Kubiak on Bills-49ers

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, LeGOATski said:

Actually, it's still all fun and games. 😉

 

Ah.  I was not having fun myself at that point.  The dog was concerned for my mental health and hygeine.

[NoSaint]

24 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Hahaha Well.  Be honest now, aren't you?  That's not to say I think it's probable...just more possible.

 

Who was it who was talking about a reception Lee made in his first stint with the Bills where he had a blocker who asked "I had him blocked, why did you run OOB?  Why didn't you cut and go upfield?" and Smith replied "I Don't Cut".

 

I actually have a lot of sympathy for the "can we be done with Lee Smith?" thread and it would make me happy if we never saw Lee Smith running a route again, I'm just realistic to what the team appears to think of him.

 

At least Bates pals with Sweeney and is in the same room with Dawkins and Mongo and stuff, guys who think of themselves as slim fast WR in a "Big Man" suit.  That Croom video from Florida of Dawkins undressing McKenzie on successive pass plays is classic.

i am possibly the loudest advocate (and have been for years) of just letting your swing tackle or most athletic depth guy be a 6th lineman instead of trotting out a guy like Lee smith. 
 

gets them live nfl blocking reps, almost always a better blocker for the 95% of the role and if in the 5% of pass targets you can coach then up

even a little you aren’t sacrificing much I’m that (distantly) secondary role... and buys you an extra roster spot since they have another function

 

its not perfect but a ton of pluses and very limited downside (you use a different TE in that role if the lineman is forced to their position due to injury or limit a few plays in the play calling)

[ProcessAccepted]

2 hours ago, dneveu said:

The big thing on that 2nd and 12 thing to me isn't just the pass pro.  It's the trajectory.  It wasn't a fastball, it wasn't a high pass, it was where it needed to be.  If there were invisibile tires hanging in the air with the perfect throw going through all of them - he threw it through all of them.  Perfect touch, perfect velocity to not get defended.

I heard numerous former QBs comment on that throw. They all say the reason you don't see other QBs throw that ball in that situation is because they are not able to. There's only 2 or 3 QBs in the league that can make that throw.  

[Warcodered]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Oh....and wtf is a "slack channel"?  Methinks you're ginned up on this social media stuff....

Some sort of chat where everyone is wearing these?

[CSBill]

1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

They are not activating Kroft over Gilliam because Gilliam gives them special teams plays.  It just is not happening. Gilliam is on this team for special teams and they are not benching him for guys that can’t play teams.

 

Therefore - you have Smith, Kroft, and Knox and the Bills are playing 2 of the 3 - this allows the extra WRs so they can spread the field.

 

I have no issue sitting Smith and having Knox and Kroft available, but the 2 of them are very similar in technique and what they provide.  Smith is the odd TE out because of his big frame and blocking and what it presents to a defense.

 

What I don’t know is if they get the same look if that is Kroft over Smith on the goal line, but then again you get a more polished receiver against smaller coverage guys maybe.

 

 

Gilliam also fills the fullback role when they need, it is not unusual to see him in the backfield on short yardage plays. Gilliam is the poster-boy for the kind of versatility that the Bills management loves. He will stay on the game day squad.

[Logic]

I'm certainly no Kubiak , but I thought that this was without a doubt the best game of Josh Allen's career.

I went back and re-watched the game and was even more blown away than when I watched it live.

Allen's game was just short of perfect. His command, poise, comfort, pocket movement, accuracy, decision making -- everything was working. The thing that impressed me most about the game was that there were 6 or 7 off-script plays that just made my jaw drop, and those were IN ADDITION TO all the great plays Josh made within the structure of the play-call. That is to say: Allen ran the offense with precision and effectiveness for the majority of the game, but on the hand-full of occasions where the 49ers had exactly the right defensive playcall, it didn't matter, because Allen found a way to improvise and move the chains anyway. That, to me is next level, elite 2020 quarterbacking. A decent amount of QBs in the league can run their offenses really well, but the ones who can beat you even when you've theoretically beaten THEM on a given play -- those are the elite few. Against the 49ers, Allen was every bit the unbeatable, modern, improvisatory master quarterback of the modern NFL era. 

I couldn't have been more impressed with his game on Monday night. It was really high level stuff. I might just gave to sign up for the Buffalo News so I can read Kubiak's post-game reports from throughout the year. @Hapless Bills Fan, do you happen to know if his Allen writeups from past games this year are archived and still available to read?

