one. Black head coaches can be just as bad as white head coaches. There is no discrimination when it comes to bad head coaches. I am not saying that Frazier deserves another opportunity and I don't think he even wants to be HC but really? You can't name one? Are we forgetting Adam Gase already? If we just consider NY/NJ related coaches, how about Dick Jauron, Mike Mularkey, Doug Marrone, Rex Ryan, and Pat Shumur? Edited December 17, 2020 by Billy Claude
Mark Long Beach Posted December 17, 2020 Posted December 17, 2020 I think people underestimate how good a coach Leslie is. He's a very, very good DC and similarly good human being. I really enjoy his listening to his interviews. While I agree that he's not likely to get another shot as HC though for the reasons listed by GunnerBill, It would hurt to lose him more than people think. He's a strong contributor to our locker room character. IIRC, didn't McDermitt get hired late enough that most of his staff hires was from the leftovers? I seem to recall reading articles that his first choices had all been hired elsewhere and he had to settle for assistants more than he wanted. 1
Billy Claude Posted December 17, 2020 Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Mark Long Beach said: I think people underestimate how good a coach Leslie is. He's a very, very good DC and similarly good human being. I really enjoy his listening to his interviews. While I agree that he's not likely to get another shot as HC though for the reasons listed by GunnerBill, It would hurt to lose him more than people think. He's a strong contributor to our locker room character. IIRC, didn't McDermitt get hired late enough that most of his staff hires was from the leftovers? I seem to recall reading articles that his first choices had all been hired elsewhere and he had to settle for assistants more than he wanted. I don't know where Frazier was on the list but it was widely reported that Dennison was his third choice for OC with Mike McCoy being his top choice. Edited December 17, 2020 by Billy Claude
GunnerBill Posted December 17, 2020 Posted December 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, Billy Claude said: I don't know where Frazier was on the list but it was widely reported that Dennison was his third choice for OC. Frazier was his first choice I believe. I think he was his second hire after Juan Castillo who was his very first hire as OL / Run Game Coordinator. If I remember right for OC his first choice was Mike McCoy (who has been fired after less than a season by two teams since then) and his second choice was Brad Childress who decided to take a half promotion to Assistant Head Coach and stay in KC. 50 minutes ago, Billy Claude said: I am not saying that Frazier deserves another opportunity and I don't think he even wants to be HC but really? You can't name one? Are we forgetting Adam Gase already? If we just consider NY/NJ related coaches, how about Dick Jauron, Mike Mularkey, Doug Marrone, Rex Ryan, and Pat Shumur? Mularkey and Shurmer especially. I can see why Marrone got a 2nd crack and to an extent Dickie J and Rex as well. But Mularkey and Shurmer made no sense to me.
Billy Claude Posted December 17, 2020 Posted December 17, 2020 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Frazier was his first choice I believe. I think he was his second hire after Juan Castillo who was his very first hire as OL / Run Game Coordinator. If I remember right for OC his first choice was Mike McCoy (who has been fired after less than a season by two teams since then) and his second choice was Brad Childress who decided to take a half promotion to Assistant Head Coach and stay in KC. Mularkey and Shurmer especially. I can see why Marrone got a 2nd crack and to an extent Dickie J and Rex as well. But Mularkey and Shurmer made no sense to me. The Gase and Mularkey hires were a complete shock to me. Gase for some reason has great relations with the owners and almost no-one else.
GunnerBill Posted December 17, 2020 Posted December 17, 2020 39 minutes ago, Billy Claude said: The Gase and Mularkey hires were a complete shock to me. Gase for some reason has great relations with the owners and almost no-one else. Yea I wouldn't have hired Gase in Miami. Let alone in New York. Never thought he came across as a Head Coach.
JoPoy88 Posted December 17, 2020 Posted December 17, 2020 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: In fairness McCarthy was a Superbowl winning Head Coach. Now we can argue about his legacy in Green Bay but that is a fact. I do think in general it is harder to get a 2nd shot as a black Head Coach but I just think when you take all things into account for Leslie a white guy in the same position wouldn't get hired either. A long time ago. My stance on him is fair or not, by the end of his time in GB he was actively making himself look foolish and well past his sell by date. Rodgers resurgence under LaFleur only underscores my view. And yet MM gets a chance to coach a very popular NFL franchise with one of the best young QBs in the game? Yeah nah. MM is trash.
