Billsfan1972 Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: 19 turnover worthy plays doesn't seem like a high number for Allen. He's fumbled the ball 7 times and most were just poor ball security. He's thrown 8 INTs. 1-2 were definitely not bad throws off the top of my head. I wouldn't get too worked up over this stat, but it seems pretty accurate. I see a whole lot with more Ints. then Allen. I guess their's however were not "Turnover Worthy"? https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/table/passing/sort/interceptions/dir/desc I can also think 2 right off the top Diggs (who ran the wrong route) and Isaiah McKenzie vs. Tenn (off his chest) that weren't Josh's fault. Sure there were others. Shall we check Fumbles too? https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/fumbles Very quick Wilson, Goff, Jackson, Cousins, Brady & Murray are all ahead of Allen..... Where are they on the list????🙄 Edited December 12, 2020 by Billsfan1972
JGMcD2 Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 12 hours ago, Big Blitz said: And continue to find (make up) stats to trash Allen It's almost parody at this point 19 actually makes sense... it’s what I’d expect from Josh, really. It’s the type of player he is... the fumbles that he recovers on sacks go into this. I’d like to see the rest of the list... I’d be surprised if there aren’t a bunch of QBs right around there at 17 or 16.
Cruiserplayer Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 2 hours ago, TH3 said: PFF...meh...JA and Mahomes are 1-2 in ability to make something good to unbelievable happen at anytime....JA's TD throw with 40 seconds left at AZ says it all...2-3 qb's can make that throw at that time Score that! Being only a couple guys can make that throw it counts as turnover worthy. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: So, it's bad, and it's about Allen, so it must be wrong. I see how this works. Makes total sense. Excellent arguments, all around, on this thread. Not one person has addressed the substance, yet panties are bunched. I mean, no offense intended, but isn't this the same in reverse from you? It's not like you're addressing the substance either Quote To be fair, I loved this comment: "Does he get one less for the LAR Kroft catch?" Fair point. Wonder how that was graded. It wasn't graded as an "interceptable ball" because it was an actual interception. Same with the NE game where Diggs acknowledges it was "on him" because he didn't do what Josh expected in that Look, here's the crux of problem: Want to address the substance? OK....Wait, I can't. I have no idea how, in practice, PFF defines an "interceptable ball". None of us do, unless we're former PFF graders. The details of the grading definitions they use are proprietary. There are some throws that I doubt any of us would have a problem calling "interceptable". They may have been actually IN the DB's hands, and dropped. There were something like 3 of these in the Cardinals game and maybe a couple in the Jets. On the other hand, there are throws where (like Collinsworth said last year) "that should have been an interception" where we're all like "huh?" because we know Josh can get that ball in there well before the DB arrives. The ball was never in "harm's way". It's either caught or OOB. Let's look at the plays they're calling "interceptable" - game, time, down and distance, and decide how many of those we agree with. Oh, Wait, we can't do that either - that list isn't public. So let's summarize. PFF has a stat, "interceptable balls" which Allen is poor at, but we can't address the substance because neither the specific criteria nor the actual throws in question are available to the public. I have a problem with that, and it doesn't involve "bunched panties", it involves the idea that statistics should represent objective criteria that are transparent to all how they're derived, ie "showing your work" (or the lack thereof) Quote Allen's been terrific. PFF acknowledges that. Playing well can sometimes be accompanied by a bad stat here or there. It's not a statistic, is my point. It's one of these made up pseudo-objective analytical numbers with opaque criteria. 1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said: I see a whole lot with more Ints. then Allen. I guess their's however were not "Turnover Worthy"? https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/table/passing/sort/interceptions/dir/desc No, they're not - the whole point PFF is trying to capture is whether a QB is regularly "putting the ball in harm's way" and being bailed out by the bad hands of DBs. So actual interceptions don't count as "interceptable balls" That's just one of my whole problems with the thing. Once we start looking at (and grading) plays that didn't actually occur, what else do you look at? Do we adjust the actual interceptions lower for "catchable balls" like the Kroft catch that was inexplicably ruled an INT, or the ricochet off Roberts that wasn't a perfect throw, but coulda been caught? Do we adjust for acknowledged route miscues, where the WR and QB aren't on the same page and the WR says "on me", like the NE pick? How about adjusting the QB's completion percentage for "catchable balls" where the receiver dropped 'em? Do we do that? Do we adjust for where the receiver could have made a simple route adjustment, like Smith could have sat on his route across the back of the endzone there as Allen motioned him to, and been in position to catch the ball? Once you start to create numerical criteria around events which actually didn't occur, but could have, maybe even should have - where do you stop? To me, you stop with what actually happened. Quote I can also think 2 right off the top Diggs (who ran the wrong route) and Isaiah McKenzie vs. Tenn (off his chest) that weren't Josh's fault. That was Andre Roberts, not 'Lil Dirty. 1
Billsfan1972 Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 Of course someone will point out that these are on top of the turnovers already made. Please I'd like to see each one and would be curious about other QB's and plays that were not turnover worthy. Again 11th week 2 and 6th week 13 says it all..... Week 13 was almost perfect and want to understand how he was so low.