[CSBill]

58 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

i am possibly the loudest advocate (and have been for years) of just letting your swing tackle or most athletic depth guy be a 6th lineman instead of trotting out a guy like Lee smith. 
 

gets them live nfl blocking reps, almost always a better blocker for the 95% of the role and if in the 5% of pass targets you can coach then up

even a little you aren’t sacrificing much I’m that (distantly) secondary role... and buys you an extra roster spot since they have another function

 

its not perfect but a ton of pluses and very limited downside (you use a different TE in that role if the lineman is forced to their position due to injury or limit a few plays in the play calling)

 

interesting point

 

[NoSaint]

31 minutes ago, CSBill said:

 

interesting point

 

And I’ll concede if the TE is a real pass catcher it changes the equation there but if he’s an old school blocker near exclusively just push the chips in with a guy like bates instead.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, ProcessAccepted said:

I heard numerous former QBs comment on that throw. They all say the reason you don't see other QBs throw that ball in that situation is because they are not able to. There's only 2 or 3 QBs in the league that can make that throw.  

 

Too slow and its easily defended by the safety, too hard and its picked by the underneath LB.  Even remotely behind and its broken up too.  

[ColoradoBills]

4 hours ago, TPS said:

I think Dabol has used the tackle eligible too much.  I called it out when they lined up. If I knew it, the 49ers darn sure knew it. I also think he's trying to stay away from designed runs by Josh because of his injuries.  Minor quibbles ...

 

I fully expect Josh to run when it counts, in the playoffs.

It's almost like they are removing that from the tape to save it for then.

[TPS]

7 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I fully expect Josh to run when it counts, in the playoffs.

It's almost like they are removing that from the tape to save it for then.

I agree with the first point. I don't know about  second, as there is certainly enough tape going back to last year.  Don't take any unnecessary risks until it matters most. On the other hand, for this week at least, if the Steelers play a lot of man, and they are weak at LB, I can see Dabol telling Josh to take advantage of it when it's there.

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by TPS

[ColoradoBills]

Just now, TPS said:

I agree with the first opint. I don't know about  second, as there is certainly enough tape going back to last year.  Don't take any unnecessary risks until then it matters most. On the other hand, for this week at least, if the Steelers play a lot of man, and they are weak at LB, I can see Dabol telling Josh to take advantage of it when it's there.

 

 

Agree about this week against the Steelers.

As to the other comment.  I know every team has tape on Josh running but the less it's being used in the recent tapes well the less tape there is on it.

 

I also refuse to believe that the coaches and players are not aware that a win against the Steelers gives them real hope in winning out.

They will put it on the line this Sunday night.  If that happens the #2 seed is a real possibility and maybe with some help the #1.

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, Logic said:

Allen's game was just short of perfect. His command, poise, comfort, pocket movement, accuracy, decision making -- everything was working. The thing that impressed me most about the game was that there were 6 or 7 off-script plays that just made my jaw drop, and those were IN ADDITION TO all the great plays Josh made within the structure of the play-call. That is to say: Allen ran the offense with precision and effectiveness for the majority of the game, but on the hand-full of occasions where the 49ers had exactly the right defensive playcall, it didn't matter, because Allen found a way to improvise and move the chains anyway

 

Exactly this. This game was similar to what Mahomes does in his best games. He makes a couple jaw dropping passes but in between those he's consistently making good reads and throws that keep the offense moving. Allen had a couple perfect swing passes to Singletary for easy yards and for me that's just as impressive as the ridiculous throws he can make. When he came into the league he could already make the ridiculous throws, it's the easy stuff that he was missing. It's a blast watching it all come together.

[Shaw66]

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

He agrees, Josh's best game of the season

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/jim-kubiak-josh-allen-provides-window-into-his-future-with-astounding-game-against-niners/article_b3101a86-39c0-11eb-bf05-af4df9189902.html

 

FWIW @Shaw66 (think that was you), Kubiak saw Smith's route the same way I did.  Note the hand motions Josh makes with his L hand just before he throws:

 

The drive ended on a failed 4th-and-goal attempt in which Allen had the right idea, but tight end Lee Smith was not able to adjust his route soon enough.  Offensive coordinator Brian Daboll wanted to make it look as if the Bills were going to run the football with his use of jumbo personnel. Tackle Ryan Bates was eligible to Allen’s left, and tight ends Reggie Gilliam, Dawson Knox and Smith were on Allen’s right. Daboll wanted to create flow to the right and then attack to the left side of the field with Bates and Smith. The 49ers’ defense did not take the bait on the play-action and were waiting in position for Buffalo’s crossers. 

Smith was tasked with trying to sneak behind the linebackers, but Dre Greenlaw was waiting. Smith could have settled in the open area before getting to Greenlaw for an easy touchdown, but instead ran across, directly into the waiting defender. 

 

Allen saw Greenlaw and wanted Smith to slow down or stop in the open area. Smith, however, continued his route and was running to be covered. Allen tried to throw the football to the safe area behind Smith, where he wanted him to settle, but Smith was unable to rein it in. The Bills turned the ball over on downs.

 

I "get it" that Lee Smith is by far the better blocker than Kroft or Knox and that probably the decision to bench one of them and activate Smith emerged from the Bills "deep dive" into "what the @#%$ is wrong with the run game?" during the bye, but I wish Daboll wouldn't design plays where Smith and Bates are the receiving options.   Bates might, but it just seems improbable that Smith will adjust his receiving game at this point.