GunnerBill Posted December 17, 2020 Posted December 17, 2020 1 hour ago, JoPoy88 said: A long time ago. My stance on him is fair or not, by the end of his time in GB he was actively making himself look foolish and well past his sell by date. Rodgers resurgence under LaFleur only underscores my view. And yet MM gets a chance to coach a very popular NFL franchise with one of the best young QBs in the game? Yeah nah. MM is trash. I agree he is not good. But it is hard to get angry about a guy who has a ring getting a 2nd shot. 1
BillsShredder83 Posted December 17, 2020 Posted December 17, 2020 On 12/15/2020 at 12:24 PM, TBBills said: Not worried about him McDermott is the brains of the defense. Even more reason to not be upset if he does get a HC position. Id gladly send him out for the 3rd rounder. You just know whoever the DC is on a McD staff, is taking alit of direct orders voluntarily/involuntarily from coach. I think we can get really good DC'ing out of most decent applicants, that's our specialty.
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted December 17, 2020 Posted December 17, 2020 I would hate to see Frazier leave, he is a good DC, his play calling can sometimes be head scratching but that is his only real weakness. I think where he excels is in practice, his ability to develop the Secondary, LB's and to some extent DL. What he is teaching these young players and even FA pickups is sinking in and sticking. We are beginning to get a reputation of when you come to Buffalo you will improve as a player and a person. That is a big credit to our coaching staff, I believe that great HC's are very good at delegating tasks to their OC's and DC's and trusting in them to complete the tasks. Frazier and Daboll make McD's job so much easier, we are lucky to have this current coaching staff and I hope they stay together because the future of this team is blinding bright.
Don Otreply Posted December 17, 2020 Posted December 17, 2020 By the way, is Frazier aware of this.... 😆
Brianmoorman4jesus Posted December 18, 2020 Posted December 18, 2020 I would absolutely love it if he got a HC job. Let Mcd get his hands entirely on this defense. Up the aggression and take this team to a whole new level.
klos63 Posted December 18, 2020 Posted December 18, 2020 On 12/15/2020 at 9:36 AM, Royale with Cheese said: Good for Frazier. Since I think McDermott controls the defense, I won't worry about losing Frazier. What do you think Frazier does?
QLBillsFan Posted December 18, 2020 Posted December 18, 2020 17 hours ago, GunnerBill said: In fairness McCarthy was a Superbowl winning Head Coach. Now we can argue about his legacy in Green Bay but that is a fact. I do think in general it is harder to get a 2nd shot as a black Head Coach but I just think when you take all things into account for Leslie a white guy in the same position wouldn't get hired either. Hmm I think in this era with Rooney rule and the whole crazy draft choice thing it should be easier for LF then say Dennis Allen in NO. Just not sure LF has the splash appeal of other candidates who are younger regardless of race. So think it’s more that than his race.
GunnerBill Posted December 18, 2020 Posted December 18, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, QLBillsFan said: Hmm I think in this era with Rooney rule and the whole crazy draft choice thing it should be easier for LF then say Dennis Allen in NO. Just not sure LF has the splash appeal of other candidates who are younger regardless of race. So think it’s more that than his race. I think Dennis Allen will get interviews this year. But to be clear I have never argued it is about race with Leslie. It is about being a 61 year old, defensive, retread with an under .500 career HC record and a low key personality. Not sure how you sell him to a fanbase. My point about race is that overall think it probably has been slightly harder for black retreads. Someone like Todd Bowles will be an interesting case study. If he keeps the Tampa defense balling another year or two does he get another look? Edited December 18, 2020 by GunnerBill 3
Billy Claude Posted December 18, 2020 Posted December 18, 2020 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: I think Dennis Allen will get interviews this year. But to be clear I have never argued it is about race with Leslie. It is about being a 61 year old, defensive, retread with an under .500 career HC record and a low key personality. Not sure how you sell him to a fanbase. My point about race is that overall think it probably has been slightly harder for black retreads. Someone like Todd Bowles will be an interesting case study. If he keeps the Tampa defense balling another year or two does he get another look? Yes, I absolutely agree -- other factors play a much larger role in him not getting another HC opportunity. His record with the Vikings was worse than I thought (.400) although it was impressive that he got into playoffs with Christian Ponder as his QB even if he had prime Adrian Peterson. He also doesn't give the impression he is that interested in being a head coach. If he wanted it out there that he was looking he wouldn't have turned down a Rooney interview last year.
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