The Wiz Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 3 hours ago, John from Riverside said: It’s just totally obvious that Josh Allen has broken PFF’s matrix system and they don’t know what to do about it
Buffalo_Stampede Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said: I see a whole lot with more Ints. then Allen. I guess their's however were not "Turnover Worthy"? https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/table/passing/sort/interceptions/dir/desc I can also think 2 right off the top Diggs (who ran the wrong route) and Isaiah McKenzie vs. Tenn (off his chest) that weren't Josh's fault. Sure there were others. Shall we check Fumbles too? https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/fumbles Very quick Wilson, Goff, Jackson, Cousins, Brady & Murray are all ahead of Allen..... Where are they on the list????🙄 Its a subjective stat. No need to get worked up over it. Looking at Allen alone the number looks pretty close to what I would guess. But like I said earlier Allen handles the football more than most QB's because he runs and throws a lot. He has passed or run nearly 200 more times than Lock. Lock is by far worse than Allen in this stat but the way its ranked makes Allen look worse.
Weatherman Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 I wonder how many “Turnover Worthy Plays” HOF QB Brett Favre averaged during his career. PFF = The Onion of the NFL
Mr. K Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 13 hours ago, Big Blitz said: And continue to find (make up) stats to trash Allen It's almost parody at this point F*** em
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said: Collinworthless.....says it all Oh, Come. He seems like a nice enough guy if you overlook his long-ago creepy and cringe-worthy comments about liking underage teens who aren't too smart and his fixation on PFF. I enjoyed his comment about meeting Allen for the first time to interview him before the Steelers last year, and how Allen "slid" into the doorway imitating how Collinsworth slides into SNF and Allen was giggling and Collinsworth was "I See That...get your butt in here" (about 19:30) He said "in some weird way, Daboll reminds me of Allen..." which I thought was funny but potentially insightful...said that they both have an upbeat personality and they enjoy what they're doing, and that they now have a symbiotic relationship. 2 hours ago, JGMcD2 said: 19 actually makes sense... it’s what I’d expect from Josh, really. It’s the type of player he is... the fumbles that he recovers on sacks go into this. I’d like to see the rest of the list... I’d be surprised if there aren’t a bunch of QBs right around there at 17 or 16. There are a couple guys here who subscribe to PFF - maybe they'll help a bro 1
JGMcD2 Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: That was Andre Roberts, not 'Lil Dirty. Haha I love that ‘Lil Dirty is public knowledge now... cracks me up.
Don Otreply Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 7 hours ago, hemma said: Almost time for New Year's resolutions. I have decided I will not click anything that could, in any way, improve Chris Collinsworth's net worth. Welcome to the club, 👍 “now there’s a guy” I will not support! I haven’t clicked on that trash in well over a year, they offer nothing I can’t get from many other sports programs, without all the make believe nonsense. Go Bills!!!
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 It’s so weird how so many of you hate PFF yet constantly make threads about it.
Billsfan1972 Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 56 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: It’s so weird how so many of you hate PFF yet constantly make threads about it. It's not hating PFF, it's laughing at their made up metrics. If someone can pleas explain how Josh Allen was 6th week 13 by PFF, I'd like to hear it and see the measurments/scoring (and no Moss fumbled the ball and was benched because of it).
Don Otreply Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 10 hours ago, jeremy2020 said: How do you not get this by now? PFF's goal isn't 'accurate statistics'... it's attention. Guess what they get with people getting their britches in a knot every time they say so and so isn't good? You literally did their job for them. So guess what you will get more of? More of them saying Allen is bad because fools will rush to post that **** all over the internet every single time they say it. Only helps them if ya click on their crap, no click, no revenue,
ColoradoBills Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 This seals it for me. I'm not even going to watch the Sunday Night game!
Milanos Milano Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 10 hours ago, John from Riverside said: It’s just totally obvious that Josh Allen has broken PFF’s matrix system and they don’t know what to do about it Well let’s hope he’s our Neo.
HardyBoy Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 17 hours ago, TUBSTER said: Le Batard and Bomani Jones are two of the most arrogant guys when it comes to talking about Josh. I remember the words they used were "Allen should apologize to us for making us think he was that bad. It's not our fault he didn't play well." If you can't make a good prediction about someone, at least man up to your mistake. You don't get the show
Malazan Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Don Otreply said: Only helps them if ya click on their crap, no click, no revenue, What do you think happens when someone gets their panties in a knot and runs to post their latest article for the outrage? People click on it.
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