 

Kubiak loves that seemingly risky throw to Davis:

On second-and-12 from the Niners’ 32-yard line, Allen found Davis with perhaps his best throw of the season. Allen had a three-receiver concept to his left. Davis was the outside receiver, Stefon Diggs was in the slot and tight end Knox had motioned across to that side. Daboll was attempting to flood the left side of the field. Diggs' job was to run the seam, either as a viable option in Cover 3 or to clear the area out against man or Cover 4 zone coverage. Davis was tasked with a dig route, flashing underneath Diggs. Knox had motioned across to run a wheel route to the outside of Davis. This was a terrific concept design, as well as an incredible delivery by Allen.

Allen was able to read the defense, anticipate where Davis would be and get the football over linebacker Fred Warner, who was dropping into his zone. The ball traveled over Warner’s outstretched hands and into the reception area where only Davis could make the catch. This was a sensational completion that was built on timing, great technique and that velocity that only Allen has.

 

I'd like to add the point that for throws like this, the difference between a successful completion and an incompletion (at best) or a pick, is just that extra fraction of a second of pass protection for Allen in the pocket.  Allen didn't get that last week.  This week, he did.

 

Oh yeah one more thing:  That TD pass to Dawson Knox?  Kubiak says it was an RPO with DE Arik Armstead as the conflict defender. Apparently Daboll hasn't read the book about not running an RPO with a DE as the conflict defender.

 

Anyway, Kubiak not only knows football, he watches enough that he knows the tendencies of the vet players, and he puts that knowledge in there (example: comments on Sherman's coverage tendencies).  IMO this is great stuff and for the Bills fan, well worth the subscription price (I think they're currently running a special), if you don't already get it, check it out.  Full Disclosure: I have absolutely no association whatsoever with TBN, I just find this guy's stuff really worthwhile.

wasn't me.   I don't know what this discussion is about. 

[BobbyC81]

8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

He agrees, Josh's best game of the season

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/jim-kubiak-josh-allen-provides-window-into-his-future-with-astounding-game-against-niners/article_b3101a86-39c0-11eb-bf05-af4df9189902.html

 

Kubiak loves that seemingly risky throw to Davis:

On second-and-12 from the Niners’ 32-yard line, Allen found Davis with perhaps his best throw of the season. Allen had a three-receiver concept to his left. Davis was the outside receiver, Stefon Diggs was in the slot and tight end Knox had motioned across to that side. Daboll was attempting to flood the left side of the field. Diggs' job was to run the seam, either as a viable option in Cover 3 or to clear the area out against man or Cover 4 zone coverage. Davis was tasked with a dig route, flashing underneath Diggs. Knox had motioned across to run a wheel route to the outside of Davis. This was a terrific concept design, as well as an incredible delivery by Allen.

Allen was able to read the defense, anticipate where Davis would be and get the football over linebacker Fred Warner, who was dropping into his zone. The ball traveled over Warner’s outstretched hands and into the reception area where only Davis could make the catch. This was a sensational completion that was built on timing, great technique and that velocity that only Allen has.

 

I'd like to add the point that for throws like this, the difference between a successful completion and an incompletion (at best) or a pick, is just that extra fraction of a second of pass protection for Allen in the pocket.  Allen didn't get that last week.  This week, he did.

 

The replay of that pass from the end zone camera was awesome.

 

The pass protection at times this season has been unbelievable.  Josh has time to go thru all his progressions not only once but twice. Several times I’ve rewound plays to see how much time he had before throwing or running and it has been 7 to 9 seconds. 

[Doc]

3 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

I fully expect Josh to run when it counts, in the playoffs.

It's almost like they are removing that from the tape to save it for then.

 

They might not have wanted him to run/scramble after getting dinged by Bosa last weekend.

[YattaOkasan]

12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Now that I read it again, it's possible that Kubiak meant it's designed to *look* like an RPO but it actually isn't.

 

The difference between a screen play designed to look like a fake RPO and an RPO is getting WAAAAAAAAY beyond my abilities to distinguish

 

Oh....and wtf is a "slack channel"?  Methinks you're ginned up on this social media stuff....

I agree I was very surprised he thought it was just a straight screen (handoff fake was very convincing). 
 

Slack is just a messaging tool sorta like TBD.  Cover1 has one for members. It’s ways more chaotic (no threads just non stop stream of consciousness). I like some partition also some really good folks here between gunner and bandit and others. 

10 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

 

surprised you posted back. Also to make sure it’s clear I don’t think we should cut lee smith or anything. I just don’t think he’s a weapon and I would prefer to see some better weapons out there going forward. In the 49ers game he was causing me anxiety at the start. Obviously it was very fun once we started rolling but he had me sweating early (on a related note does anyone know how to find by quarter snap counts)

Edited December 12, 2020 by YattaOkasan